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Thread started 15 Sep 2014 (Monday) 11:20
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-= 7D2 owners unite! Discuss and post photos!

 
russbecker
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Nov 23, 2018 07:00 |  #20671

Having both the 7D2 and the 80D (as well as the 7D) I can say there are some small differences between the sensors. The 80D has a bit better DR at base ISO, there is little to no difference by ISO 400, and above ISO 640 the 7D2 is better, especially once you pass ISO 1250. The 80D has a bit more resolutioat 24MP vs 20MP.

The biggest difference is the 7D2's AF is much better than the 80D for small birds (so is the 7D's). I use the 80D mainly for landscapes at base ISO, multi-shot HDR merges, and just general snap shooting. I use the 7D2 for small birds, and also for general shooting. Having said all of that, the two bodies are nearly interchangeable.


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russbecker
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Nov 23, 2018 07:13 |  #20672

Bare tree, Shenandoah NP. Taken yesterday, a pretty drab day.


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Had the 7D2 along rather than the 80D because the 7D2 has GPS built-in while I would have had to mount the GP-E2 on the 80D, making for a bit bulkier package.


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SPAD VII, Old Rhinebeck Aerodrome. 7D2 is better than 80D for air shows IMO.

7D2 | 80D | Fuji X-H1 | 100-400 f/4-5.6 IIL | 300 f/4 L | 70-200 f/2.8 IIL | 135 f/2 L | 85 f/1.8 | 100 f/2 | 60 f/2.8 macro | nifty-fifty | 10-22 f/3.5-4.5 | Tamron 150-600 | Fuji XF 100-400 f/4.5-5.6 | Sigma 30 f/1.4 | Neewer X 25mm f/1.8 | Neewer X 32mm f/1.6

  
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aladyforty
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Nov 23, 2018 07:43 |  #20673

russbecker wrote in post #18756882 (external link)
Having both the 7D2 and the 80D (as well as the 7D) I can say there are some small differences between the sensors. The 80D has a bit better DR at base ISO, there is little to no difference by ISO 400, and above ISO 640 the 7D2 is better, especially once you pass ISO 1250. The 80D has a bit more resolutioat 24MP vs 20MP.

The biggest difference is the 7D2's AF is much better than the 80D for small birds (so is the 7D's). I use the 80D mainly for landscapes at base ISO, multi-shot HDR merges, and just general snap shooting. I use the 7D2 for small birds, and also for general shooting. Having said all of that, the two bodies are nearly interchangeable.


sounds like you use the 80D for what I use my 5DIII for, both great cameras just have things they are better at than the other and Id say the 80D would be a good alrounder, my friend loves his


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sidknee
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Nov 23, 2018 08:06 |  #20674

Archibald wrote in post #18756754 (external link)
The 80D has a better sensor than the 7D2. It is 24 mp compared to 20mp. That gives a 10% increase in reach when reach-limited. My 400mm effectively becomes a 440mm. Plus I believe the 80D has better high ISO performance. These things are important for me when shooting distant birds in poor light.

I could switch to the 80D now, but I think the 7D2 might have a better AF system. The solution to the dilemma would be a 7D2 with an 80D-like sensor or better - perhaps together with a few other improvements. And that would be the 7D3.

The 80D/M5/M50 etc sensor maybe slightly bigger but it's not better. In anything other than the best light and lowest ISO I'd pick the 7DII any day as the files are much easier to deal with. And anyway, having a slightly larger sensor doesn't increase your reach any, that's like saying putting 400mm on a 350D turns it into an effective 133mm or something, that's just not how it works! In theory you might be able to crop more but in reality the difference is negligible. I won't want a 7DIII if it has the same sensor as the 80D, that would ruin it for me.




  
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aladyforty
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Post edited over 2 years ago by aladyforty.
     
Nov 23, 2018 08:33 |  #20675

sidknee wrote in post #18756911 (external link)
The 80D/M5/M50 etc sensor maybe slightly bigger but it's not better. In anything other than the best light and lowest ISO I'd pick the 7DII any day as the files are much easier to deal with. And anyway, having a slightly larger sensor doesn't increase your reach any, that's like saying putting 400mm on a 350D turns it into an effective 133mm or something, that's just not how it works! In theory you might be able to crop more but in reality the difference is negligible. I won't want a 7DIII if it has the same sensor as the 80D, that would ruin it for me.

I do not think I will be upgrading my 7DII, I am more interested in full frame improvements, for what I use 7DII for it does a fine job. I am waiting to see where canon will go with its R series

edit, of course if the 7DIII comes out and is something truly spectacular I may be saying something different then :-D


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mcoren
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Nov 23, 2018 09:31 |  #20676

russbecker wrote in post #18756886 (external link)
Bare tree, Shenandoah NP. Taken yesterday, a pretty drab day.
thumbnail
Hosted photo: posted by russbecker in
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forum: Canon EOS Digital Cameras

Had the 7D2 along rather than the 80D because the 7D2 has GPS built-in while I would have had to mount the GP-E2 on the 80D, making for a bit bulkier package.

thumbnail
Hosted photo: posted by russbecker in
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forum: Canon EOS Digital Cameras

SPAD VII, Old Rhinebeck Aerodrome. 7D2 is better than 80D for air shows IMO.

Awesome images! The 7D2 with a 100-400 zoom (I use the Sigma) is my go-to airshow rig. I love your Spad image. I haven't found any airshows featuring WWI planes in the DC area--there's one in Virginia Beach, but that's during the summer and I don't want to fight weekend beach traffic to get there--so I'm definitely going to see about Old Rhinebeck. I have family in PA so I could make it a weekend trip sometime next year.

For GPS, I use the GeoTagr (external link) app for iOS. It's inexpensive and can work with any camera with or without built-in GPS, even multiple cameras simultaneously, because it uses the iPhone's GPS and logs everything on the phone. After a shoot, I copy my photos from the memory card(s) into a shared directory on my computer and geotag them from the phone before importing them into Lightroom. The app creates XML sidecar files and works with raw files and JPEGs. It only takes a few minutes to tag an entire day's worth of images. The developer is a good guy who responds to emails and fixes bugs quickly. (I have no affiliation with GeoTagr other than being a satisfied customer!).

The reason I don't like the 7D2's built in GPS is because it often won't lock, even after an hour under a relatively open sky, and it drains the camera's battery pretty quickly.

Mike


Sony α6400, Canon EOS 7D Mark II, EOS M5, and EOS 100 (film SLR)
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A backpack, a bicycle, and a pair of hiking boots

  
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Capn ­ Jack
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Nov 23, 2018 10:12 |  #20677

mcoren wrote in post #18756943 (external link)
Awesome images! The 7D2 with a 100-400 zoom (I use the Sigma) is my go-to airshow rig. I love your Spad image. I haven't found any airshows featuring WWI planes in the DC area--there's one in Virginia Beach, but that's during the summer and I don't want to fight weekend beach traffic to get there--so I'm definitely going to see about Old Rhinebeck. I have family in PA so I could make it a weekend trip sometime next year.

For GPS, I use the GeoTagr (external link) app for iOS. It's inexpensive and can work with any camera with or without built-in GPS, even multiple cameras simultaneously, because it uses the iPhone's GPS and logs everything on the phone. After a shoot, I copy my photos from the memory card(s) into a shared directory on my computer and geotag them from the phone before importing them into Lightroom. The app creates XML sidecar files and works with raw files and JPEGs. It only takes a few minutes to tag an entire day's worth of images. The developer is a good guy who responds to emails and fixes bugs quickly. (I have no affiliation with GeoTagr other than being a satisfied customer!).

The reason I don't like the 7D2's built in GPS is because it often won't lock, even after an hour under a relatively open sky, and it drains the camera's battery pretty quickly.

Mike

Which 7D2 firmware? I had the same problem about locking before firmware 1.1.0 (currently installed on mine), although they never mentioned doing anything to the GPS. Another thing I do is turn on the GPS periodically so it downloads a new satellite ephermeris and this seems to help lock-time; I do this with all my GPS devices, especially just before going on a trip.

The 7D2 GPS isn't great, it loses lock faster than other devices and doesn't get it back as easily. It is marginally useful on a commercial jet, although it works well in a small single engine plane, car, or walking about. I think the smaller windows on the commercial jet limits the number of satellites it can detect, although other GPS devices deal with it much better.

I agree about the battery drain, but I have a spare battery and that gets me through the day even with lots of pictures.

I also use a Bad Elf GPS logger. It works with my iPad. I purchased it for other purposes but it works well for geotagging. I use LightRoom to drop the image on the Bad Elf log. I only need to do this on images from a jet anymore, although my last trip held lock from Seattle almost to Chicago; the 7D2 only lost lock when the plane started maneuvering to land.




  
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Archibald
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Nov 23, 2018 13:01 |  #20678

Very useful comments about the 80D vs 7D2. Consensus seems to be that the 80D sensor is only slightly better. The extra pixels still help. OK, it does not extend reach, but there are more pixels on subject if you are reach-limited, so the effective reach is improved. I agree it is a small difference.

Sensor technology is getting to be mature, so improvements from generation to generation will be small. Makes me wonder what they could put into a 7D3 to make a significant improvement over the 7D2.


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sidknee
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Nov 23, 2018 13:49 |  #20679

Archibald wrote in post #18757034 (external link)
Very useful comments about the 80D vs 7D2. Consensus seems to be that the 80D sensor is only slightly better. The extra pixels still help. OK, it does not extend reach, but there are more pixels on subject if you are reach-limited, so the effective reach is improved. I agree it is a small difference.

Sensor technology is getting to be mature, so improvements from generation to generation will be small. Makes me wonder what they could put into a 7D3 to make a significant improvement over the 7D2.

The 2 things I'll be looking for are an improvement in high ISO noise and better AF. Not fussed about more pixels 20 -24 is fine, not fussed about touch screens or video.




  
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Jack ­ Dawe
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Nov 23, 2018 15:34 |  #20680

Capn Jack wrote in post #18756964 (external link)
The 7D2 GPS isn't great

That's true. Earlier this year it told me that a snap of a penguin that I took on the the east coast of New Zealand was actually taken in the middle of the Tasman Sea. And it wasn't as if I hadn't given it time to get a signal either.


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Capn ­ Jack
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Nov 23, 2018 16:08 |  #20681

Jack Dawe wrote in post #18757106 (external link)
That's true. Earlier this year it told me that a snap of a penguin that I took on the the east coast of New Zealand was actually taken in the middle of the Tasman Sea. And it wasn't as if I hadn't given it time to get a signal either.

I presume you were in the open? Were the images taken nearby reasonably placed?

Usually, I see that when the GPS signals are reflected by a structure. It's unusual to be that far off for any length of time and still keep a lock. The GPSr (GPS Receiver) on any of our consumer devices work by solving a series of simultaneous equations. The satellite sends a signal which contains the time of transmission; our devices note the time of reception and can calculate the distance from the satellite from the difference in time and the speed of light (forming a sphere). We can then limit our location to a circle where the sphere with the radius of our distance intercepts the surface of the earth. Other satellites serve to reduce that circle to a point (interception of several circles). As our consumer devices have a cheap clock, we also have to calculate the actual time and correct for that cheap clock. There are also corrections for relativity and atmospheric effects. Since the 7D2 and most modern GPSrs can use both the US GPS and GLONASS, problems with satellite geometry have all but disappeared. In New Zealand, the 7D2 should receive the JIS constellation too.

Essentially, the GPS needs a valid signal from at least 3 satellites to get a 2-D fix; if the signals bounce around too much, the math just doesn't work out for very long and it loses lock.

Since the upgrade to firmware version 1.1.0, my 7D2 seems to work acceptably well everywhere except on commercial jets, where I supplement it with the Bad Elf (except on the 787- those electronic windows block all GPS reception when activated, and on both flights I've had in a 787, the crew dimmed the windows for everyone).




  
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Nov 23, 2018 16:19 |  #20682

Jack Dawe wrote in post #18757106 (external link)
That's true. Earlier this year it told me that a snap of a penguin that I took on the the east coast of New Zealand was actually taken in the middle of the Tasman Sea. And it wasn't as if I hadn't given it time to get a signal either.

The GPS in my 7D2 works fine. It usually locks acceptably fast, and afterwards when I check a location using the recorded coordinates, they make sense. There may be times when it is out, but I have not observed examples of that. As Capn Jack says, any GPS can be out when there are large objects (buildings, mountains) around that reflect signals. I've certainly seen that with my hand-held Garmin, and it has gotten me into trouble at times. So it must happen with the 7D2 too, but I have not seen it.


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mcoren
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Nov 23, 2018 17:03 |  #20683

Capn Jack wrote in post #18756964 (external link)
Which 7D2 firmware? I had the same problem about locking before firmware 1.1.0 (currently installed on mine), although they never mentioned doing anything to the GPS. Another thing I do is turn on the GPS periodically so it downloads a new satellite ephermeris and this seems to help lock-time; I do this with all my GPS devices, especially just before going on a trip.

I'm using whatever the latest 7D2 firmware is from the Canon USA web site. I think it's 1.1.2.

Somebody else once recommended turning the 7D2 GPS on and leaving it by a window for 24 hours. Maybe I'll try that sometime. I don't have south-facing windows but I have east and west.

Capn Jack wrote in post #18756964 (external link)
I also use a Bad Elf GPS logger. It works with my iPad. I purchased it for other purposes but it works well for geotagging. I use LightRoom to drop the image on the Bad Elf log. I only need to do this on images from a jet anymore, although my last trip held lock from Seattle almost to Chicago; the 7D2 only lost lock when the plane started maneuvering to land.

Interesting. I never heard of them but I just checked it out on the web. What is the advantage over the built-int GPS? Is it more accurate? I would be a little concerned getting that now because it's not clear it's still being supported. The device list on their web site only goes as high as the iPhone 6 and its contemporaries, and the app in the Apple app store was last updated in May 2017.

Mike


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Capn ­ Jack
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Nov 23, 2018 17:33 |  #20684

mcoren wrote in post #18757137 (external link)
I'm using whatever the latest 7D2 firmware is from the Canon USA web site. I think it's 1.1.2.

Somebody else once recommended turning the 7D2 GPS on and leaving it by a window for 24 hours. Maybe I'll try that sometime. I don't have south-facing windows but I have east and west.

Interesting. I never heard of them but I just checked it out on the web. What is the advantage over the built-int GPS? Is it more accurate? I would be a little concerned getting that now because it's not clear it's still being supported. The device list on their web site only goes as high as the iPhone 6 and its contemporaries, and the app in the Apple app store was last updated in May 2017.

Mike

I bought the Bad Elf to go with ForeFlight which runs on my iPad (I have the WiFi only version of the iPad with no built-in GPS). It seems to be a much better receiver than the one in the 7D2. I can place it on the glareshield on whatever I'm flying and get a better signal which doesn't bounce around the cabin. On commercial flights, I can put it in the pocket nearest the window for a better fix, or use the strap to hang it from the seat in front of me. It has at least 24 hour battery life, the way I use it (BlueTooth may be on, but it isn't talking to the iPad all the time). It is small, and generates a nice track file that I can use with any camera I have with me. I'll sometimes have my XSi with me too.

Since it is used for aviation and marine applications, they do test it with the iOS- a few versions ago, Apple broke all external GPSr's (including Garmin):
https://bad-elf.com/pages/cleared-to-update (external link)




  
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Spencerphoto
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Nov 23, 2018 17:51 |  #20685
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This is a genuine question. I'm not being sarcastic.

Why do you folks need GPS? I have no problem remembering where I was shooting, though perhaps that just means I'm not shooting often enough!

Do you use it on shoots where you're moving around a lot and need to know where you where pretty accurately, or what?


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