Approve the Cookies
This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and our Privacy Policy.
OK
Index  •   • New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Guest
New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Register to forums    Log in

 
FORUMS Photo Sharing & Visual Enjoyment Sports 
Thread started 22 Feb 2019 (Friday) 15:09
Search threadPrev/next
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

Soccer photos...need suggestions for "soft" images

 
bestill4me
Member
Avatar
79 posts
Gallery: 6 photos
Likes: 6
Joined Nov 2012
Location: Texas
     
Feb 22, 2019 15:09 |  #1

Hello to all,

It's been a while since I have posted....but I do love the information available on this forum.

I am hoping to get suggestions on these images. These are images taken of my grandson playing soccer. The time of day is around 5 PM. The photos were taken with my 5D Mark IV and my Canon 70-200 2.8 II. I use single point auto focus, back button focus. The camera on these shots was in Av mode....3.5 f-stop. I adjust the ISO to always keep the shutter speed above 1/800. I have used Canon Digital Professional 4 to check my focus point. The focus point on these images is on the chest of number 12. I use a monopod in a standing position to try to help keep the camera stable. I do tend to crop images...sometimes heavy cropping. I was standing on the sideline at mid-field when these were taken and the players are running towards me. Having said all of that I hope to get sharper images. I love this lens and I know it is capable of great images. Also I suspect camera movement is causing the soft images. I do use Lightroom for post processing but lately I have just been cropping the JPEG images right out of lightroom (not other adjusting) vs using RAW files and adjusting color, sharpness, etc.

The last image is not cropped....the first two are cropped. All three of these images were shot with SS 1/800, 3.5 f-stop, ISO 320

I would love to hear any suggestions.

I have not posted images in a very long time. I hope these file sizes are OK....if not just let me know.

Thank you in advance.

IMAGE: https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7915/47177789511_794ed8acac_h.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://www.flickr.com …562047968/in/ph​otostream/  (external link) on Flickr

IMAGE: https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7919/46454357894_4c0d6303d8_h.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://www.flickr.com …454357894/in/ph​otostream/  (external link)
7L2A4112 (external link) by bbqdude59 (external link) on Flickr

IMAGE: https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7834/46454362394_b3e35383ca_h.jpg

_____________
Don
Canon 5D Mark IV, Canon 24-70 2.8 IIL, Canon 70-200 F2.8L IS II, Canon 600 EX-RT, Canon 580 EX

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)
john ­ crossley
Goldmember
Avatar
2,905 posts
Likes: 1066
Joined Nov 2009
     
Feb 22, 2019 16:44 |  #2

bestill4me wrote in post #18816596 (external link)
Hello to all,

It's been a while since I have posted....but I do love the information available on this forum.

I am hoping to get suggestions on these images. These are images taken of my grandson playing soccer. The time of day is around 5 PM. The photos were taken with my 5D Mark IV and my Canon 70-200 2.8 II. I use single point auto focus, back button focus. The camera on these shots was in Av mode....3.5 f-stop. I adjust the ISO to always keep the shutter speed above 1/800. I have used Canon Digital Professional 4 to check my focus point. The focus point on these images is on the chest of number 12. I use a monopod in a standing position to try to help keep the camera stable. I do tend to crop images...sometimes heavy cropping. I was standing on the sideline at mid-field when these were taken and the players are running towards me. Having said all of that I hope to get sharper images. I love this lens and I know it is capable of great images. Also I suspect camera movement is causing the soft images. I do use Lightroom for post processing but lately I have just been cropping the JPEG images right out of lightroom (not other adjusting) vs using RAW files and adjusting color, sharpness, etc.

The last image is not cropped....the first two are cropped. All three of these images were shot with SS 1/800, 3.5 f-stop, ISO 320

I would love to hear any suggestions.

I have not posted images in a very long time. I hope these file sizes are OK....if not just let me know.

Thank you in advance.

QUOTED IMAGE
IMAGE LINK: https://www.flickr.com …562047968/in/ph​otostream/  (external link) on Flickr

QUOTED IMAGE
IMAGE LINK: https://www.flickr.com …454357894/in/ph​otostream/  (external link)
7L2A4112 (external link) by bbqdude59 (external link) on Flickr

QUOTED IMAGE

Well if you are having to crop away 70% of the pixels I would suggest either waiting until the action gets closer to you so that it fills the frame or use a longer lens. I would also suggest that you use a faster shutter speed as you seem to have plenty of available light to do so. The black shirts of the players may also be contributing to focusing issues that you have.


I've just caught my wedding vegetables in the flange!!!

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
TeamSpeed
01010100 01010011
Avatar
38,578 posts
Gallery: 115 photos
Best ofs: 2
Likes: 7126
Joined May 2002
Location: Midwest
Post edited over 1 year ago by TeamSpeed. (2 edits in all)
     
Feb 22, 2019 16:45 |  #3

Always go aggressive with shutter speeds on sports, even if you venture into undesirable ISO ranges. Noise can be combated, motion cannot. The 5D4 is more than capable at many ISO stops above 320.

That is my guideline #1 for sports shooters.

However it appears with your images, there might be more afoot than just motion blur. Even if you had moved to 1/1600 at ISO 640, I think your lens/body is either front focusing, or you may want to go though your AI Servo AF settings (the AF cases). Chances are one of these two things are at work with your gear.

As to cropping, I wouldn't worry about too much, the 5D4 has wonderful resolution and detail to allow you to crop tightly at lower ISOs.


Past Equipment | My Personal Gallery (external link) My Business Gallery (external link)
For Sale: Sigma USB Dock

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
bestill4me
THREAD ­ STARTER
Member
Avatar
79 posts
Gallery: 6 photos
Likes: 6
Joined Nov 2012
Location: Texas
     
Feb 22, 2019 16:54 as a reply to  @ john crossley's post |  #4

Thank you John!!!


_____________
Don
Canon 5D Mark IV, Canon 24-70 2.8 IIL, Canon 70-200 F2.8L IS II, Canon 600 EX-RT, Canon 580 EX

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
bestill4me
THREAD ­ STARTER
Member
Avatar
79 posts
Gallery: 6 photos
Likes: 6
Joined Nov 2012
Location: Texas
     
Feb 22, 2019 17:03 as a reply to  @ TeamSpeed's post |  #5

Thank you....I am currently using AF Case number 1.....maybe I will try 4 or 5. I have read about "Micro" focus adjusting but have hesitated to mess with it.


_____________
Don
Canon 5D Mark IV, Canon 24-70 2.8 IIL, Canon 70-200 F2.8L IS II, Canon 600 EX-RT, Canon 580 EX

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
TeamSpeed
01010100 01010011
Avatar
38,578 posts
Gallery: 115 photos
Best ofs: 2
Likes: 7126
Joined May 2002
Location: Midwest
     
Feb 22, 2019 17:28 |  #6

bestill4me wrote in post #18816670 (external link)
Thank you....I am currently using AF Case number 1.....maybe I will try 4 or 5. I have read about "Micro" focus adjusting but have hesitated to mess with it.

The cases are just placeholders, you can stay with case 1 and just move the sliders around. It will always keep the "factory settings" as gray markers. No need to flip between them unless you want to set up a few different AF scenarios. It is much like custom picture style slots.

You can't hurt the camera with micro adjustments, all you are doing is telling the camera to calculate a lens position, then send that + your adjustment value. They are just profiles per lens like AF cases or picture styles.

When you shoot that lens again, go the lens adjustment, go to the long end, and put in about +7 and test. If too much take some away, if grass is still in focus in front of the players add more.


Past Equipment | My Personal Gallery (external link) My Business Gallery (external link)
For Sale: Sigma USB Dock

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
pat.kane
Senior Member
Avatar
693 posts
Likes: 138
Joined May 2005
Location: Arlington, VA
     
Feb 22, 2019 18:23 |  #7

It is buried in TeamSpeed's post, but just to make sure, you are using AI Servo and not one shot, correct?

The first photo in the sequence is sharp enough to beg the question why the second is as well unless you're not getting it to track correctly.

Since you're cropping, it's worth straightening your horizons as well.


1Dx Mk II, 5D4 and some L glass (gear list / feedback)
http://MaxPreps.DMVpix​.com (external link)
http://www.DMVpix.com (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Croasdail
making stuff up
7,792 posts
Gallery: 19 photos
Likes: 681
Joined Apr 2005
Location: North Carolina
Post edited over 1 year ago by Croasdail.
     
Feb 22, 2019 18:37 |  #8

Problem is looking at flicker, some of the shots you posted there are spot on, while others (7L2A4112) I can't find anything in focus. First image you posted is in focus on number 12. Nice sharp area of turf beneath them. Usually you can look at the turf to see where the actual focus was, but it is alluding me on the middle shot. If anything it looks like focus was a smidge ahead of the ball... but even then.... I'm not sold on it. And at 1/800 you should have had enough shutter speed to freeze something. It's not a micro adjustment because others in the sequence are spot on, so it can find focus. I would almost have to guess because the whole frame is out of focus is that it was camera shake as you panned to capture the image. Was IS on? Was it in mode 2 or 1 if on?

Like TeamSpeed said, you have plenty of headroom to go higher in ISO. 800 is a very safe space with that camera. (Even 1000 t0 1600 is really safe) The images also look a little flat, so exposing a 1/3 to 1/2 stop at least higher would help get some definition back into the jerseys. If you are not happy with the first and third shot, have you already added some sharpening to them?

Middle shot is goofy... wish I had a magic bullet solution for you. Get that ISO and shutter speed up there and see if that solves the issue.

EDIT

Soccer at this age just isn't that fast... so you shouldn't need to use AI Servo... though it never hurts.

How are you telling the camera to acquire the image - half press of the shutter or back button focus? That camera and lens combo should be fast enough to deal with either style, but it would help diagnose what is going on.


Mark
Its by knowing and mastering all the rules that you learn which ones you can break.

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
TeamSpeed
01010100 01010011
Avatar
38,578 posts
Gallery: 115 photos
Best ofs: 2
Likes: 7126
Joined May 2002
Location: Midwest
     
Feb 22, 2019 20:00 |  #9

Here is a quick edit to show how just a bit of post processing can help with the image too, beyond the in-camera technicalities.


HOSTED PHOTO
please log in to view hosted photos in full size.


Past Equipment | My Personal Gallery (external link) My Business Gallery (external link)
For Sale: Sigma USB Dock

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
bestill4me
THREAD ­ STARTER
Member
Avatar
79 posts
Gallery: 6 photos
Likes: 6
Joined Nov 2012
Location: Texas
     
Feb 23, 2019 11:07 as a reply to  @ TeamSpeed's post |  #10

Thank you all for your insights. TeamSpeed thank so much for the suggestions and the post processing you did.....it does look much better. Did you do that with Lightroom sharpening slider? What other adjustments did you make?

This has been a real education. I will do some testing with the auto focus cases and see the results. I will also take a look at micro focus. I have been a little to timid to make any changes in these.

Just for additional details....I do shoot in Al Servo when shooting sports. Also I use back button focus all the time. I have not used Image Stabilization on the lens. Maybe I should give it a try. My understanding has been that IS is generally used for low light, slow shutter speed, hand held shooting. Another factor I had not mentioned is that I am currently having RAW and JPEG files write to both card slots simultaneously. When my grandson is involved in a longer play I am "machine-gunning" to try to catch the action.

As I look back over more of the images from that game it does seem to me that there is a theme of soft images....so I do think something is going on....I guess it is possible that hand movement could be a factor....also it was a VERY windy day....but I do use a mono pod to help steady.

I think going forward I will attempt to get closer to the players. I will definitely try faster shutter speed and higher ISO.


_____________
Don
Canon 5D Mark IV, Canon 24-70 2.8 IIL, Canon 70-200 F2.8L IS II, Canon 600 EX-RT, Canon 580 EX

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
silvex
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
7,309 posts
Gallery: 21 photos
Likes: 52
Joined Sep 2006
Location: Southern California, USA
     
Feb 23, 2019 12:40 |  #11

I would recommend M mode, F/2.8 ISO 1600 and expose first for the sky (daytime) or grass for night time. for tracking use mode 3. On the lens mode 1.


.
-Ed
CPS Platinum Member.
Canon Gear
SilvexPhoto.comexternal link

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
bestill4me
THREAD ­ STARTER
Member
Avatar
79 posts
Gallery: 6 photos
Likes: 6
Joined Nov 2012
Location: Texas
     
Feb 23, 2019 13:19 as a reply to  @ silvex's post |  #12

Thanks silvex....I'll give it a try.


_____________
Don
Canon 5D Mark IV, Canon 24-70 2.8 IIL, Canon 70-200 F2.8L IS II, Canon 600 EX-RT, Canon 580 EX

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Dan ­ Knowlton
I love myrtle!
146 posts
Gallery: 1 photo
Likes: 15
Joined Sep 2009
Location: La Mesa, CA (San Diego area)
     
Mar 02, 2019 19:51 |  #13

If you are looking for a longer lens - I LOVE my Sigma 150-600 Sport lens. I used it on a tripod with a gimbal mount and it worked great!

Dan




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
iowajim
Senior Member
Avatar
518 posts
Gallery: 3 photos
Likes: 53
Joined Mar 2011
Location: North Central Iowa
     
Mar 02, 2019 21:28 |  #14

bestill4me wrote in post #18817060 (external link)
Thank you all for your insights. TeamSpeed thank so much for the suggestions and the post processing you did.....it does look much better. Did you do that with Lightroom sharpening slider? What other adjustments did you make?

This has been a real education. I will do some testing with the auto focus cases and see the results. I will also take a look at micro focus. I have been a little to timid to make any changes in these.

Just for additional details....I do shoot in Al Servo when shooting sports. Also I use back button focus all the time. I have not used Image Stabilization on the lens. Maybe I should give it a try. My understanding has been that IS is generally used for low light, slow shutter speed, hand held shooting. Another factor I had not mentioned is that I am currently having RAW and JPEG files write to both card slots simultaneously. When my grandson is involved in a longer play I am "machine-gunning" to try to catch the action.

As I look back over more of the images from that game it does seem to me that there is a theme of soft images....so I do think something is going on....I guess it is possible that hand movement could be a factor....also it was a VERY windy day....but I do use a mono pod to help steady.

I think going forward I will attempt to get closer to the players. I will definitely try faster shutter speed and higher ISO.

At those shutter speeds, image stabilization wont help. I shoot 1/640 or 1/800 when i can, or faster on a bright day. If you think you have a focus issue, you might try testing the camera at representative distances to see whats going on. For instance, shoot a street curb to see where your focus lands.

Dan Knowlton wrote in post #18821806 (external link)
If you are looking for a longer lens - I LOVE my Sigma 150-600 Sport lens. I used it on a tripod with a gimbal mount and it worked great!

Dan

I tried my 150-500 C for soccer, but didnt care for it. When the players are that far away, too often the traffic blocks the shot, and the wide end isnt wide enough when they are close by. Thats on a crop camera though.


Jim, in Iowa
80D / T2i / Tokina 11-16mm f2.8 / Sigma 18-35mm f1.8 / Canon 24-105 f4 / Tamron SP VC 70-200mm f2.8 / Sigma 150-600mm C

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
bestill4me
THREAD ­ STARTER
Member
Avatar
79 posts
Gallery: 6 photos
Likes: 6
Joined Nov 2012
Location: Texas
     
Mar 04, 2019 15:01 |  #15

Thank you Dan Knowlton and iowajim...I appreciate your comments!!!


_____________
Don
Canon 5D Mark IV, Canon 24-70 2.8 IIL, Canon 70-200 F2.8L IS II, Canon 600 EX-RT, Canon 580 EX

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

1,925 views & 4 likes for this thread
Soccer photos...need suggestions for "soft" images
FORUMS Photo Sharing & Visual Enjoyment Sports 
AAA
x 1600
y 1600

Jump to forum...   •  Rules   •  Index   •  New posts   •  RTAT   •  'Best of'   •  Gallery   •  Gear   •  Reviews   •  Member list   •  Polls   •  Image rules   •  Search   •  Password reset

Not a member yet?
Register to forums
Registered members may log in to forums and access all the features: full search, image upload, follow forums, own gear list and ratings, likes, more forums, private messaging, thread follow, notifications, own gallery, all settings, view hosted photos, own reviews, see more and do more... and all is free. Don't be a stranger - register now and start posting!


COOKIES DISCLAIMER: This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and to our privacy policy.
Privacy policy and cookie usage info.


POWERED BY AMASS forum software 2.1forum software
version 2.1 /
code and design
by Pekka Saarinen ©
for photography-on-the.net

Latest registered member was a spammer, and banned as such!
940 guests, 283 members online
Simultaneous users record so far is 15144, that happened on Nov 22, 2018

Photography-on-the.net Digital Photography Forums is the website for photographers and all who love great photos, camera and post processing techniques, gear talk, discussion and sharing. Professionals, hobbyists, newbies and those who don't even own a camera -- all are welcome regardless of skill, favourite brand, gear, gender or age. Registering and usage is free.