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FORUMS General Gear Talk Camera Vs. Camera 
Thread started 11 Dec 2018 (Tuesday) 13:17
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Going back to DSLR? 80D? D7200? D610?

 
yellowt2
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Dec 11, 2018 13:17 |  #1

Actually posting this for my dad to get opinions; he wants to upgrade.

We'll start with the quick summary for those who don't like to read: :)
- Budget around $1000-$1500
- 24+MPix
- good battery life
- would like full-frame
- would like built-in flash
- main use is vacation landscapes/portraits

He came from a T3i, and was thinking about upgrading to full-frame. He actually prints pictures to hang on his wall (vacation landscapes), and the T3i was not always acceptable with resolution and detail.
I've loaned him my Sony A7 for a while, and he likes the increased resolution, but is unhappy with the battery life. His use case with the Canon was to leave the camera on, let it go to sleep mode, then wake it up with the shutter button to take a picture. Sony mirrorless doesn't do this, as the battery will die very quickly.

His budget is around $1000-$1500. He doesn't necessarily need full-frame (crop sensors have improved quite a bit from his old T3i), and is not stuck on a particular brand (he was actually thinking about switching to Nikon). He also likes to have a built-in pop-up flash for occasional fill-flash on portraits (which eliminates the 6D :()

I recommended the 80D if he wants to stay Canon; there's an 80D + 18-135 kit on Canon refurb for $1000
I don't know as much about Nikon, but the D7200 and D610 look interesting. I saw some good sales prices on the D750, but it would be stretching his budget with a decent lens.
He's open to mirrorless, but it would take some convincing on battery life. I mentioned that the A7iii has a bigger battery than my A7, but it's stretching the budget and no flash.

Any thoughts? Other suggestions?




  
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duckster
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Dec 11, 2018 13:57 |  #2

If he is stuck on FF, then the 80D is out...Or is that not an absolute?




  
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yellowt2
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Post edited 3 months ago by yellowt2. (2 edits in all)
     
Dec 11, 2018 15:40 as a reply to  @ duckster's post |  #3

He's open to crop sensors also. They've improved quite a bit since his T3i. A modern crop with 24MPix would be OK.
I think the pop-up flash is more important to him than full-frame; he first started looking at Nikon because they were the only full-frame cameras he found with pop-up flash. The D610 might be the answer, since it has both.

I suggested the 80D because of price, and because he could still use his 55-250 (although with a 18-135 I don't think he'll switch lenses very often)




  
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davesrose
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Dec 13, 2018 18:58 |  #4

I wouldn't use a pop up flash for portraits (or much of anything, honestly). It's a small light and tends to be boring/produce deep shadows. External flashes off camera gives you more versatility and more flattering modeling of light.


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yellowt2
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Dec 14, 2018 16:59 |  #5

davesrose wrote in post #18770398 (external link)
I wouldn't use a pop up flash for portraits (or much of anything, honestly). It's a small light and tends to be boring/produce deep shadows. External flashes off camera gives you more versatility and more flattering modeling of light.

I think he only uses it for fill-flash, so it's helping fill in the shadows. No, it's not as good as an off-camera flash setup, but he's on vacation, and doesn't want to carry an external flash around if he doesn't have to, thus the desire for a built-in flash.
It's not quite make-or-break, but choosing between a D610 or a 6D the built-in flash would make him go for the D610.




  
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Archibald
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Post edited 3 months ago by Archibald.
     
Dec 14, 2018 17:12 |  #6

Might be chasing windmills here. The T3i is 5184 pixels across, the 80D has 6000 (and similar in other 24 mp cameras), which is only a 16% improvement in resolution.


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Croasdail
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Dec 14, 2018 21:37 |  #7

If he wants to print big, get him a Sony A7rII - and pitch in for an extra battery for him. Sony still sells them, and they are $1,500 at BH Photo. He won't be complaining about resolution any more. But of course there are the lenses and all.... jacks the price up considerable. I use the 18-105 with mind and am pretty happy with it, for just walk around photography.

Maybe a good used 5D would do the trick?


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John ­ from ­ PA
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Post edited 3 months ago by John from PA.
     
Dec 15, 2018 12:13 |  #8

yellowt2 wrote in post #18768896 (external link)
I've loaned him my Sony A7 for a while, and he likes the increased resolution, but is unhappy with the battery life. His use case with the Canon was to leave the camera on, let it go to sleep mode, then wake it up with the shutter button to take a picture. Sony mirrorless doesn't do this, as the battery will die very quickly.

I'm not sure of the A7 menu options, but poor battery life with the A7iii may be a result of a user setting. With the A7iii, when you have the Finder/Monitor set to Auto (which enables you to use the EVF when you bring it to your eye) anything that passes in front of the viewfinder sensor will bring the camera out of sleep mode. That means the passage of your hand, some clothing, etc. will turn on the EVF. If the camera is carried on a neck strap, the screen will likely be ON continuously, in spite of the sleep mode time setting. With a wrist strap, even walking with the camera will likely keep the screen ON as the camera passes your leg.

There is also another issue with the A7III involving missing images and camera lockup. See https://fstoppers.com …a7r-iii-and-a7-iii-315309 (external link) for the details. This likely will get a firmware fix from Sony so it shouldn't be a game killer.




  
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yellowt2
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Dec 18, 2018 16:45 |  #9

Archibald wrote in post #18771008 (external link)
Might be chasing windmills here. The T3i is 5184 pixels across, the 80D has 6000 (and similar in other 24 mp cameras), which is only a 16% improvement in resolution.

It's not just pixel resolution; newer cameras (especially full-frame cameras) also have lower noise and better dynamic range. Extreme example: there are cell phones that take 20+MP images, but how good do they actually look compared to a DSLR image at the same resolution?

The T3i was "good enough" most of the time, but there were times that he was unhappy with its output. I'm sure the pictures look fine to other people that see them on the wall, but he knows :)




  
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yellowt2
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Dec 18, 2018 16:50 |  #10

Croasdail wrote in post #18771090 (external link)
If he wants to print big, get him a Sony A7rII - and pitch in for an extra battery for him. Sony still sells them, and they are $1,500 at BH Photo. He won't be complaining about resolution any more. But of course there are the lenses and all.... jacks the price up considerable. I use the 18-105 with mind and am pretty happy with it, for just walk around photography.

Maybe a good used 5D would do the trick?

I thought about the A7RII, but it's at the top of the budget (without lenses), and doesn't solve the battery life issue or have a built-in flash.




  
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Scoobert
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Dec 25, 2018 21:01 |  #11

yellowt2 wrote in post #18773565 (external link)
I thought about the A7RII, but it's at the top of the budget (without lenses), and doesn't solve the battery life issue or have a built-in flash.

I would tell him to save a little longer and get the A7iii. Battery life is amazing, sensor is awesome, focus system kicks butt and a flashpoint flash is only 84 bucks.

Better to pay a little more once then spend twice when he gets fed up with the crop sensor again.




  
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elitejp
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Dec 25, 2018 22:39 |  #12

If the main use is vacation then i would personally choose a sony a7 model and pair it with any small lens that suits me.
Small camera with a small lens means that i will be taking it everywhere on vacation.


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Dec 26, 2018 00:47 |  #13

The 77d is an inexpensive but better camera than the t3i. Better AF, better ISO, better DR, etc, and it falls below budget.


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ericbowles
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Dec 31, 2018 07:44 |  #14

I'm a Nikon shooter that has most of the camera or similar models.

Going through your specs, a crop sensor 24 MP camera will most likely do everything you need. You could choose full frame, but the lenses are going to be bigger and more expensive. Any camera produced in the last 5 years will be an upgrade of high ISO performance, but they are not tht different. There is an edge to Nikon and possibly some Sony cameras in ISO performance.

I think a refurbished camera will same money. A refurbished D7200 should come in around $600 if you can find one. A refurbished D610 or D600 is a great bargain. The D750 and D7500 are excellent cameras, but more expensive. You can buy small flash units for $250 or so - like the SB-300 - to have a "stick in your pocket" flash suitable for travel and a light fill.

The Nikon kit lenses are pretty good. The more recent 18-55 VR and 55-200 are pretty good. The 16-85 is very good. For full frame, the 24-85 is very good. All of the D7xxx and full frame cameras can use older lenses - back to the late 60's. There are some real bargains in the older prime lenses if you want to manually focus.

Take a look at www.keh.com (external link) for availability of used gear. It's a little more expensive, but they have a wide selection. Watch for refurbs at Adorama, Cameta, and other dealers. Pricing varies a lot and when there is a lot of supply, the prices drop - usually in April-September. A refurb D7500 or D750 at 55-60% of original retail would be a good deal. There is a lot of gear on sale or rebate right now, so a 25% discount is typical of new gear.


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Pagman
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Jan 06, 2019 20:10 |  #15

ericbowles wrote in post #18781532 (external link)
I'm a Nikon shooter that has most of the camera or similar models.

Going through your specs, a crop sensor 24 MP camera will most likely do everything you need. You could choose full frame, but the lenses are going to be bigger and more expensive. Any camera produced in the last 5 years will be an upgrade of high ISO performance, but they are not tht different. There is an edge to Nikon and possibly some Sony cameras in ISO performance.

I think a refurbished camera will same money. A refurbished D7200 should come in around $600 if you can find one. A refurbished D610 or D600 is a great bargain. The D750 and D7500 are excellent cameras, but more expensive. You can buy small flash units for $250 or so - like the SB-300 - to have a "stick in your pocket" flash suitable for travel and a light fill.

The Nikon kit lenses are pretty good. The more recent 18-55 VR and 55-200 are pretty good. The 16-85 is very good. For full frame, the 24-85 is very good. All of the D7xxx and full frame cameras can use older lenses - back to the late 60's. There are some real bargains in the older prime lenses if you want to manually focus.

Take a look at www.keh.com (external link) for availability of used gear. It's a little more expensive, but they have a wide selection. Watch for refurbs at Adorama, Cameta, and other dealers. Pricing varies a lot and when there is a lot of supply, the prices drop - usually in April-September. A refurb D7500 or D750 at 55-60% of original retail would be a good deal. There is a lot of gear on sale or rebate right now, so a 25% discount is typical of new gear.

I can only endorse the comments of erics, I have not long picked up an excellent condition D7200 with just over 56K shutter clicks, got it through a reputable chain of camera shops including a full check over/sensor clean prior to having it sent to me, I use it with my AF-P DX 70-300 lens and the combination of them both gives Huge smiles for the price £440 body and £140 lens (That cant be bad):-)

P.


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Going back to DSLR? 80D? D7200? D610?
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