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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 05 Sep 2018 (Wednesday) 02:31
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POLL: "How's the new EOS-R stack up for you?"
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EOS-R - It's out. Thoughts?

 
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KenjiS
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Dec 20, 2018 19:49 |  #2506

umphotography wrote in post #18774974 (external link)
Ahahahha

Ken I was at best buy yesterday and did the same thing. I also kept pushing the darn arrow thing with my thumb trying to move the focal point :-P:-P

I think you rally need to get it in your hands. It felt foreign to me thats for sure. But unlike Sony......I could get in that menu and figure things out

Ergos/grip is awesome

24-105 is amazing as I previously found out

I really cant comment on the AF or focal system. I kept tapping o the viewfinder to focus on something because i could not figure out how to move ot from back of the camera.......lack of familiarity for sure

I took a card with me but he would not let me put it in the camera


TBH I have had less of a problem picking a Sony up and using it than the Canon... I honestly have an issue with.. How do i term it, the lower end Canon interfaces? Like Im totally ok using a 5D IV, 7DII etc but give me a 6DII or 77D or something and its an immensely frustrating experience for my brain.. I can pick up a Nikon D600/750/850 and easily work everything on it easily without the amount of pausing, stopping and trying to find controls as on the low end Canon bodies...

The Menus i use less than the buttons on the back of my camera.. Yeah, Sony definitely has terrible menus but to me the terrible menus are simply not as big of a problem day to day as the buttons and lack of a joystick are for me

Obviously, YMMV on ergonomics obviously, as everyones hands/joints/physical capabilities are different, but id take the A7III over it any day still.

TBH I just think people whining over the IQ or whatever are silly, the EOS R, Z6 and A7III are all solid performers with IQ, and best IQ doesnt mean anything if your AF misses the mark, the interface is too clunky to work with while shooting, or any number of other ergonomic concerns that always irked me more..


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Tom ­ Reichner
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Post edited 2 months ago by Tom Reichner.
     
Dec 20, 2018 20:38 |  #2507

.

KenjiS wrote in post #18774975 (external link)
You can actually change the AF point without removing your eye from the viewfinder, you use it like a trackpad on a computer more or less, you move your thumb around on the screen and it drags the box around in the viewfinder, but yes, its clunky and some people will accidentally activate it with their nose...

.

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18774976 (external link)
You use the rear screen and move your finger around like laptop touchpad to move the AF point around. Works well enough, as long as your nose doesn't interfere and move the AF point on you.

.
I see. . I guess the EOS-R must be shaped differently than the Canon DSLRs, because when I am looking through the viewfinder on a DSLR, my nose and cheekbone are pretty much pressed right up against the rear LCD.

I mean, there would be no way to use the LCD as a touchpad because the space where my thumb or finger would be is already occupied by my face. . There is no way to see through the viewfinder properly without my face quite literally being pressed hard up against that LCD. . No room for a thumb or a finger AT ALL.

So yeah, I would hope that they physical shape and layout of the EOS-R is completely different than any of the DSLRs ..... it would have to be, in order to facilitate simultaneous viewfinder and touchpad use.


.


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"Fare" and "fair" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one. The proper expression is "moot point", NOT "mute point".

  
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KenjiS
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Dec 20, 2018 20:52 |  #2508

Tom Reichner wrote in post #18775018 (external link)
.

.

.
I see. . I guess the EOS-R must be shaped differently than the Canon DSLRs, because when I am looking through the viewfinder on a DSLR, my nose and cheekbone are pretty much pressed right up against the rear LCD.

I mean, there would be no way to use the LCD as a touchpad because the space where my thumb or finger would be is already occupied by my face. . There is no way to see through the viewfinder properly without my face quite literally being pressed hard up against that LCD. . No room for a thumb or a finger AT ALL.

So yeah, I would hope that they physical shape and layout of the EOS-R is completely different than any of the DSLRs ..... it would have to be, in order to facilitate simultaneous viewfinder and touchpad use.

.


If I remember right, you can basically assign only the right side of the LCD to the touchpad function so your face is less likely to interfere... But yeah, TBH, its an inelegant solution


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Post edited 2 months ago by TeamSpeed.
     
Dec 20, 2018 20:55 as a reply to  @ Tom Reichner's post |  #2509

If you use your right eye, you have about 1/2 the screen that won't be covered by your face. You can assign the upper right quadrant or lower right quadrant as your touchpad. It works on my M50 and the EOS R has even a larger screen.


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Dec 20, 2018 21:27 |  #2510

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18775028 (external link)
If you use your right eye, you have about 1/2 the screen that won't be covered by your face. You can assign the upper right quadrant or lower right quadrant as your touchpad. It works on my M50 and the EOS R has even a larger screen.

I hadn't looked at the difference before but checked tonight after the past few replies. On my 5DSR my face will touch its screen. But the EVF of the EOS R protrudes back a good distance so that only my nose tip may touch one part of the screen. It has been no problem for the way I setup and use my EOS R, but I was curious. Would you like to start a business that sells adhesive flesh colored nose pads to photographers? Or, we could buy the small dot labels like Staples sells, but repackage under a different name.

"Schnoz-Gaurd" ... ??

"Beak-Breaker" ... ??


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Dec 20, 2018 21:39 |  #2511

mdvaden wrote in post #18775043 (external link)
"Schnoz-Gaurd" ... ??

"Beak-Breaker" ... ??

Problem has already been solved by Navin
A few modifications and we can have it hold the screen away from your nose. We will be rich as long as we dont get sued.


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Tom ­ Reichner
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Dec 20, 2018 21:41 |  #2512

mdvaden wrote in post #18775043 (external link)
Would you like to start a business that sells adhesive flesh colored nose pads to photographers? Or, we could buy the small dot labels like Staples sells, but repackage under a different name.

"Schnoz-Gaurd" ... ??

"Beak-Breaker" ... ??

Ha!

I'd probably buy one. . I have extremely oily skin. . I mean, my nose skin emits so much oil that my rear LCD screen is just this big greasy smear.

The upside is that because I am so oily, I never get chapped lips or cracked fingers. . I guess I'm like an eskimo in that regard.

The downside is that everything I touch gets loads of oily residue on it. . When I eat dinner with others at someone else's house, or a restaurant, and we are all using glasses, my glass ends up covered with unsightly fingerprints, while everybody else's glass remains relatively clean.

This definitely has an effect on how useful LCD screens are to me. . Cell phones, too ...... my phone screen is always covered in horrible greasy smears and it's often hard to even see what is on the screen. . I guess the whole touchpad thing only really works for "normal" people who don't emit ungodly amounts of oil from their pores.

I wish that Canon would consider people like me when it comes to how they design the backs of their cameras.


.


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Dec 20, 2018 21:47 |  #2513

A screen protector sheet makes cleaning of oil off the screen very easy. I strongly suggest getting one.

Canon didn't design this type of solution, other manufacturers already had this, and Canon copied it.


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Lester ­ Wareham
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Dec 21, 2018 01:24 |  #2514

KenjiS wrote in post #18774965 (external link)
I handled one in Best Buy with the 24-105 f/4 on it...

I was not impressed..

The AF is ok, if you're not shooting anything moving too fast (I borrowed a friend and had them walk diagonally and asked the camera to track and it kept losing focus), it also shoots very slow, but that wasnt the worst thing to me... The controls were my biggest complaint.

The AF ON is in a TERRIBLE place, the lack of a joystick is EXTREMELY annoying, reaching over to do touchpad AF in my case was a pain, the controls in general to me just were.. not good, and thats more important than any arguments about IQ and that. It just wasnt an intuitive easy camera to handle for me, maybe its because im used to the 7D/7D Mark II type cameras and not the 6D/6D Mark II type of controls (Which i hate)

Viewfinder was super sharp and nice, rear screen was super nice. and the 24-105 seemed very nice, Im not sure on the front dial placement (id rather it was closer to the rear of the lens like most aperture rings because then id use it for aperture probably) and the menus are nice. So yes, there are some very good things about it.

I wanted to like it or be surprised by it.. But I just didn't, Happy Canon is making a mirrorless to put pressure on the market, but its not the camera for me

As you say the ergonomics is the thing (I have had the 6D for years now but the lack of a joystick and a few other missing basics still pisses me off at times.

However you probably could get used to R in time but first impressions are important.

Ergonomic of the controls was a major driver for me choosing Canon over Nikon for the first DLSR. I had read both camera manuals and the tried both in the same shop.

The Canon just worked better for me, a first but lasting impression.


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Dec 21, 2018 01:26 |  #2515

KenjiS wrote in post #18774975 (external link)
You can actually change the AF point without removing your eye from the viewfinder, you use it like a trackpad on a computer more or less, you move your thumb around on the screen and it drags the box around in the viewfinder, but yes, its clunky and some people will accidentally activate it with their nose... Ive used the same system on my GX8 prior, its not HORRIBLE, but honestly its not a replacement for a joystick, nowhere near as sensitive or quick

And yes, you illustrated exactly my big problem with the EOS R... I can just tap my joystick on my A7III to change where i want to focus, or alternately, the A7III has a superb lock on AF that actually holds the subject in the frame remarkably well.. The Canon equivalent to this mode did not do as well from my testing which wasnt that demanding.

I wonder it that touch screen thing might get set off by my glasses actually, not that I don’t have good size nose too. ;-)a


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Dec 21, 2018 07:47 |  #2516

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18775028 (external link)
If you use your right eye, you have about 1/2 the screen that won't be covered by your face. You can assign the upper right quadrant or lower right quadrant as your touchpad. It works on my M50 and the EOS R has even a larger screen.

I’m left eye dominant, which often has compromises in camera operation.

Any left eye people use the EOS-R for a while? I admit to not liking the use of the touchpad for it, but I don’t have weeks of use.


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Dec 21, 2018 07:54 |  #2517

JeffreyG wrote in post #18775243 (external link)
I’m left eye dominant, which often has compromises in camera operation.

Any left eye people use the EOS-R for a while? I admit to not liking the use of the touchpad for it, but I don’t have weeks of use.

I am sure that is less than ideal for the screen remote control of the AF points. :( This is where the joystick would likely be very superior to a touchpad solution. I think you can use the control wheel/4-way pad to move the AF points around but with 5K of them, that would be a poor way to do that.

These are things Canon really needs to consider. I wonder how Sony does it for this type of situation as it also employs a touchpad AF selection, doesn't it?

The same issues I see with my M50, I see also exists with the EOS R (which is to be expected).

Just one forum link to issues with the touchscreen, some of which I have experienced.

https://community.usa.​canon.com …ning-AF-point/td-p/257622 (external link)

Perhaps instead of the touch "drag bar", they could actually create a touch pad for the thumb, or convert the wheel/dial into such a thing. Still have the 4 sides as button presses to do things, but the center is a touch pad (and a drag pad even) that will do different things depending on the mode. If taking a picture, you control the AF on the pad, if you review an image, it will drag the image around, press up and it will set your ISO, etc. Many different options would exist with an implementation like this. The camera is large enough to support this, a smaller body wouldn't.

Many small wireless keyboards have such a touchpad to move the mouse on a screen. Having something about 3-4cm square instead of the dial, and then some perimeter buttons would be pretty nice I think. The touch bar could be moved to this as well and free up real estate for other buttons.


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Dec 21, 2018 07:58 |  #2518

KenjiS wrote in post #18774982 (external link)
TBH I have had less of a problem picking a Sony up and using it than the Canon... I honestly have an issue with.. How do i term it, the lower end Canon interfaces? Like Im totally ok using a 5D IV, 7DII etc but give me a 6DII or 77D or something and its an immensely frustrating experience for my brain.. I can pick up a Nikon D600/750/850 and easily work everything on it easily without the amount of pausing, stopping and trying to find controls as on the low end Canon bodies...

The Menus i use less than the buttons on the back of my camera.. Yeah, Sony definitely has terrible menus but to me the terrible menus are simply not as big of a problem day to day as the buttons and lack of a joystick are for me

Obviously, YMMV on ergonomics obviously, as everyones hands/joints/physical capabilities are different, but id take the A7III over it any day still.

TBH I just think people whining over the IQ or whatever are silly, the EOS R, Z6 and A7III are all solid performers with IQ, and best IQ doesnt mean anything if your AF misses the mark, the interface is too clunky to work with while shooting, or any number of other ergonomic concerns that always irked me more..


Same

My cousin has a consumer based canon body. I forget which one. When we went out shooting together one morning & I handed his camera back to him and told him to find servo controls in his menu. Then I handed it back again so we could find something else......they are totally different than the 1D and 5D systems...custom functions in some of those menu's are really different


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Dec 21, 2018 10:14 |  #2519

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18775245 (external link)
Perhaps instead of the touch "drag bar", they could actually create a touch pad for the thumb, or convert the wheel/dial into such a thing. Still have the 4 sides as button presses to do things, but the center is a touch pad (and a drag pad even) that will do different things depending on the mode. If taking a picture, you control the AF on the pad, if you review an image, it will drag the image around, press up and it will set your ISO, etc. Many different options would exist with an implementation like this. The camera is large enough to support this, a smaller body wouldn't.

Perhaps voice recognition like "OKAY GOOGLE" but rather:

"OKAY CANON - ISO 3200" ... "OKAY CANON - double shutter speed" ... "OKAY CANON-disable face tracking" ... "OKAY CANON-aperture 4.0" ... "OKAY CANON-increase ISO 2 stops"


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Dec 21, 2018 10:29 |  #2520

mdvaden wrote in post #18775319 (external link)
Perhaps voice recognition like "OKAY GOOGLE" but rather:

"OKAY CANON - ISO 3200" ... "OKAY CANON - double shutter speed" ... "OKAY CANON-disable face tracking" ... "OKAY CANON-aperture 4.0" ... "OKAY CANON-increase ISO 2 stops"


That works only in casual situations. Going to a school play, a wedding, or loud venue would kill that.


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