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FORUMS Sony Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Sony Accessories 
Thread started 22 Apr 2016 (Friday) 15:38
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Is flash the weakness of Sony?

 
Wilt
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Post edited 9 months ago by Wilt. (2 edits in all)
     
Nov 20, 2018 12:27 |  #16

TT350 has GN36 (meters)...or GN118 (feet) for 105mm FL view angle of illumination. So at f/4 we can reach out to 29.5' with the flash. Unfortunately the Godox TT360 user manual fails to provide any chart showing the GN at any other coverage angles.

Consulting the TT680 manual, output for 105mm is about 1EV brighter than it is for 50mm 'normal' FL...so assuming similar behavior from the TT350 as the TT680, at the 'normal' coverage angle we have f/2.8 at 29.5' or GN83 in the TT350.
Usually flash units lose at least -2EV in flash intensity when outputting HSS light, so we get HSS about GN41...at f/2.8 it now reaches only to 14'. Caution, some flash units lose at least -3EV when outputting HSS, so that declines to 10' at f/2.8 in HSS.


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Wilt
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Post edited 9 months ago by Wilt.
     
Nov 20, 2018 22:09 |  #17

Merlin_AZ wrote in post #18755106 (external link)
Looks like the tt350s works well for a small flash.
How is the HSS ability of that flash?
I'm worried that it might be too small to generate enough power outside.

Previous post showed how in HSS you were limited to f/2.8 at 10'. Now assuming bright sunlight, at ISo 100 you would be with 1/100 f/16...your flash has you under powered by -5EV...you would have 'enough' light from flash for -1EV fill only when about 2.5' away!


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Merlin_AZ
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Nov 21, 2018 07:51 |  #18

Wilt wrote in post #18755466 (external link)
Previous post showed how in HSS you were limited to f/2.8 at 10'. Now assuming bright sunlight, at ISo 100 you would be with 1/100 f/16...your flash has you under powered by -5EV...you would have 'enough' light from flash for -1EV fill only when about 2.5' away!

That's my concern.
I've had situations outside where I'd need to have a fast shutter speed to get the sky dark enough to see well, but not enough fill light for the subject, so I didn't think a small flash like this would work in those situations.




  
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Wilt
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Post edited 9 months ago by Wilt.
     
Nov 21, 2018 13:19 |  #19

Merlin_AZ wrote in post #18755675 (external link)
That's my concern.
I've had situations outside where I'd need to have a fast shutter speed to get the sky dark enough to see well, but not enough fill light for the subject, so I didn't think a small flash like this would work in those situations.

The real problem is simply that few flashes have enough power!!!

Let's think about this...generally it is acknowledged that you need a studio flash unit with 1000 w-s rating as enough for synchro-sun fill.

  • ISO 100 shooting means 1/100 f/16 for basic sunlight exposure without any flash.
  • You need flash fill equivalent to f/11 reading, and a 1000 w-s studio strobe can do that (output of about 12' f/16, so flash fill at -1EV is good out to about 17')

IOW you need something that has a GN190 rating...and that is not the inflated ratings associated with a zoom head that only covers the narrower 105mm FL lens at that intensity!

Now if HSS output were available in a GN190 flash unit, HSS would drop its rating -2EV or to GN95. You could shoot f/11 synchro-sun fill out to 8.5' or so. You started with a 1000 w-s flash to accomplish this. Now try to pick up a battery powered speedlight that can do that!

A Canon 580EX starts with 50mm FL coverage angle GN135 (its rating of 190 is only for 105mm FL coverage angle), so when it outputs HSS its GN drops to GN68...-1EV flash fill out to almost 7', from a pretty powerful speedlight.

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Charlie
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Nov 21, 2018 22:40 |  #20

the TT350 is a wonderful flash, but if you're expecting realistic HSS outdoors, you're simply not being realistic. Is there ANY flash that small, that can generate that sort of power?

Godox 860 at minimum if you want that sort of performance.

if that's not good enough, AD 200, AD 400, 600's, dual 600's, you get the point.


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Merlin_AZ
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Nov 22, 2018 13:27 |  #21

Thanks for the replies.
Understand more now.




  
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DanH5678
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Jan 04, 2019 20:11 |  #22

I use the Godox system with my A7iii and previously with the A7Rii. I have used these both on the camera and off camera. I have the AD600 as well as couple speed lights. You can have 4 different flashes controlled at the same time remotely with this system.




  
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MDJAK
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May 14, 2019 08:05 |  #23

Few months back I purchased either a Godox or like flash for my D850. I had never gone third party before, but as it was so much less expensive and had such good reviews I figured I couldn't go wrong. Well, go wrong I did. It completely died within a month with barely any use. I threw it in the garbage and got the top of the line Nikon flash which I also barely used and then sold all my gear and just got the A9. I'm now in the market for a flash. Last time I had Sony, last year sometime, I had the A7RIII and I think their 45 model flash. I'm now considering the 45RM vs. the 60RM.

Any thoughts on that? Figured Wilt, among others, is here, so I'll get good info without clogging up bandwith by starting another thread.

Thanks.
mark




  
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Wilt
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Post edited 3 months ago by Wilt. (11 edits in all)
     
May 14, 2019 12:11 |  #24

MDJAK wrote in post #18861175 (external link)
I'm now considering the 45RM vs. the 60RM.

Any thoughts on that? Figured Wilt, among others, is here, so I'll get good info without clogging up bandwith by starting another thread.

Thanks.
mark

Sorry Mark, I do not consider myself versed in Sony flash, apart from what is apparent in specifications. While the Chinese manufactured flash units have price appeal for the features they support, few of them offer post-warranty support beyond trashing it. Folks often state, "It is so inexpensive that when it fails I can simply buy a new one!" That is true, but plenty of working flash units of different brands with post-warranty support have been refurbished with new flash foot, etc. rather than needing to go into the trash can, too.

I just skimmed the owner manual for the 60RM, and I found one feature which (IMHO) renders it unaccepable for professional shooting, forcing you to have a second unit to use during the 'cool off' period...

"..., if the temperature
inside the flash unit rises further,
(overheat indicator) will light
on the LCD panel to indicate that
flash firing is disabled for a while.
In such a case, turn off the power
switch on the flash unit and leave
the flash unit unused for about 20
minutes to let it cool down
."

A Canon flash, by comparison, may s-l-o-o-w-w itself down so that it can not overheat, but it does still continue to fire!
And the Sony 60RM seems a bit weak (or its 200mm zoom position is particularly effective!)...its 50mm ('normal lens') GN is 37m, which equates to GN 121ft...in contrast, the Canon 580EX and 600EX both have GN 138, putting the 60RM in between the Canon 430EX GN 111 and the 580EX/6000EX in light output.
The Sony 45 RM has a normal lens GN of only 98, which is one full EV less light than a Canon 580EX/600EX


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Tom ­ Reichner
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Post edited 3 months ago by Tom Reichner.
     
May 14, 2019 13:59 |  #25

.

magwai wrote in post #17988555 (external link)
.
I pulled the trigger. . A6300 and 43m on the way.
.

.
So .... how have they worked out for you?

I thought that now that you've had a few years to use them, you would be able to let us know about your experiences with these units.


.


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Charlie
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May 14, 2019 15:16 |  #26

MDJAK wrote in post #18861175 (external link)
Few months back I purchased either a Godox or like flash for my D850. I had never gone third party before, but as it was so much less expensive and had such good reviews I figured I couldn't go wrong. Well, go wrong I did. It completely died within a month with barely any use. I threw it in the garbage and got the top of the line Nikon flash which I also barely used and then sold all my gear and just got the A9. I'm now in the market for a flash. Last time I had Sony, last year sometime, I had the A7RIII and I think their 45 model flash. I'm now considering the 45RM vs. the 60RM.

Any thoughts on that? Figured Wilt, among others, is here, so I'll get good info without clogging up bandwith by starting another thread.

Thanks.
mark

I'de get something from amazon and try your luck again with godox. I've got 4 units and they all work fine, and you could have had a dud for sure. It's so inexpensive, it's worth the risk to try again. I can get quite a few backup flashes for the price of one OEM flash.

if you want some sort of support, I would go and buy flashpoint by adorama, and have them support the item. It's a rebranded godox that's fully compatible with the godox system, and a two year usa warranty.


Sony A7riii/A9 - FE 12-24/4 - FE 24-240 - SY 24/2.8 - FE 28/2 - FE 35/2.8 - FE 50/1.8 - FE 85/1.8 - EF 135/1.8 Art - F 600/5.6 - CZ 100-300 - Astro Rok 14/2.8 - Tamron 17-28/2.8 - 28-75/2.8 RXD, 70-200/2.8 VC

  
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MDJAK
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May 15, 2019 20:30 |  #27

And now Profoto has upgraded their on camera flash, now the A1X and it is in stock for Sony. But at a cool thousand bucks. Hmm. It sure does look nice though.




  
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MDJAK
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May 19, 2019 05:07 |  #28

And so naturally I caved and ordered one. I’ll have it tomorrow




  
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Post edited 3 months ago by mystik610. (3 edits in all)
     
May 19, 2019 08:49 |  #29

Wilt wrote in post #18861326 (external link)
Sorry Mark, I do not consider myself versed in Sony flash, apart from what is apparent in specifications. While the Chinese manufactured flash units have price appeal for the features they support, few of them offer post-warranty support beyond trashing it. Folks often state, "It is so inexpensive that when it fails I can simply buy a new one!" That is true, but plenty of working flash units of different brands with post-warranty support have been refurbished with new flash foot, etc. rather than needing to go into the trash can, too.

I just skimmed the owner manual for the 60RM, and I found one feature which (IMHO) renders it unaccepable for professional shooting, forcing you to have a second unit to use during the 'cool off' period...

"..., if the temperature
inside the flash unit rises further,
(overheat indicator) will light
on the LCD panel to indicate that
flash firing is disabled for a while.
In such a case, turn off the power
switch on the flash unit and leave
the flash unit unused for about 20
minutes to let it cool down
."

A Canon flash, by comparison, may s-l-o-o-w-w itself down so that it can not overheat, but it does still continue to fire!
And the Sony 60RM seems a bit weak (or its 200mm zoom position is particularly effective!)...its 50mm ('normal lens') GN is 37m, which equates to GN 121ft...in contrast, the Canon 580EX and 600EX both have GN 138, putting the 60RM in between the Canon 430EX GN 111 and the 580EX/6000EX in light output.
The Sony 45 RM has a normal lens GN of only 98, which is one full EV less light than a Canon 580EX/600EX

All flashes overheat if you fire them too much...and that was a reality when I shot weddings with Canon too. What actually overheats is the batteries so if the flash enters protection mode, I would dump the batteries out (because at that point they're too hot to touch) and pop new ones in.

The thing with godox flash units is that they come with these lithium ion battery packs that aside from allowing the units to recycle ALOT faster, do not overheat nearly as quickly. It's actually pretty rare that I hit the overheat protection with godox units. And yes I've used lithium ion AA batteries with canon flashes. I used to use envelop pros back in the day and they too would overheat.


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Wilt
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Post edited 3 months ago by Wilt.
     
May 19, 2019 13:22 |  #30

mystik610 wrote in post #18863867 (external link)
All flashes overheat if you fire them too much...and that was a reality when I shot weddings with Canon too. What actually overheats is the batteries so if the flash enters protection mode, I would dump the batteries out (because at that point they're too hot to touch) and pop new ones in.

Your comment makes me wonder...if the photographer is using an external AA battery pack with his/her Canon flash, and the flash is set to use external batteries only, does the unit become 'resistant' to overheat because the internal AA batteries are not overheating?!


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