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FORUMS General Gear Talk Changing Camera Brands 
Thread started 05 Nov 2018 (Monday) 18:05
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Color Science - Everyone hates Fuji lol, a test between Sony, Canon, Nikon, and Fuji

 
AlanU
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Nov 10, 2018 11:26 |  #76

bobbyz wrote in post #18748047 (external link)
Jeffrey - You need to shoot a ship a mile away and a bear close by to see the differences.:)

Man I love this forum! very funny bobby.

No Bobby you need to use a small sensor MF bulky camera with slow AF to capture a static standing book :-P At least the AF can capture static standing test subject models :) but if you had a 100 MP MF ......... you'd be the Man of POTN :) except you still can shoot sports ;)

Joking aside colour differences is present in RAW. I deal with in on a daily basis when I post process.

I do find using Xrite passport and taking a profile preset in open shade it really tames Sony colours outdoors. Indoors the xrite passport still struggles with some aggressive reds and greens.


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AlanU
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Nov 10, 2018 11:30 |  #77

JeffreyG wrote in post #18748057 (external link)
I wonder if part of what is going on is that Sony's AWB performance is pretty bad. I'm used to my Canon getting the white balance pretty spot on in auto. The Sony does not. So some people perhaps see bad colors from Sony and call it "color science" when what it really is is wrong white balance.

Indeed your not off base. Sony white balance is not like Canon's. Fuji auto white balance is extremely good in available light and better than Canon.

However even once you correct the white balance you still have to deal with the aggressive colour channels Sony presents in certain light situations.

I used the A7iii for a reception and I had to put it away and use my 5d3 and 5d4. The mixed lighting in the Chinese restaurant was exceptionally bad and i had a nightmare time making it presentable in post.

However you can always convert to black and white LOL!!!


5Dmkiv |5Dmkiii | 24LmkII | 35mm f/2 IS | 85 mkII L | | 16-35L mkII | 24-70 f/2.8L mkii| 70-200 f/2.8 ISL mkII| 600EX-RT x2 | 580 EX II x2 | Einstein's
Fuji X-T2 w/battery booster | 16mm f/1.4 | 56 f/1.2 | 50-140 | TT685
Sony A7iii w/ Sigma MC-11 adapter | GM16-35 f/2.8 | Tamron 28-75 f/2.8 | GM70-200 f/2.8 |Sigma Art 24 f/1.4 | Godox V860iiS

  
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bobbyz
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Nov 10, 2018 11:31 |  #78

Got to have some fun other wise it will be all technical stuff and boring. Nothing personal. Next time we decide to come your side, would like to meet and say Hi.


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bobbyz
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Post edited 3 months ago by bobbyz. (2 edits in all)
     
Nov 10, 2018 11:33 |  #79

AlanU wrote in post #18748070 (external link)
I used the A7iii for a reception and I had to put it away and use my 5d3 and 5d4. The mixed lighting in the Chinese restaurant was exceptionally bad and i had a nightmare time making it presentable in post.

I know you use flash so wouldn't that solve the mixed lighting issue? At least you will have dominant light from your flash and use ambient with it to give you lot more control over your resulting pictures. I know it can be hard to setup lights etc but even hot shoe mounted flash with proper bounce gives much better results (as far as I have seen) from just using the ambient light, specially in low light situations.

Personally I never show AWB. Not that it matters when shooting RAW. I always have it set to some fixed value.


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JeffreyG
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Nov 10, 2018 12:26 |  #80

AlanU wrote in post #18748070 (external link)
However even once you correct the white balance you still have to deal with the aggressive colour channels Sony presents in certain light situations.

I used the A7iii for a reception and I had to put it away and use my 5d3 and 5d4. The mixed lighting in the Chinese restaurant was exceptionally bad and i had a nightmare time making it presentable in post.

I'm not sure I understand this part. I went back and looked at the book shots again. To my eye, the Sony shot with the Fred Miranda import settings looks to have the same color as the Canon shot. I used the comparison tool in LR, and sitting side by side, they look the same.

So if in that light the Sony raw with FM import setting delivers the same color as the Canon raw....why would this change for a different light?

I'm going out for some beers this afternoon, but perhaps tonight I can do some more testing. I have that shot in ~5500k overcast light. Tonight I'll shoot the same book with both cameras in ~3200k LED light and see if the color will match again (using the FM import).


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davesrose
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Nov 10, 2018 14:27 |  #81

AlanU wrote in post #18748069 (external link)
I do find using Xrite passport and taking a profile preset in open shade it really tames Sony colours outdoors. Indoors the xrite passport still struggles with some aggressive reds and greens.

This doesn't make sense to me. The X-rite Passport is primarily a series of color and tonal swatches for neutralizing WB and/or calibrating color to your display. By itself, it doesn't handle color. You can use presets for automatic color calibration, or you can fine tune WB and saturation yourself. I've been using my Passport for indoor studio shots...where I have also made a custom WB, but have mixed light from flash and ambient light from windows (so ambient light levels vary). Sometimes the custom WB looks a bit nicer, and sometimes the neutral Passport WB looks nicer (sometimes they're identical, or usually they're very close to one another). So my final photo winds up being based on preference. I admit I'm not as critical about color for outdoor photography: many times I AWB and adjust WB later if it "looks" a bit too red or green to my eyes. But the Passport isn't meant to tame colors: they may already be there if you've calibrated colors (or the image may still have too much saturation compared to the scene).

When I've had to color match Canon and Nikon, my findings were just like Jeffrey's: WB plays a significant role.


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Osa713
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Nov 10, 2018 16:43 |  #82

bobbyz wrote in post #18748047 (external link)
Jeffrey - You need to shoot a ship a mile away and a bear close by to see the differences.:)

Hilarious!:-P:-P:-P


LIGHT>LENS>BODY

  
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JeffreyG
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Nov 10, 2018 16:44 |  #83

OK, Repeating the test now lit with 3100K LED lights (in overhead pots).

Some differences persist....but is it much different than the 5500k shots?

I see the Sony with a bit muted green and a bit amped pink/red? What do you see?


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bobbyz
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Nov 10, 2018 17:08 |  #84

Pretty close to me and I would be happy with either camera.


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Nov 10, 2018 18:22 |  #85

Canon:


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Sony:

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That's what my computer sees

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CyberDyneSystems
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Post edited 3 months ago by CyberDyneSystems. (2 edits in all)
     
Nov 10, 2018 23:49 |  #86

This thread is amazing! :-D

I'm with Tony (I usually don't agree with him much) and thus I find the continuing debate over who has better color amazing. Particularly with the RAW converter discussion getting mixed in,.

How can anyone see a difference in a brands color rendering so clearly and yet not see how utterly superior the color and tonal handling of Canon RAW files is in Capture One vs. ACR?


Oh well, we live in a world where many people feel that facts are subjective, and truth is rarely true anymore.


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Charlie
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Nov 10, 2018 23:59 |  #87

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #18748515 (external link)
This thread is amazing! :-D

I'm with Tony (I usually don't agree with him much) and thus I find the continuing debate over who has better color amazing. Particularly with the RAW converter discussion getting mixed in,.

How can anyone see a difference in a brands color rendering so clearly and yet not see how utterly superior the color and tonal handling of Canon RAW files is in Capture One vs. ACR?


Oh well, we live in a world where facts are subjective, and truth is not rarely true anymore.

C1 is real nice, and my go-to for people shots in any light.

That said, I'm not terribly displeased with SOOC images from Sony, as long as I adjust the WB bias to my liking (A0.5, M0.5).

AWB-W + pastel colored walls and somewhat mixed lighting, not all the same but not far off.


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Nov 11, 2018 07:56 |  #88

When I got into photography, I figured I would shoot 80 percent color and 20 percent black & white. Three months in, though, I dropped color altogether, and I have had no regrets. Why? Read this thread. OK, more to it, but color management wasn't fun.

Oh, and until this thread popped up, I had never heard of ‘color science’ either. But remember, it’s photography, where even the objectively measurable is still going to be interpreted subjectively.


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CyberDyneSystems
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Nov 11, 2018 14:18 |  #89

Yes, I to have only heard the "color Science" talk recently here on POTN, usually it's a Canon guy saying it's a significant advantage over SONY. Where Fuji comes in, it's older, we just didn't say "color science" instead, we said "Fuji has the best jpeg processing". That at least has been referenced here on POTN since the early 2000's.

As for the recent color science talk touting Canon's advantage, my take has certainly been that it's mentioned a lot because SONY is so far ahead of Canon in so many other areas. Tony's hypothesis and data seem spot on to what I've been reading here the last few months.


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JeffreyG
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Nov 11, 2018 16:23 |  #90

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #18748935 (external link)
Yes, I to have only heard the "color Science" talk recently here on POTN, usually it's a Canon guy saying it's a significant advantage over SONY. Where Fuji comes in, it's older, we just didn't say "color science" instead, we said "Fuji has the best jpeg processing". That at least has been referenced here on POTN since the early 2000's.

As for the recent color science talk touting Canon's advantage, my take has certainly been that it's mentioned a lot because SONY is so far ahead of Canon in so many other areas. Tony's hypothesis and data seem spot on to what I've been reading here the last few months.

They say in a political argument, the first person to reference Hitler loses.

So I guess in a camera brand argument, the first guy to reference color science loses.  :p


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Color Science - Everyone hates Fuji lol, a test between Sony, Canon, Nikon, and Fuji
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