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Thread started 05 Sep 2018 (Wednesday) 10:23
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New telephotos: 600 f4 III and 400f2.8 III

 
rndman
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Sep 05, 2018 21:41 |  #16

Choderboy wrote in post #18701386 (external link)
Holy featherweight Batman!

If it was not for the similarly incredibly lightweight Sony 400 2.8 release I would be speechless. Almost identical weight.
It makes me wonder if there was a new discovery or a new designer who was responsible for these lenses that feature so fewer forward elements.
While a certain childish online reviewer shared his view that the new Sony was a joke as you are paying the same amount for so many less large pieces of glass my view is if it saves lot's of weight but still performs well, great!

Sony 400 2.8, Nikon 500 5.6 PF and these two new Canons, amazing. The only one of those I could afford is the Nikon but these Canons, assuming they do perform which is close to certain, means many who can afford will upgrade so excellent for those can stretch finances for a used VII super tele.

The 400 DO II is looking a little less appealing too, a 500 f4 III should be not much heavier.

If 500 f/4 III comes out with the similar weight reduction, it will weigh just a little over 300 f/2.8


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MatthewK
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Sep 06, 2018 05:21 |  #17

A sub-6lb 500III will be extraordinary, and very tough to pass up. Things are getting a little more difficult now when it comes to choosing one of these lenses.

I wonder if Canon decided to forgo the 600 DO because they knew that they could shave off a ton of weight w/o using DO, while keeping the costs down. A 600 DO was set to be massively expensive, so offering a III at nearly the same price as the II made more sense at the present.




  
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notastockpikr
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Sep 06, 2018 06:00 |  #18

The weight reductions are impressive. I guess Canon found a new magnesium alloy that would do the trick with weight reduction. I wouldn't be surprised if the 600 DO appears with an RF mount when the next iteration of the R camera is announced.

Don't understand the fbw when manually focusing these lenses. It will be a bit before I can swing the new 600 III. Regardless, my 600 II is just fine.




  
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Chris ­ Bellamy
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Sep 06, 2018 06:33 |  #19

I was also thinking that the 600DO may appear as RF mount rather than EF; it would make sense having 600 available 'natively' for both mounts but with a different flavour.

The 400 f2.8 III looks really tempting to me: the major weight reduction and (I assume) much better hand-holdability with the centre of mass moving backwards make it a relatively travel-friendly option covering both low light and with 800 f5.6 capability. I am really tempted to exchange my 400DOII as the extra stop at 400mm and likely much better 800mm performance when needed make this a really flexible wildlife travel option.

chris




  
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juanpafer
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Sep 06, 2018 13:11 |  #20

I don’t know if the DO version makes sense any more. It would make the lens shorter, but I don't think it would make it much lighter. The front of the lens is mostly empty with most of the optical (heavy) elements towards the back. I know that people will pay dearly for a weight reduction but I don’t think they will pay more for just a shorter lens.


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HoustonRob
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Sep 06, 2018 13:50 |  #21

I’m no marketing expert, but the new 600/4 III seems to put to bed the notion of a 600/4 DO. Not sure what the benefit would be to the DO (a shorter lens, maybe?).
I still can see the need for my 400/4 DO II, however. It will still be over 2 lbs. lighter than the new 600 III. But, I will admit that a 400/2.8 that is lighter than the current 500/4 II would be pretty tempting if one needed the extra stop of light.

At the end of the day, I’ll plan on keeping my 400 DO II and upgrading my 600 II to the III.


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CyberDyneSystems
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Sep 06, 2018 14:17 |  #22

juanpafer wrote in post #18701189 (external link)
Hosted photo: posted by juanpafer in
./showthread.php?p=187​01189&i=i46901720
forum: Canon Lenses


You are right about the weight shift. I really want to try it

Less glass, so they SHOULD be less expensive! lol :)  :p


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CyberDyneSystems
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Sep 06, 2018 14:19 |  #23

Choderboy wrote in post #18701386 (external link)
..., a 500 f4 III should be not much heavier.

And if history repeats itself, should not be far behind!


Sooo, will I have to take the loss of a few $K again, and buy ANOTHER 500mm soon?

My very poor condition disk between C4 and C5 tell me, "Yes" :)


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Tom ­ Reichner
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Sep 06, 2018 15:11 |  #24

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #18701843 (external link)
Sooo, will I have to take the loss of a few $K again, and buy ANOTHER 500mm soon?

Normally, one should be able to sell a big white for about the same price that one paid originally.

In fact, in 2010 my friend bought a 500 f4 brand new from Adorama, and then a couple years later when he wanted to upgrade to the new 600 f4 v2, he sold his 2 year old 500 f4 for a few hundred dollars MORE than he had paid for it.

So, if one is very careful about how much one pays for a lens, then they should be able to break even when they sell it a few years later. Or perhaps even make a bit of a profit, like my friend did. I see no reason why one should have to take a substantial loss.


"Your" and "you're" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"They're", "their", and "there" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"Fare" and "fair" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one. The proper expression is "moot point", NOT "mute point".

  
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ShadowHillsPhoto
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Sep 06, 2018 16:49 |  #25

Tom Reichner wrote in post #18701874 (external link)
Normally, one should be able to sell a big white for about the same price that one paid originally.

In fact, in 2010 my friend bought a 500 f4 brand new from Adorama, and then a couple years later when he wanted to upgrade to the new 600 f4 v2, he sold his 2 year old 500 f4 for a few hundred dollars MORE than he had paid for it.

So, if one is very careful about how much one pays for a lens, then they should be able to break even when they sell it a few years later. Or perhaps even make a bit of a profit, like my friend did. I see no reason why one should have to take a substantial loss.

I wish that were the case. I did have an 85mm 1.2 that I bought new around the same time as your friends 500 f4, and there was a brief point where I could have sold it used at a profit, but that had more to do with the dollar tanking and Canon dramatically raising lens prices in the US market. In the case of the 600mm II it was released at $12,000 and is still $11,500 new. The used market has been around $9,500-$10,000 for quite a while, so anyone selling one they bought new has been taking a hit of at least $1,500 to $2,500. The used price fell further when it became clear a new version was imminent and some people moved to sell their current versions. Prices on FM are now in the $8,500 to $9,300 range and there was even one in mint condition that sold for only $8,000. At best you're probably looking at a hit of $4,000 if you unload a 600mm II right now and buy the Mark III brand new, and if you have to pay tax on the new one that's going to be another grand or so most places. I would love to have the new version and the weight savings that come with it, but I can't take the loss of buying new. I'm going to have to wait until the new version has been out for a year or two and hope there's a point in time where the delta between my 600 II and a used 600 III is about $3,000. That may be overly optimistic, I'm not sure.




  
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Tom ­ Reichner
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Sep 06, 2018 17:42 as a reply to  @ ShadowHillsPhoto's post |  #26

I don't think that there was any need for anyone to pay the 'going rate' for a new Canon 600f4 v2. Shortly after it was first made available, there were ways to get a new one for less.


I remember it was frequently available from CanonPriceWatch for $9,999.00. And then GreenToe would be able to offer it at a similarly discounted price on a rather frequent basis.

One just needs to put their time in and dig, dig, dig, persistently and resourcefully, until the right price comes along.


"Your" and "you're" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"They're", "their", and "there" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"Fare" and "fair" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one. The proper expression is "moot point", NOT "mute point".

  
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MatthewK
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Sep 06, 2018 18:03 |  #27

ShadowHillsPhoto wrote in post #18701943 (external link)
I wish that were the case. I did have an 85mm 1.2 that I bought new around the same time as your friends 500 f4, and there was a brief point where I could have sold it used at a profit, but that had more to do with the dollar tanking and Canon dramatically raising lens prices in the US market. In the case of the 600mm II it was released at $12,000 and is still $11,500 new. The used market has been around $9,500-$10,000 for quite a while, so anyone selling one they bought new has been taking a hit of at least $1,500 to $2,500. The used price fell further when it became clear a new version was imminent and some people moved to sell their current versions. Prices on FM are now in the $8,500 to $9,300 range and there was even one in mint condition that sold for only $8,000. At best you're probably looking at a hit of $4,000 if you unload a 600mm II right now and buy the Mark III brand new, and if you have to pay tax on the new one that's going to be another grand or so most places. I would love to have the new version and the weight savings that come with it, but I can't take the loss of buying new. I'm going to have to wait until the new version has been out for a year or two and hope there's a point in time where the delta between my 600 II and a used 600 III is about $3,000. That may be overly optimistic, I'm not sure.

I'm thinking the II will hold price for a good while; if I cared about perfect resale, I'd be flipping my 600 II ASAP, but there's just one thing stopping me: I want to take photos of birds between now and December, especially with migration starting to heat up :-) Ideally, I'd sell in early December and hopefully not take too much of a hit, but ouch... full price is so painful :eek:




  
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PeterAlex7
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Post edited over 4 years ago by PeterAlex7. (2 edits in all)
     
Sep 09, 2018 01:30 as a reply to  @ post 18701046 |  #28

Great to see their effort to refresh their not-so-old products. I'm sure at the beginning most of us expected minor refreshment when we heard that they are going to renew these giants. They also managed to hold the price so well. They can just add 1k on each lens and still won't lose any potential buyer. But they choose not to, this surely will attract those outsiders to come in.

Put lots of weight away, cut the price a little bit, use tagline "your old muscle are still reliable", this will triple their profit from the version II giants, I guess :-D




  
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Choderboy
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Sep 09, 2018 03:30 |  #29

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #18701843 (external link)
And if history repeats itself, should not be far behind!

Sooo, will I have to take the loss of a few $K again, and buy ANOTHER 500mm soon?

My very poor condition disk between C4 and C5 tell me, "Yes" :)

My problem is C5 - C6! Planning to have it replaced in a couple of years.
It really is great timing with regards releases of so many light weight long lenses.
500 f4 III should be about the weight of a 500 f4 DO if using the existing 400 DO as a guide.
Maybe I won't be switching to Nikon for their 500 PF.


Dave
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John_TX
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Dec 11, 2018 15:28 |  #30

I’ve seen the 400 f2.8 III listed as In-Stock at B&H, Adorama, and Amazon.

Have any lens reviews surfaced yet for either the 400 f2.8 III or 600 f4 III?

I’ve searched, but have yet to run across one!


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New telephotos: 600 f4 III and 400f2.8 III
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