Why is the RP getting so much flack?

soeren wrote in post #18852557
I think the Main reason for the flocking is everybody expected Canon to wipe the floor with the competition on their first mirrorless release. Instead they released some cameras that in many ways are a generation behind while solid picturetakers the are still bested by Sony on specs and features. Looking at how the try to protest their DSLR line it seems like Canon are trying to eat the cake and have it too sitting down between two chairs

I 'think' I understand what you're saying

Personally however, I care much less about bells and whistles, knobs, dials, menus - much more about the image. Sure, I accept that handling etc is vitally important to some people, but I fear that, sometimes, it sways people more than it should.

kmilo wrote in post #18846475
I don't think it tracks moving subjects as well as my 80D. The real test (for me) will be in a couple of weeks when my kids start soccer for the season. I have no doubt it'll be "good enough".

The 80D should track and lock onto intended subjects better than the RP, but good luck in your quest!

Have you tried AI Servo with the RP currently? You have two things working against you.

- Wider FOV than the 80D
- Larger AF point than the 80D

The RP may track well, but what it wants to track is going to be very difficult vs the 80D. You may find it tracks the wrong kids pretty often.

soeren wrote in post #18852557
I think the Main reason for the flocking is everybody expected Canon to wipe the floor with the competition on their first mirrorless release. Instead they released some cameras that in many ways are a generation behind while solid picturetakers the are still bested by Sony on specs and features. Looking at how the try to protest their DSLR line it seems like Canon are trying to eat the cake and have it too sitting down between two chairs

Canon's high ISO performance in the 10D was the reason I went with the Canon proprietary system back in 2003, as sad as that camera seems now at high ISOs compared to more recent cameras. Canon is getting very disappointing lately. The best they have for high ISO is the 1DxII, and for someone who is focal-length limited and cropping most of that 36x24mm frame most of the time, m43 sensors are outperforming an m43 crop from the 1DxII, in both visible noise and resolution.

Both R cameras are steps back in noise. The character of the noise in the R is a little blotchier than that in the 5D4 deep in shadows or at very high ISOs. The RP noise is pretty much the same as the 6D2; very good in medium high ISOs in the brighter, photon-dominated tones and excellent with slide-film-like "perfect exposure", but not very forgiving deep in the shadows at lower ISOs and at higher tones in very high ISOs. The 6D2 and RP have base ISO DR reminiscent of the 5D3, which was already behind the competition when it was released.

Sure, lots of people will do most of their photography in conditions where the RP and 6D2 will give good results most of the time, but some of us are drawn to things with very weak light quality, like shooting wildlife in shaded areas, where there is little ambient red light to speak of, for cameras that are very insensitive to red light to begin with, where you get lots of red-channel noise. Such people need less visible read noise in their "upgrades".

With their latest financial numbers, I don't think Canon is going to have the R&D to really put into their systems to make any real strides in the near future. The ISO performance and sensor tech is likely going to stall a bit IMO. A company cannot sustain 20% drop from last year in demand and still concentrate in any meaningful way in that business unit.

Demand dropped more than Canon predicted from even at the beginning of the year, and they will reevaluate their plans for what to bring to the market. That won't be promising for those wanting better sensor tech, I suspect.

https://photorumors.co​m …ine-in-sales-and-profits/

They do blame smartphones, but I think too, part of the equation is that many of the offerings are just good enough and people have slowed their tech purchases accordingly. I know personally that the 5D4 is so good at so many things that I have stopped looking for other cameras other than something for more travel friendly gear like their mirrorless.

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18852622
With their latest financial numbers, I don't think Canon is going to have the R&D to really put into their systems to make any real strides in the near future. The ISO performance and sensor tech is likely going to stall a bit IMO. A company cannot sustain 20% drop from last year in demand and still concentrate in any meaningful way in that business unit.

They are already developing technology years before it is released, though, so the near future is mostly shaped by past financials.

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18852622
With their latest financial numbers, I don't think Canon is going to have the R&D to really put into their systems to make any real strides in the near future. The ISO performance and sensor tech is likely going to stall a bit IMO. A company cannot sustain 20% drop from last year in demand and still concentrate in any meaningful way in that business unit.

John Sheehy wrote in post #18852632
They are already developing technology years before it is released, though, so the near future is mostly shaped by past financials.

Just because R/D developed something does not mean it will necessarily be released. If the market is not there the cost to productize a development just might not be worth the investment. With the market pretty much collapsing beneath them and Canon having come to the mirrorless party so late. I can easily see where they would abandon all efforts except for the one market they think might grow. Move resources to mirrorless and lay off the others to save $$$.

To me it looks like Canon got caught off guard by the Mirrorless thing, thought they were only for small consumer grade people. The A7 line surprised them, and so they hurried to get a response on the table as fast as possible using existing bits and pieces. I don't think there is really anything wrong with either camera. They may not be rocking the mirrorless world. It's obvious that Nikon put a little more effort into their release. But that said, the world can change in 12 months, and I am sure the 5D/1Dx replacement will be rock solid.

And there is absolutely no reason you can't get decent/competitive images from either. Remember, a great image is more about being in the right place with the right skills to capture compelling content. Some of it is the equipment. But a good photographer with an R or RF will get better images than someone who thinks they can buy their way into goodness by buying expensive equipment.

I am not a great photographer... but i do a decent job getting the most out of my equipment.... I'ld be happy to shoot with either.

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18852611
- Larger AF point than the 80D

TeamSpeed, does the 80D have Spot AF? It appears to be even smaller than one-point AF according to the RP Manual.

gjl711 wrote in post #18852652
Just because R/D developed something does not mean it will necessarily be released. If the market is not there the cost to productize a development just might not be worth the investment. With the market pretty much collapsing beneath them and Canon having come to the mirrorless party so late. I can easily see where they would abandon all efforts except for the one market they think might grow. Move resources to mirrorless and lay off the others to save $$$.

If I am forced mirrorless as a 7D2 upgrade path, then I start looking for other mirrorless manufacturers if I can get a reasonable grip on the body, and a good translating AF with my EF lenses (I wouldn't trade my 400/4DO II IS for the world; it is sharp wide open with my Pentax Q at the pixel level; equivalent to about 400MP FF center crop). The fact is, for what I do mostly, 20MP Olympuses have much better high-ISO IQ and more resolution than an m43 crop from any Canon APS or FF sensor yet produced.

Good translating adapters can easily make the upgrade path jump tracks to another manufacturer, with DSLR lenses which lend themselves to mirrorless adapters.

If I were mostly shooting focal-length-limited on a tripod with manual focus, the EM-1 II would have replaced my 7D2 already for most of what I do, but I still have an eye towards a future hi-res EOS R-series camera for wide-angle, shallow DOF, and photography where I can fill the frame.

The question is whether the RP can do spot AF with servo active. I know Canon just did some firmware updates but don't know what.

We would have seen some of this tech by now from Canon. Sales have been dropping for years now, impacting R&D funding.

Spencerphoto wrote in post #18852558
Personally however, I care much less about bells and whistles, knobs, dials, menus - much more about the image..

Well in that regard cameras from Sony, Nikon, Fuji are the same as they all using Sony sensors. Canon is behind Sony. To me image quality is important but then getting that picture is more important so Fuji for me. Canon would be my 2nd choice. With Canon used gear getting so cheap lately, sometimes I think I should have a canon as my backup. Would be great for T/S, Macro stuff where I have nothing from Fuji and GF Macro is 3-4 times the cost.

Subfightersandman wrote in post #18846472
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Why is the RP getting so much flack?
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I think that those giving the RP flack are those who have been loyal Canon users for a long time. . They want to stick with Canon gear, and they want the most capable mirrorless camera on the market. . That is frustrating to them, because Canon doesn't yet make the mot capable mirrorless camera on the market. . Hence, these pro-level photographers are forced to either change brands, stay with their DSLRs and their inherent limitations, or use a camera that isn't designed for hard core professional use.

Some good loyal Canon customers want it all, and are willing to pay for it all, but Canon won't release a FF mirrorless camera that has it all. . That is frustrating, and that is why they are giving this RP flack.


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TeamSpeed wrote in post #18852622
With their latest financial numbers, I don't think Canon is going to have the R&D to really put into their systems to make any real strides in the near future. The ISO performance and sensor tech is likely going to stall a bit IMO. A company cannot sustain 20% drop from last year in demand and still concentrate in any meaningful way in that business unit.

Demand dropped more than Canon predicted from even at the beginning of the year, and they will reevaluate their plans for what to bring to the market. That won't be promising for those wanting better sensor tech, I suspect.

https://photorumors.co​m …ine-in-sales-and-profits/

They do blame smartphones, but I think too, part of the equation is that many of the offerings are just good enough and people have slowed their tech purchases accordingly. I know personally that the 5D4 is so good at so many things that I have stopped looking for other cameras other than something for more travel friendly gear like their mirrorless.

I posted this in another thread...but the most troubling thing when you peek at their performance isn't the drop in sales....its the massive 82% year over year drop in operating profit in Q1. This is a quarter that would have captured EOS R, EOS RP, and the first batch of RF lenses. The presentation documents point to a slight improvement in operating costs, and attribute the margin drop-off to a decrease in prices. There just isn't enough head-room in pricing because the competition is so fierce, and let's face it, as of right now, the competition simply has better products. Plus the mirrorless landscape is very different from DSLR, where you basically had a duopoly between Canon and Nikon.

I actually think that this will/should motivate Canon to accelerate their path to Pro caliber mirrorless bodies, because this is where the margin play is. But in the pro space, the products have to be competitive from a performance standpoint because people aren't going to pay top dollar for inferior products.

Tom Reichner wrote in post #18853198
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I think that those giving the RP flack are those who have been loyal Canon users for a long time. . They want to stick with Canon gear, and they want the most capable mirrorless camera on the market. . That is frustrating to them, because Canon doesn't yet make the mot capable mirrorless camera on the market. . Hence, these pro-level photographers are forced to either change brands, stay with their DSLRs and their inherent limitations, or use a camera that isn't designed for hard core professional use.

Some good loyal Canon customers want it all, and are willing to pay for it all, but Canon won't release a FF mirrorless camera that has it all. . That is frustrating, and that is why they are giving this RP flack.

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The RP was positioned as the low-cost leader to capture market-share and establish their foothold in the mirrorless space. I think that the RP is actually VERY appealing from a price and size standpoint. The problem is that strategically, banking on the RP doesn't fit into the current state of the camera market. Technological improvements have made FF cameras that cost about as much as rebels 10+ years ago a reality (I remember paying $1k for a T2i!) and Canon is applying the same strategy they did when they had success with rebels, but that market has moved on.