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FORUMS General Gear Talk Changing Camera Brands 
Thread started 05 Jan 2019 (Saturday) 19:38
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I Never Thought I Would Leave Canon

 
Archibald
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Jan 06, 2019 10:39 |  #16

gjl711 wrote in post #18785775 (external link)
If your looking for a birding camera, are open to bridge cameras, might check out the Nikon P1000. I got to play with one a while back and the zoom is simply insane. Nothing out there comes close to it's 3000mm telephoto.

Interesting! Might be fun to play with. But I note the sensor is tiny, about half the width of the RX10 sensor, so 1/4 the area. It will need a ton of light.


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Archibald
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Jan 06, 2019 10:40 |  #17

kf095 wrote in post #18785779 (external link)
Is this Sony camera with zoom by wire? For some it is OK, but to me if I can't zoom in and out by hand, it is slow camera in use.

Yes, zoom by wire, and it is slow.


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Jan 06, 2019 10:57 |  #18

Archibald wrote in post #18785780 (external link)
Interesting! Might be fun to play with. But I note the sensor is tiny, about half the width of the RX10 sensor, so 1/4 the area. It will need a ton of light.

Certainly it will be no match for a 7D and any of Canons long lenses, but it is compact, less than 1k, supports raw and manual focus, and the quality is pretty decent. I'm just tossing out other options.


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Archibald
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Jan 06, 2019 13:44 |  #19

gjl711 wrote in post #18785792 (external link)
Certainly it will be no match for a 7D and any of Canons long lenses, but it is compact, less than 1k, supports raw and manual focus, and the quality is pretty decent. I'm just tossing out other options.

The Achilles heel is that at 3000mm, the max aperture shrinks to a minuscule f/8, and that is too small for diffraction with such a small sensor. That huge focal length is the main attraction of the camera, though. That feature determined its large size. And its performance at that FL is bad. The camera can of course be used successfully at more normal focal lengths, but you don't need such a large camera for that. So IMO the design is a failure.


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Airedale1
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Jan 06, 2019 16:47 |  #20

Archibald wrote in post #18785527 (external link)
I have the 7D2, 100-400mm II and 1.4X III and enjoy these greatly. Like you I shoot a lot of birds. This combo works great for that.

But this gear is heavy and after a few days of shooting with it, I tend to get a backache. Even if I don't get to the point where my back complains, a day of shooting with the 7D2/100-400II is tiring for me.

With this in mind, I bought the Sony RX10 IV about a month ago. It is actually a fairly big camera and is heavy for its size. But it is a lot lighter than the 7D2/100-400II.

I haven't had the opportunity to explore the new camera as much as I would want, but I have some initial impressions. The first is that the results are not that great in poor light, because that forces you to higher ISOs. At those higher ISOs, especially if you have to crop, the IQ can fall apart. On the other hand, in good light, the camera makes great pics. It is very good at tracking birds in flight.

The menu system is famously dumb. But I deal with that by writing down the settings I need for different situations together with exactly where to find each of the relevant settings.

The silent shutter and lack of viewfinder blackout is a great advantage when doing continuous shooting.

Cropping can lose IQ fast if you are not at the lowest ISOs, a result of the small sensor. (BTW, the so-called 1-inch sensor is only 1/2 inch wide.)

Exposure control and auto white balance do not work as dependably with the RX10 IV as I am used to with Canon. I find that a bit odd because I would have thought that Sony would have figured out better algorithms for this. On the other hand, I am amazed at how well Canon does this. Anyway, white balance is easy to fix in post if you shoot raw. Under- and over-exposure is not always so easy to fix without losing some IQ.

The RX10 IV sometimes exhibits flare, and it can be bad if there is a lot of bright light outside the frame. I've noticed this when shooting at the full 600mm equiv. I attribute the flare to the wide angle lens shade, which is not very good at blocking stray light when shooting tele.

I don't know if you do macro, but I figured out a way to do macro with it. It seems to work well. So far I don't have much experience with that, though, because of the lack of subjects here (being it is winter).

Besides being great for BIFs in good light, the camera is very versatile and is a great vacation camera.

I will be doing a photo trip soon and will take the 7D2 combo as my main gear, because it gives better results than the RX10 IV. But I will take the RX10 as a backup and for casual shooting, and in case the 7D2 becomes too tiring.

Thank you for sharing all of your experience. It is very interesting and informative. Much appreciated!


Sony RX10 M4
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Airedale1
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Jan 06, 2019 16:52 |  #21

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #18785596 (external link)
Is it the Zoom range?
- G3x with 25x zoom.
- SX 540 HS
- SX 70 HS (or SX 60 HS)

Jake the 24 to 600 zoom range of the RX10 is certainly a factor for me and coupled with the 24 FPS and video capability it seems to me to be in a class by itself.


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Airedale1
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Jan 06, 2019 16:54 |  #22

Choderboy wrote in post #18785685 (external link)
I agree with Archibald's opinions, I'll add some of my own thoughts.

The RX10M4 is very good. For concentrating on specific types of shooting or subjects a DSLR will beat it easily.

For example a 7D2 with a 400 5.6, you could crop 50%, ie use about half the horizontal and vertical pixels resulting in about 5 Megapixels and under a lot of circumstances make a nicer 8x12 print than the full RX10 image would IMHO. You could use ISO 1600 on the 7D2 to keep the shutter speed up and still lift the shadows a bit. An 80D would be very similar, give a little away in high ISO, gain a few more pixels.

With the RX10's IBIS I can usually get sharp results at less than 1/200 sec (at 600mm equiv) and mine is very sharp at f4.5. From what I have seen most are sharp at f4, mine is a little less than the best.
It can shoot at 24fps which will sometimes get the shot a much slower frame rate won't.
The Sony has good customisation, 3 buttons you can assign custom functions to.

If you think you might try some video the RX10 provides a lot of bang for the buck.

It's in a class of it's own IMHO.

Thank you Dave, I agree with your assessment.


Sony RX10 M4
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dansmail26
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Jan 10, 2019 20:44 |  #23

Have you considered the M43 format, going with Olympus E-M1-mark ii or Panasonic G9? They are light, very responsive and have very versatile economical lenses. I have seen some amazing birding pics taken with them. Remember, they are a 2x equivalent to ff lenses.


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Charlie
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Jan 10, 2019 23:54 |  #24

Airedale1 wrote in post #18785982 (external link)
Jake the 24 to 600 zoom range of the RX10 is certainly a factor for me and coupled with the 24 FPS and video capability it seems to me to be in a class by itself.

Indeed, a class by itself. The closest you can get is a DSLR + 18-400 tamron. The size means that you can have the camera without killing yourself, not easy having 600mm FOV. 7D2 or D500 + 18-400 would be most flexible, but not 24fps. I've considered the camera to replace all my long lenses, would guarantee having a lot of reach for travels, always come back to the question..... Do I really need it?


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Jan 11, 2019 02:19 |  #25

I’ve had a couple P/S super zooms over the years (Canon Sx models and G3x) and was never really fond of them, especially for BIF.

For a smaller/lighter non-DSLR option in that price range I think I would lean towards Canon M50 for around $600 and Tamron 18-400mm w/adapter for another $600. 29-640mm equivalent, much larger sensor.


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Charlie
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Jan 11, 2019 08:00 |  #26

LoneRider wrote in post #18789183 (external link)
I’ve had a couple P/S super zooms over the years (Canon Sx models and G3x) and was never really fond of them, especially for BIF.

For a smaller/lighter non-DSLR option in that price range I think I would lean towards Canon M50 for around $600 and Tamron 18-400mm w/adapter for another $600. 29-640mm equivalent, much larger sensor.

my guess is that the M50 has nothing on the rx10 when it comes to BIF

those little RX cameras have far greater DOF due to smaller sensors, and 24 fps is blazing fast.

I've seen BIF in that thread, quite a bit of it: https://photography-on-the.net …ead.php?t=14867​22&page=61

You would need to have at least a 7D to get anywhere near the burst speed. I havent played with the rx10 but have with the rx100, and while they lack in many places compared to big sensors, they are surprisingly fast. I've also had canon P&s in the past, the s models and nothing like the rx.

biggest downside is high ISO. Past ISO 800, and you're in a world of trouble FAST.


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Jan 11, 2019 09:38 |  #27

Charlie wrote in post #18789268 (external link)
my guess is that the M50 has nothing on the rx10 when it comes to BIF

those little RX cameras have far greater DOF due to smaller sensors, and 24 fps is blazing fast.

I've seen BIF in that thread, quite a bit of it: https://photography-on-the.net …ead.php?t=14867​22&page=61

You would need to have at least a 7D to get anywhere near the burst speed. I havent played with the rx10 but have with the rx100, and while they lack in many places compared to big sensors, they are surprisingly fast. I've also had canon P&s in the past, the s models and nothing like the rx.

biggest downside is high ISO. Past ISO 800, and you're in a world of trouble FAST.

The RX cameras are great, but I would not get them for the DOF. As far as I understand DOF and diffraction, if you shoot cameras with different sensor sizes at equivalent apertures, you will end up with the same DOF and the same diffraction. As an example, shooting FF at f/22, crop at f/16 and RX10 at f/8 should all give approximately the same DOF and diffraction. Oh, and cell phones with their minuscule sensors - they are pretty well fixed at f/2.


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Charlie
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Jan 11, 2019 09:46 |  #28

Archibald wrote in post #18789306 (external link)
The RX cameras are great, but I would not get them for the DOF. As far as I understand DOF and diffraction, if you shoot cameras with different sensor sizes at equivalent apertures, you will end up with the same DOF and the same diffraction. As an example, shooting FF at f/22, crop at f/16 and RX10 at f/8 should all give approximately the same DOF and diffraction. Oh, and cell phones with their minuscule sensors - they are pretty well fixed at f/2.

greater DOF meaning more in focus rather than background blur. I havent use the rx10 in particular, but the rx100 quite a bit. Basically very little background blur, hence focus is not as heavily burdened.

when using the RX100, I tried to shoot wide open at all times, even tripod, stopped down minimally. Nice thing is that the optics seemed solid wide open, not much or any improvement stopped down.


Sony A7riii/A9 - FE 12-24/4 - FE 24-240 - SY 24/2.8 - FE 28/2 - FE 35/2.8 - FE 50/1.8 - FE 85/1.8 - EF 135/1.8 Art - F 600/5.6 - CZ 100-300 - Astro Rok 14/2.8 - Tamron 17-28/2.8 - 28-75/2.8 RXD, 70-200/2.8 VC

  
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Apr 24, 2019 07:51 |  #29

So, did you make the switch?

Have a number of friends who have gone to Sony. Many of them have gone back to what they used before for two main reasons. Sony was not comfortable to use because of its body design and its menu system.

Both the Canon and Nikon shooters who tried and dumped the Sony gear went either to Fuji or back to what they had before - the brand, if not the specific bodies. Handling was the main complaint, the Sony bodies they tried just were not comfortable in use.


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Apr 24, 2019 10:09 |  #30

I left Canon to. Canon F-1s in the film days and went Canon digital in 2005. All Leica M digital now. NO REGRETS. The M 10 is amazing and there is not another camera out there like it. I also have an MM and again nothing else like it out there and they both feel great in your hands and are very simple to use.




  
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