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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 10 Oct 2018 (Wednesday) 10:05
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-= Canon EOS R owners unite! Post photos and discuss.

 
WilsonFlyer
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Jan 17, 2019 06:58 |  #2341

randy98mtu wrote in post #18793296 (external link)
You are absolutely right, Wilson. If you want small and compact as your key factors, full frame is it the place to look.

I think you meant "not," right?




  
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Two ­ Hot ­ Shoes
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Jan 17, 2019 08:11 |  #2342

Ya cannot change the laws of phsysics, unless you are German  :p
Leica F0.95 and Canon f/1.2
But you need a big optic for 135mm


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WilsonFlyer
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Jan 17, 2019 08:14 |  #2343

It's funny to me how so many people make mirorless about small and compact. To me, it's ALL about real-time feedback. 100%. To be able to look through that viewfinder and know EXACTLY what the outcome is going to be in real-time is the real value to me. I'm especially surprised how often others overlook what I think is singularly the most important aspect of removable lens mirrorless cameras.




  
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WilsonFlyer
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Jan 17, 2019 08:15 |  #2344

Two Hot Shoes wrote in post #18793323 (external link)
Ya cannot change the laws of phsysics, unless you are German  :p
Leica F0.95 and Canon f/1.2
But you need a big optic for 135mm
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./showthread.php?p=187​93323&i=i14381785
forum: Canon EOS Digital Cameras

You can have it:
1. Cheap
2. Right
3. Right now

Pick any two. You can't have all three. ;)




  
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crofter
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Jan 17, 2019 09:15 |  #2345

WilsonFlyer wrote in post #18793327 (external link)
It's funny to me how so many people make mirorless about small and compact. To me, it's ALL about real-time feedback. 100%. To be able to look through that viewfinder and know EXACTLY what the outcome is going to be in real-time is the real value to me. I'm especially surprised how often others overlook what I think is singularly the most important aspect of removable lens mirrorless cameras.

Likewise,I have the M50 and it's a great little camera but I'd like it to be a smidge bigger,looking forward to seeing the next R offering if it's a bit cheaper than the current one.


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WilsonFlyer
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Jan 17, 2019 09:29 |  #2346

crofter wrote in post #18793353 (external link)
Likewise,I have the M50 and it's a great little camera but I'd like it to be a smidge bigger,looking forward to seeing the next R offering if it's a bit cheaper than the current one.

I bought the EOS R at retail simply because I had been on the fence with Sony for a while knowing full well "my" Canon was coming. The R really should have been 1999 or 1899 even US, and I think it will be in a year or so. I just wasn't willing to wait any longer. The R is a great camera, but one thing I will say is that I doubt I would want one a "step below." Don't get me wrong. The R is completely full featured enough for me, and has things I will probably never use, but other than the control slider (Can't wait to see how they address this in the upcoming FW.), I simply can't imagine anything they could take away from it to knock off a couple of hundred bucks and me still be happy.

If you want an R, and especially if you're not waiting for the supposed next step up for a very good reason, I'd buy the R now. The wait and see game is a game you can play forever.




  
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John ­ Sheehy
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Jan 17, 2019 09:33 |  #2347

WilsonFlyer wrote in post #18793327 (external link)
It's funny to me how so many people make mirorless about small and compact. To me, it's ALL about real-time feedback. 100%. To be able to look through that viewfinder and know EXACTLY what the outcome is going to be in real-time is the real value to me. I'm especially surprised how often others overlook what I think is singularly the most important aspect of removable lens mirrorless cameras.

Real-time is not given by mirror-less. Mirror-less *must* have some lag, because you have to read a pixel before you read it and move it to the EVF. An OVF is real-time, because it takes the same amount of time for light to get to your retina through the OVF and ground glass, as if you had viewed the scene directly.

What you might mean, I think, is WYSIWYG default conversion characteristics (such as tone curve and WB), already in the EVF, as if you were viewing a video a fraction of a second after it was taken..




  
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David ­ Arbogast
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Jan 17, 2019 09:55 |  #2348

John Sheehy wrote in post #18793368 (external link)
Real-time is not given by mirror-less. Mirror-less *must* have some lag, because you have to read a pixel before you read it and move it to the EVF. An OVF is real-time, because it takes the same amount of time for light to get to your retina through the OVF and ground glass, as if you had viewed the scene directly.

What you might mean, I think, is WYSIWYG default conversion characteristics (such as tone curve and WB), already in the EVF, as if you were viewing a video a fraction of a second after it was taken..

OMG. :eek::rolleyes:


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Two ­ Hot ­ Shoes
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Post edited 10 months ago by Two Hot Shoes. (2 edits in all)
     
Jan 17, 2019 11:06 |  #2349

John Sheehy wrote in post #18793368 (external link)
Real-time is not given by mirror-less. Mirror-less *must* have some lag, because you have to read a pixel before you read it and move it to the EVF. An OVF is real-time, because it takes the same amount of time for light to get to your retina through the OVF and ground glass, as if you had viewed the scene directly.

What you might mean, I think, is WYSIWYG default conversion characteristics (such as tone curve and WB), already in the EVF, as if you were viewing a video a fraction of a second after it was taken..

Having used mirrorless for a few years now, I'll call you out on this one, in the real world. It's as in time as it gets but perhaps you reaction time is superhuman John.

Speaking of science stuff, it takes the average human ~50ms to 'see' an object but about 150ms to comprehend (for a normal everyday person). So you'r at least 50ms behind what has happened already yet somehow we manage to be amazing at catching balls and other fast paced stuff like motor racing. That is because we anticipate any moment as it is about to happen. I think somehow the tiny amount of time a camera takes to read to a display is probably close enough, especially in todays 'lag free' cameras like the X-T3. In the real world anyway.


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CyberDyneSystems
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Jan 17, 2019 11:26 |  #2350

I've not picked up an EOS R yet, or the latest SONY, but I have a Fuji that everyone on this and other forums told me, insisted, I would not see lag, that I would love the EVF.

Well I love the Fuji, but I don't love the EVF, and lag is very real for an action shooter. In Botswana the two Fuji kits that came along for the ride, mine and our guides, both were relegated to snapshots around the campfire after a few days trial in the field.

Like I said, perhaps they have/will some day NOT be a handicap, but people said this for years before it was true, so many of us hvae to take it with a grain of salt.
(A similar thing went on with LCD monitors. Long after CRTs were unavailable, LCD's still had not caught up to the best AG CRT. Of course now LCD has surpassed, but there was a good 5 years where the best color editing monitor was an old discontinued Sony CRT)


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WilsonFlyer
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Jan 17, 2019 11:33 |  #2351

John Sheehy wrote in post #18793368 (external link)
Real-time is not given by mirror-less. Mirror-less *must* have some lag, because you have to read a pixel before you read it and move it to the EVF. An OVF is real-time, because it takes the same amount of time for light to get to your retina through the OVF and ground glass, as if you had viewed the scene directly.

What you might mean, I think, is WYSIWYG default conversion characteristics (such as tone curve and WB), already in the EVF, as if you were viewing a video a fraction of a second after it was taken..

You say potato. I say potato. Wait. That's the same thing.




  
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John ­ Sheehy
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Jan 17, 2019 12:39 |  #2352

WilsonFlyer wrote in post #18793409 (external link)
You say potato. I say potato. Wait. That's the same thing.

You said potato, twice. I am only saying it here once, to mention your mention.

What you said is not a good choice of words; EVFs are not "real-time". They're very good proxies for tonal levels in default conversions.




  
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WilsonFlyer
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Jan 17, 2019 12:47 |  #2353

John Sheehy wrote in post #18793432 (external link)
You said potato, twice. I am only saying it here once, to mention your mention.

What you said is not a good choice of words; EVFs are not "real-time". They're very good proxies for tonal levels in default conversions.

Well, I call BS and semantics. You can call it what you please as that's up to you. Everybody here except you know what I meant. You can argue just to argue but that doesn't make you right.




  
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Jan 17, 2019 14:13 |  #2354

Two Hot Shoes wrote in post #18793323 (external link)
Ya cannot change the laws of phsysics, unless you are German  :p
Leica F0.95 and Canon f/1.2
But you need a big optic for 135mm
thumbnail
Hosted photo: posted by Two Hot Shoes in
./showthread.php?p=187​93323&i=i14381785
forum: Canon EOS Digital Cameras

I didn't know that Leica lens had an AF motor?


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Two ­ Hot ­ Shoes
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Post edited 10 months ago by Two Hot Shoes.
     
Jan 17, 2019 15:03 as a reply to  @ Gel's post |  #2355

The point is it's not necessarily the optics needing large lenses as others were suggesting. But not always sometimes lenses are made with large bits of glass to over throw the sensor size so the best part of the optic is used onto the sensor...


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Pointless really

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