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FORUMS Post Processing, Marketing & Presenting Photos The Business of Photography 
Thread started 27 Dec 2018 (Thursday) 00:02
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Ltdave
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Dec 27, 2018 00:02 |  #1

i ALMOST hate to even bring this up because a)".... youre not REALLY a professional because (name some tax issues/codes/etc" b)"... whats it worth to YOU to do X job?" and so on...

there is an 81 year old bascule type railroad draw bridge in town. its been out of service for the last 40 years or so and "stored" so to speak in the upright position. its 1of 6 originally built (engineering style) and only 1 of 3 still existence...

a local property owner bought the small (2 acre or less) parcel it sits on and they want to tear it down. the Army Corp of Engineers is to make a decision hopefully in the near future and one option (in their decision) requires extensive documentation of the bridge. shooting detail type images is what im best at, and would LOVE to document this bridge...

i could see easily spending 5 days or more shooting images of the details and only a small portion of the job could be done from ground level. i have lots of experience in fall prevention and have a harness and lanyard, hard hat etc. i dont suspect many other photographers in town have any training in that level of safety nor do they do documentary type photography.

the main arch structure is probably around 90' in height (ive climbed it many years ago to shoot photos from the top of) and the bridge span is 173' long and currently in the open position at probably a 75-80o angle...

does anyone have any idea, what a good asking price for documenting this bridge, might be worth to them? im thinking $2-3k for the complete job. i dont know if asking even that price is out of line. i could see a price for something like that easily being much higher, but i dont know...

the Corp of Engineers has said that IF they give permission to the owners to move or dismantle it, they would have to have it extensively documented, and if they do, or even if the preservation group wants it documented, id love to do it...


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Perfectly ­ Frank
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Dec 27, 2018 00:43 |  #2

Could be some risk in climbing this thing.

What about using a drone to photograph higher sections?


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Dec 27, 2018 05:55 as a reply to  @ Perfectly Frank's post |  #3

Yep, you can get very good shots of the hard to reach sections with a drone.

It can be done very quickly and very safely.

The cost will much less..

If you for it with only camera and climbing and someone else has the idea of a drone / camera combo they will come in with a lower price and will get the jobs. and they will have a good profit margin.

Drone pics can be excellent quality for this purpose

Not the time to be purist here.

Just my 2 cents


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Perfectly ­ Frank
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Dec 27, 2018 07:18 |  #4

Not trying to be harsh, but 5 days of photography and 2 or 3 grand seems over the top.

How well documented does it have to be? To me it looks like tons of scrap metal that should have been torn down years ago.


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Dec 27, 2018 08:33 |  #5

I think that one day of shooting and another total to process and edit the selects is plenty. Anything else is simply a reflection of your fascination with the subject matter. Yes, I agree with your range for documentation, delivery and limited license of images.


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Ltdave
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Dec 27, 2018 10:38 |  #6

Perfectly Frank wrote in post #18778718 (external link)
Not trying to be harsh, but 5 days of photography and 2 or 3 grand seems over the top.

How well documented does it have to be? To me it looks like tons of scrap metal that should have been torn down years ago.

i dont think it would be 40 hours worth of shooting, but parts of each day, and like i said, i dont know if 2-3k is too much or not enough.

how much documentation does it need? no idea. the Corp of Engineers is rather vague on the whole issue including what they think should be done with it. theyre involved because its on a navigable waterway.

a lot of people think that. its listed on several historical registries due to the design and function. its at the mouth of two rivers in town, one as an international border (US and Canada) and serves as a low-tech navigation aid in heavy fog and rain, and while it looks pretty ratty, it was inspected in the past 10 years and found to be structurally sound and in no danger of coming down on its own.


tcphoto1 wrote in post #18778749 (external link)
I think that one day of shooting and another total to process and edit the selects is plenty. Anything else is simply a reflection of your fascination with the subject matter. Yes, I agree with your range for documentation, delivery and limited license of images.

yeah, i suppose i could probably keep it at 2 days of shooting, now that i look at the picture i share. probably wouldnt need to shoot the entire span. and yeah ive got a bit of fascination with historical items :D




  
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Perfectly ­ Frank
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Dec 27, 2018 12:04 |  #7

Keep us posted if you get the job. Hope it works out well for you.


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Dan ­ Marchant
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Dec 28, 2018 06:39 |  #8

Ltdave wrote in post #18778816 (external link)
how much documentation does it need? no idea.

That right there is your problem. It is impossible to cost a job until you have a clear spec of what is needed and a clear idea of your hourly/day rate.

Only when you know exactly what you are shooting can you work out how long it will take. Then you need to know how much that will cost to shoot and how much you want to add on top as profit.


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Ltdave
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Dec 28, 2018 09:33 as a reply to  @ post 18779419 |  #9

no.

in the "sub" decision (they are going in very incremental steps, at what the property owners feel a glacial pace*) the Corp of Engineers told the owner, that IF they were to grant permission to remove the bridge, the OWNER would be responsible for fully documenting all physical aspects of the bridge prior to a final approval to remove the bridge.

* the initial permit request was submitted 6 years (maybe 7?) years ago...




  
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gewb
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Dec 28, 2018 17:33 |  #10

It is the "extensive documentation" that must be defined first. I've read some of those types of projects and this one will take a photographer, author, editor, one or two structural engineers and a seasoned technical writer. I would see the time as several months.

As a photographer it is not your job to do the documentation but to provide a flood of photos from overviews to pins and rivets, each mapped to locations on the structure. Drones will be your primary tool.

Best thing the owner could do would be to locate the original design documentations. Then most of the work falls on the author, editor, photographer and technical writer.


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Ltdave
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Dec 29, 2018 07:20 |  #11

gewb wrote in post #18779788 (external link)
It is the "extensive documentation" that must be defined first. I've read some of those types of projects and this one will take a photographer, author, editor, one or two structural engineers and a seasoned technical writer. I would see the time as several months.

As a photographer it is not your job to do the documentation but to provide a flood of photos from overviews to pins and rivets, each mapped to locations on the structure. Drones will be your primary tool.

Best thing the owner could do would be to locate the original design documentations. Then most of the work falls on the author, editor, photographer and technical writer.


yes. all i intended to do was "provide a flood of photos..." ive done similar work in the past (with scales, protractors and with tape measures etc)...

the owners dont give one lick about its preservation or historical value, they just want it removed. the owners happen to be an "organization" (and it is quite certain the directors have NOT explained the immense cost of removal to the general membership) and the OTHER organization that is trying to save it, has available to the party in the first part, all of the design documents, patent application and approvals, a full on structural inspection report ad nauseum...

im hoping for any future work on this project, can be steered my way...




  
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gewb
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Dec 29, 2018 08:50 as a reply to  @ Ltdave's post |  #12

Oh my, what a mess.

Given that the important original documents are already available, the "preservation" group could provide you a list and map of important areas they think need to be photographed. BTW, that group will probably lose in any legal battle with the owner organization. But the ACE is the wild card.

As interesting as the project sounds, I would stay on the sidelines until the legal dust settles. Been there, done that, learned my lesson.


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J ­ Michael
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Dec 31, 2018 08:28 |  #13

Might the photography requirements be more the HABS
/HAER type? E.g. http://www.loc.gov/pic​tures/collection/hh/ (external link)




  
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Left ­ Handed ­ Brisket
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Dec 31, 2018 08:48 |  #14

You are selling to the property owner and should forget about everything else while putting together your plan. They obviously don't give a damn about the historical significance so any mention of that in your proposal will indicate you are not there solely to meet their needs.

Go in with a proposal to document the structure from a scientific POV. Tell them ground measurements will be included and attention to camera elevation/angle will be included with the final report. They apparently don't know anymore than you do, so see what kind of info you can track down on past demos. Show the developer that you will provide an organized report that should satisfy any need.

Any "fanciful" ideas you have of putting together "nice" photos should be on your own. Keep it strictly business with the developer.

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archfotos
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Jan 02, 2019 16:47 |  #15

I've bid on Hab projects before and have photographed projects such as this where the owner needed to have documentation(photos - for archive) before they could tear down and rebuild. $3,000 sounds a bit low. Don't let a bunch of internet voices (who may not even be working photographers or just shooting dollar items for eBay) persuade you to under value the photography and the production costs required. Any agreement (with a government agency) will need to be for a copyright transfer of the images.

The one element that needs to be addressed is the documentation requirements. They(HABS) can not give a straight answer and can be a nightmare for your client. Make sure your contract specifies what you/your client are too deliver; digital or do they need 4x5 film negatives. And if so probably archived: selenium toned negatives. And they want negatives processed a stupid way, and this and that...
One project I really truly wanted to help the client out but HABS...@#$%@ they could not give a straight answer to either me or a National engineering firm - I gave up (HABS are truly the worse example of government employees and the wall they create between themselves and the private sector)

Point is the photography most likely will not be the hard part - jumping through paperwork hoops for horrible government ogres that don't know what they want except trying to keep your client in limbo so the structure stays standing until one day it falls over and kills school children. They make Trump or any politician that want to fire government employees look like the good guy.


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