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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EF and EF-S Lenses 
Thread started 04 Jan 2019 (Friday) 13:37
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Hmm. Have we seen the end of EF/EF-S lenses?

 
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Jan 12, 2019 12:13 |  #181

Tom Reichner wrote in post #18790022 (external link)
.
Yes, this might be true for some shooting situations .... but for the vast majority of my shooting, shutter speed is of little or no concern. . So the "exposure triangle" doesn't demand that I raise the ISO, because I can just let the shutter speed drop down low to give me the exposure that I want. . Aperture and ISO are very important .... shutter speed, meh - just let it fall wherever it may; doesn't really matter.

.

Tom, that is pretty much what I do.. unless I'm trying to stop action... then I set the ISO to get right shutter speed, after i've selected the F stop I want.

I shot in AV and let the shutter speed flucuate. Use EC to fine tune things.


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Jan 12, 2019 13:03 |  #182

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18790048 (external link)
Then you fall into that last category I called out.

.

Yes. . That is obvious.


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Jan 12, 2019 13:22 |  #183

umphotography wrote in post #18790021 (external link)
Notice Sony has not introduced anything significant to improve ISO at the sensor level for the last 4-5 yrs. Why is that ?? Pretty simple. Light is crap at 25000. No sensor improvement in the world is going to fix that so supplemental lighting is the better option

I had to stand in the dark for about 20 minutes before I could even SEE well enough to aim my camera in the direction of the subject to focus and take a photo at EV-2!


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Jan 13, 2019 13:32 |  #184

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18790012 (external link)
If you frame the image the same way and are not focal length limited AND equalize the DOF on both, then you have to shut down the aperture on the FF and thus raise your ISO to compensate, assuming the shutter speed remains constant. That is one valid situation where the 7d2 and 5d4 are going to closely match each other.

...

I still don't buy it. (I'm quoting you, not because I disagree with you, but because it's easier than delving into John's argument, and you are plainly stating what one must do to get close to an even playing feild)

I REALLY don't buy it. Having shot the two side by side, and having opted for the 5D4 and cropping in many situations, real world ones, out in the desert etc,. one would have to do handstands and flips to get the 7D2 to be on par with the 5D4.

Frankly, when I'm shooting I don't have time for flips and handstands, so the 5D4 just wins out.
Why would anyone work to make their 5D4 less capable to get their 7D2 on an even playing field, when they can simply instead work to take advantage of the 5D4.. ;)


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Jan 13, 2019 13:39 |  #185

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #18790881 (external link)
I still don't buy it. (I'm quoting you, not because I disagree with you, but because it's easier than delving into John's argument, and you are plainly stating what one must do to get close to an even playing feild)

I REALLY don't buy it. Having shot the two side by side, and having opted for the 5D4 and cropping in many situations, real world ones, out in the desert etc,. one would have to do handstands and flips to get the 7D2 to be on par with the 5D4.

Frankly, when I'm shooting I don't have time for flips and handstands, so the 5D4 just wins out.
Why would anyone work to make their 5D4 less capable to get their 7D2 on an even playing field, when they can simply instead work to take advantage of the 5D4.. ;)

I agree with you. There are only ever limited situations where you would have both showing about the same level of noise for the same framing and DOF, but in every other situation where you have room to spare with shutter or focal length, you are going to go with the better camera.

I have both the 7D2 and 5D4, and I RARELY use the 7D2 any longer. If I am focal length challenged, and can use the 1.4x, then I do on the 5D4. Sure, due to the 1 stop slower shutter or more ISO, the noise levels get close to the 7D2, but it is still better at the pixel level, so again, I will reach for the better camera every...single...time.

I keep the 7D2 because a) I need a backup sports camera and b) I need 10fps in limited situations shooting sports. If the 5D4 had 10fps, the 7D2 would go. Great camera, I love it, but there is absolutely no reason to use it with all the other gear I have from different lenses, different teleconverters, and even an APS C M50 that will AF up to f11 with a 2x on the 100-400, which the 7D2 won't do. Heck, I can put the 2xIII on the Sigma and have 1200mm on the M50 with autofocus, so again, the 7D2 doesn't bring much to the table for what I shoot any longer.


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Jan 13, 2019 13:51 |  #186

I know some people that also own both, and will put the 7D2 on a big prime for "reach"

My quick side by side told me immediately that the 5D4 on a 500mm with no additional "reach" is the hands down winner. I've never put the 7D2 back on the 500mm.

5D4 with 500mm and 1.4x @ 700mm (very near what the crop factor would offer) is still a much better option than the 7D2 in all cases I have been faced with. Since I often shoot two bodies, and those two bodies 90% of the time is 5D4 and 7D2, I am very aware of each bodies advantages over the other,. and can see the results in the images.
Wildlife the 5D4 advantages are less obvious, get to events in low light, and quickly the 7D2 is very obviously handicapped in comparison.

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Jan 13, 2019 13:59 as a reply to  @ CyberDyneSystems's post |  #187

I agree, I have done both as well and compared, and tried to show those results earlier, and despite all the "7D2 is very close to the 5D4 in those conditions", I find the 5D4 better and just grab it instead of the 7D2.

I rarely can find a situation where I immediately grab the 7D2 these days.


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Jan 13, 2019 15:54 |  #188

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #18790881 (external link)
I still don't buy it. (I'm quoting you, not because I disagree with you, but because it's easier than delving into John's argument, and you are plainly stating what one must do to get close to an even playing feild)

I REALLY don't buy it. Having shot the two side by side, and having opted for the 5D4 and cropping in many situations, real world ones, out in the desert etc,. one would have to do handstands and flips to get the 7D2 to be on par with the 5D4.

Frankly, when I'm shooting I don't have time for flips and handstands, so the 5D4 just wins out.
Why would anyone work to make their 5D4 less capable to get their 7D2 on an even playing field, when they can simply instead work to take advantage of the 5D4.. ;)


Well its about time.

Finally someone agrees that the 5D4 is such a better choice than a crop 7D2 sensor. And to be very frank, I dont see anything they can do to this sensor to make a possible updated 7D3 remotely close unless they develop a new sensor.....And thats Not gonna happen with the R system going to market.. Now lets start arguing about servo performance :pbw!

7D2 looses as well in the department compared to a 5D4 as well. And when you compare to a 1Dx AF system, both 1Dx1 and 1Dx2, many will opt to sell off the 7D2's....as I did. 7D2 is just not close to these last 2 1Dx bodies for servo performance. Not saying its bad. But no where close to the 1Dx1 and 1Dx2 cameras....Thats why mine is sold. It became a static sitting bird camera when I needed reach. The 5D4 with a TC and a better sensor wins out every time


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Jan 14, 2019 07:02 |  #189

No idea what the last few pages have to do with the demise of the ef mount (had hoped the mods would redirect but hey...)
Back on topic, this thread and others espousing large scale crushing of glass that has served us well previously, have all failed to mention the huge increase in cost over ef equivalents. I'm out on cost alone as I get dizzy imagining the price of an R mount 400 f2.8.




  
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Jan 14, 2019 07:15 |  #190

bildeb0rg wrote in post #18791337 (external link)
Back on topic, this thread and others espousing large scale crushing of glass that has served us well previously, have all failed to mention the huge increase in cost over EF equivalents. I'm out on cost alone as I get dizzy imagining the price of an R mount 400 f2.8

.
Yeah, the cost thing is really going to suck. . Not with the little lenses they have now, because almost anyone can find a way to come up with a grand or two if they REALLY want something.

But when it comes to 400 f2.8, 600 f4, and 800 f5.6, those lenses are way out of most people's price range already. . I have to wait until a lens like that is really old, and then look for deals on eBay so that I can get a $10,000 lens for around $5,000. . The problem is, these supertelephoto R lenses haven't even been released yet. . So let's project that they release a 600mm f4 in 2021, for around $15,000. . Used copies wont drop down to the $5,000 range for a long long time. . I think it'll take until 2035 or thereabouts for used R mount 600mm f4 lenses to drop down to the $5,000 price level, which is what I can afford.

What good is a so-called higher quality lens if I won't be able to get one until I am in my late 60's and all crippled up and unable to hike around all day with it?

The whole thing is depressing because it leaves poor people out of the true supertelephoto loop.


.


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"Fare" and "fair" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one. The proper expression is "moot point", NOT "mute point".

  
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Jan 14, 2019 08:31 |  #191

bildeb0rg wrote in post #18791337 (external link)
No idea what the last few pages have to do with the demise of the ef mount (had hoped the mods would redirect but hey...)
Back on topic, this thread and others espousing large scale crushing of glass that has served us well previously, have all failed to mention the huge increase in cost over ef equivalents. I'm out on cost alone as get dizzy imagining the price of an R mount 400 f2.8


I personally believe all the comments about these Bodies is a direct correlation to the R mount lens and technology. The facts are pretty clear. Existing modern sensor technology with the High ISO performance capabilities and the larger mexapixel counts ( 30-50 is very common) are going to see optimum performance with higher end glass and better performance with the bodies with mirrorless technology. I just dont see eye focus ever being on option on a DSLR. They will never have IBIS on a DSLR. Technology will continue to advance camera capabilities and they will need to develop better glass that can get these sensors optics for best results. I read that 5K video is here and 8K video is on their way. I think at some point, especially for Stills, the bubble will burst...But we are not there yet with canon shooters and the move to R mounts


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Jan 14, 2019 09:35 |  #192

bildeb0rg wrote in post #18791337 (external link)
No idea what the last few pages have to do with the demise of the ef mount (had hoped the mods would redirect but hey...)
Back on topic, this thread and others espousing large scale crushing of glass that has served us well previously, have all failed to mention the huge increase in cost over ef equivalents. I'm out on cost alone as get dizzy imagining the price of an R mount 400 f2.8

I don't think anyone has been advocating the crushing of existing lenses, I surely was not in my OP, but merely exploring the possibility of no further development, or greatly slowed down development leading to the eventual demise of the EF/EF-S mount. As to the cost, all Canon equipment cost is high when first introduced and eventually comes down as the supply increases, no?


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Jan 14, 2019 12:10 |  #193

I am puzzled by the recent quibbling in this thread about whether the 5DIV sensor is 'better/equal' than the 7DII sensor! After all, it seems a concensus in the past that Canon sensors were well behind Sony-sourced sensors (in Sony and Nikon brand camera) and only with the launch of the 5DIV had Canon come close to its competition in terms of the ability to 'push' postprocess shadow detail in low light high ISO conditions. ...and the 5DIV launch was 23 months later than the 7DII !
(Then in 2017 was the bellyache that the entry-level 6DII did not blow the premium priced 5DIV out of the water in performance.)


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Jan 14, 2019 12:20 as a reply to  @ Wilt's post |  #194

The discussion was around conditions/situations where the 7D2 equivalent image is very close to the 5D4. The 7D2 sensor is unique in a sense to the latter APS-C, not the same DR in the low ISO ranges, but quite good elsewhere and also with electronic-introduced noise. Not worth spending alot of time on at this point, because both bodies are a bit old now, and hopefully with new mirrorless come new sensors.


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Jan 14, 2019 15:03 as a reply to  @ Wilt's post |  #195

I was under the impression that basically ALL sensors are Sony made. Does Canon make their own sensors???




  
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Hmm. Have we seen the end of EF/EF-S lenses?
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