Approve the Cookies
This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and our Privacy Policy.
OK
Index  •   • New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Guest
New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Register to forums    Log in

 
FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre General Photography Talk 
Thread started 24 Apr 2019 (Wednesday) 11:47
Search threadPrev/next
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

Accelerated market contraction for DSLRs

 
Left ­ Handed ­ Brisket
THREAD ­ STARTER
Combating camera shame since 1977...
Avatar
9,897 posts
Gallery: 15 photos
Likes: 2362
Joined Jun 2011
Location: The Uwharrie Mts, NC
     
May 03, 2019 06:51 as a reply to  @ post 18855378 |  #16

I agree with your point of mfgs missing the boat on social media. Additionally, they missed the boat on better in camera image processing options. There is no reason one shouldn't be able to easily change processing options for raw>jpg ... including the ability to reprocess as many times as you want. I think panorama stitching should also be possible.

However, transfer to my phone from my 6D is super simple and fast. I never imagined I would find myself using it much, but I do. That said, they led the way early on and then did nothing with it. At one point they launched some kind of cloud based thing for a few cameras, wtf??? Totally missed the point.


PSA: The above post may contain sarcasm, reply at your own risk | Not in gear database: Auto Sears 50mm 2.0 / 3x CL-360, Nikon SB-28, SunPak auto 322 D, Minolta 20

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)
mystik610
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
9,115 posts
Gallery: 36 photos
Best ofs: 1
Likes: 9554
Joined Jan 2012
Location: Houston, TX
Post edited 6 months ago by mystik610. (2 edits in all)
     
May 03, 2019 07:08 |  #17

Left Handed Brisket wrote in post #18855390 (external link)
I agree with your point of mfgs missing the boat on social media. Additionally, they missed the boat on better in camera image processing options. There is no reason one shouldn't be able to easily change processing options for raw>jpg ... including the ability to reprocess as many times as you want. I think panorama stitching should also be possible.

However, transfer to my phone from my 6D is super simple and fast. I never imagined I would find myself using it much, but I do. That said, they led the way early on and then did nothing with it. At one point they launched some kind of cloud based thing for a few cameras, wtf??? Totally missed the point.

I think the camera manufacturers should have done more around the mobile app. They way I envision things is a persistent bluetooth connection between phone and camera...app is basically a simplified lightroom where you have low res previews of images on the camera, can quickly select which images you want to download, process (with good sets of presets), and post directly to social media from within the app.

But yeah they're out of touch and like you said missed the point.


focalpointsphoto.com (external link) - flickr (external link) - Instagram (external link)
α7ʀIV - α7ʀIII
Sigma 14-24 f2.8 ART - Zeiss Loxia 21 - Sigma 35 f1.2 ART - Sony 35 1.8 - Sony/Zeiss 55 1.8 - Sony 85GM

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Croasdail
making stuff up
7,509 posts
Gallery: 11 photos
Likes: 513
Joined Apr 2005
Location: North Carolina
     
May 03, 2019 08:14 |  #18

I sorta disagree on the social media thing. Even if camera manufactures had included connectivity into their cameras, the form factor of a traditional cameras would have meant people were still less likely to carry them with them. Cellphones ushered in a new wave of mobility and accessablilty to cameras. Before their was the social media thing people still too millions of photos with their phones. Social Media greatly accelerated the use... but I don't think this was people opting for cell phones over normal cameras. These are people who likely would not have used a camera as much as they do now because the camera was with them all the time regardless.

Adding social capabilities I doubt would have increased the use of traditional P/S cameras, and would have little impact on DSLR cameras. Using my wife as an example, she has her phone with her 24x7. She frequently uses the camera to record a wide range of stuff or use it for visual notes. There is no way I would ever have gotten my wife to carry a traditional camera even 25% of the time in the form factors they are today. The social side is a bonus - but not why she uses her phones camera as much.

Lots of people were over buying technology. Cell phones killed that demand. And they still do many things that cameras today don't do - such as geo-tagging and deep metadata. My phone adds peoples names, locations, events automatically and bins the photos into collections without me doing anything... something my $4,000 cameras don't do.... my Sonys actually pull that information from my phone.

I think the contraction will continue as the gap between casual photographers and enthusiast/professiona​ls widens. And so will the camera offerings.


Mark
Its by knowing and mastering all the rules that you learn which ones you can break.

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Jeff_56
Senior Member
285 posts
Gallery: 11 photos
Likes: 67
Joined Jan 2013
Location: SE Ohio
     
May 03, 2019 08:20 |  #19
bannedPermanent ban

It may have been a popular option but I don't think posting to social media directly is all that important. Social media will never support high quality images. Without the fast ability to crop and resize on my camera I don't think posting to a social media account is going to be easy. It's not hard to transfer photos using the near field connection if I do want to upload but I shoot mostly RAW images so we're talking converting first and cropping and maybe some processing. If I want something to shoot and quickly post I'll just use my phone. I rarely do that personally but I know some do. My photos are more about documenting historic sites in my area these days. It would be a disservice to do that with a phone camera. I end up posting photos to social media because I have a fair size group of people who follow what I do in a Facebook group about local history. If I was using just another cell camera I don't think I would document things the way I want. And a lot of my followers would think the same thing. I don't have that many followers. About 2000 i guess. But they expect better quality than they can do themselves.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Jeff_56
Senior Member
285 posts
Gallery: 11 photos
Likes: 67
Joined Jan 2013
Location: SE Ohio
     
May 03, 2019 08:38 |  #20
bannedPermanent ban

Croasdail wrote in post #18855424 (external link)
I sorta disagree on the social media thing. Even if camera manufactures had included connectivity into their cameras, the form factor of a traditional cameras would have meant people were still less likely to carry them with them.

You were posting a lot of the same things I was thinking while I was writing my post.

I've been taking my DSLR's with me for years. I guess I'm that guy. At no time has the cell phone really been about actual good photography. Some cell cameras work pretty well but people are still sending photos of something they happened to see to their friends. I don't think people care that much about having good quality photos to keep. Some do of course but not that many.

I think hobbyist cameras will be around for hobbyists for a long time. It will be the same people who bought SLR film cameras before digital IMO.

I have an 80D. It's not the latest and greatest but it works better than any cell camera I've seen. As long as that is true there will be people like me who buy them.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
RDKirk
Adorama says I'm "packed."
Avatar
13,134 posts
Gallery: 2 photos
Likes: 638
Joined May 2004
Location: USA
     
May 03, 2019 09:40 |  #21

Jeff_56 wrote in post #18853650 (external link)
We can't stop progress even if it is a big step backwards. We all known cell cameras don't take photos equal to a good DSLR. But if people only buy cell phones with cameras then DSLR cameras will go the way of large format and medium format cameras. I suspect there will always be pro gear to buy. But if consumers aren't buying anything better than cell cameras we can't expect entry level DSLRs to not be affected in a big way. It won't be the first time convenience replaced better quality. Many would say digital cameras did the same thing even though they eventually became the equal of film cameras. We may see the time when cell cameras shoot really good photos. At any rate what is to be will be.

I think the big question is why SLRs/DSLRs ever became such a big proportion of the market in the first place.

They certainly weren't in the 60s or 70s; nobody except serious enthusiasts, professionals, and military stationed in Japan were buying SLRs in the 60s and 70s. It seems the booming encroachment of SLRs into the casual amateur market began with the Canon AE-1.

So that bubble is finally shrinking to its real normalcy.


TANSTAAFL--The Only Unbreakable Rule in Photography

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Left ­ Handed ­ Brisket
THREAD ­ STARTER
Combating camera shame since 1977...
Avatar
9,897 posts
Gallery: 15 photos
Likes: 2362
Joined Jun 2011
Location: The Uwharrie Mts, NC
     
May 03, 2019 10:15 |  #22

RDKirk wrote in post #18855468 (external link)
I think the big question is why SLRs/DSLRs ever became such a big proportion of the market in the first place.

Absolutely.

The notion that it is the gear that makes the difference in image quality went a long way to blowing up the bubble. It became a trend to show up to a kids sporting event with a APSC and long lens. Then every mom on the field thought she could take portraits for wine money. All the while most people buying these services never stopped to compare quality of a "real" photog and someone with a camera.

I've said it before, but it is just like desktop publishing and web design in the 1990s. Eventually the cream will rise to the top. I think the contraction will actually benefit pros.

Social media integration certainly wouldn't have been a lifeline, but it would have slowed the bleeding. Everything about the boom and bust in DSLRs revolves around fads. The mfgs did not recognize the importance of the cool factor. They might have been able to create their own cool factor with a little effort. I know that in the past whenever I browsed images from my 6D on my phone at an event, people were very curious and impressed. There was at one point where a revolutionary SMALL camera could have changed perceptions, but no one made it.


PSA: The above post may contain sarcasm, reply at your own risk | Not in gear database: Auto Sears 50mm 2.0 / 3x CL-360, Nikon SB-28, SunPak auto 322 D, Minolta 20

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
mike_d
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
5,351 posts
Gallery: 7 photos
Likes: 592
Joined Aug 2009
     
May 03, 2019 11:08 |  #23

Left Handed Brisket wrote in post #18855481 (external link)
Absolutely.

The notion that it is the gear that makes the difference in image quality went a long way to blowing up the bubble. It became a trend to show up to a kids sporting event with a APSC and long lens. Then every mom on the field thought she could take portraits for wine money. All the while most people buying these services never stopped to compare quality of a "real" photog and someone with a camera.

I've said it before, but it is just like desktop publishing and web design in the 1990s. Eventually the cream will rise to the top. I think the contraction will actually benefit pros.

Social media integration certainly wouldn't have been a lifeline, but it would have slowed the bleeding. Everything about the boom and bust in DSLRs revolves around fads. The mfgs did not recognize the importance of the cool factor. They might have been able to create their own cool factor with a little effort. I know that in the past whenever I browsed images from my 6D on my phone at an event, people were very curious and impressed. There was at one point where a revolutionary SMALL camera could have changed perceptions, but no one made it.

I'm currently the guy on the soccer field shooting with a 5D3 and 100-400. I've had the gear longer than the kid. One other dad has an old APS-C Nikon with a ~55-250. My shots hold up to major cropping as is sometimes required. Everyone else just has a cell phone which doesn't even come out during the action because its useless. People seem to appreciate having shots of their kids that they couldn't get. I know what you mean about looking at your 6D shots on your phone. I'll show someone a picture from my DSLR and people will sometimes say, "OMG that's great. What kind of phone is that?" It's telling that they assume it was taken with a phone unless they know I have some gear. Cameras are now just an icon on their phone to most people, not a physical device.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
duckster
Senior Member
755 posts
Gallery: 156 photos
Likes: 648
Joined May 2017
     
May 03, 2019 11:11 |  #24

mike_d wrote in post #18855513 (external link)
I'm currently the guy on the soccer field shooting with a 5D3 and 100-400. I've had the gear longer than the kid. One other dad has an old APS-C Nikon with a ~55-250. My shots hold up to major cropping as is sometimes required. Everyone else just has a cell phone which doesn't even come out during the action because its useless. People seem to appreciate having shots of their kids that they couldn't get. I know what you mean about looking at your 6D shots on your phone. I'll show someone a picture from my DSLR and people will sometimes say, "OMG that's great. What kind of phone is that?" It's telling that they assume it was taken with a phone unless they know I have some gear. Cameras are now just an icon on their phone to most people, not a physical device.


I take photos of my daughter in sports. I am happy to share photos with other parents if they ask, not a business for me. Many parents wonder why they can't get the same photos with their phone or P&S/bridge camera.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
mike_d
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
5,351 posts
Gallery: 7 photos
Likes: 592
Joined Aug 2009
     
May 03, 2019 11:17 |  #25

duckster wrote in post #18855516 (external link)
I take photos of my daughter in sports. I am happy to share photos with other parents if they ask, not a business for me. Many parents wonder why they can't get the same photos with their phone or P&S/bridge camera.

I share my game pictures with the other parents in a smugmug gallery. They can download 4x6 300ppi copies if they want. I've re-cropped and printed a few by request but I'm not offering to sell because I'd probably get kicked out if I tried and I've heard the market is dead anyway.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
TeamSpeed
01010100 01010011
Avatar
37,131 posts
Gallery: 111 photos
Best ofs: 2
Likes: 5902
Joined May 2002
Location: Midwest
     
May 03, 2019 11:55 as a reply to  @ Left Handed Brisket's post |  #26

The latest DSLRs from Canon allow you to post directly to a number of cloud hosts, like Google drive, Facebook, etc by using your tethered phone as the internet conduit. Works great.


Past Equipment | My Personal Gallery (external link) My Business Gallery (external link)
For Sale: 2x Teleconverter
For Sale: Sigma USB Dock

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Wilt
Reader's Digest Condensed version of War and Peace [POTN Vol 1]
Avatar
41,858 posts
Gallery: 1 photo
Likes: 2596
Joined Aug 2005
Location: Belmont, CA
Post edited 6 months ago by Wilt. (5 edits in all)
     
May 03, 2019 18:09 |  #27

Croasdail wrote in post #18855424 (external link)
I sorta disagree on the social media thing. Even if camera manufactures had included connectivity into their cameras, the form factor of a traditional cameras would have meant people were still less likely to carry them with them. Cellphones ushered in a new wave of mobility and accessablilty to cameras. Before their was the social media thing people still too millions of photos with their phones. Social Media greatly accelerated the use... but I don't think this was people opting for cell phones over normal cameras. These are people who likely would not have used a camera as much as they do now because the camera was with them all the time regardless.
Adding social capabilities I doubt would have increased the use of traditional P/S cameras, and would have little impact on DSLR cameras. Using my wife as an example, she has her phone with her 24x7. She frequently uses the camera to record a wide range of stuff or use it for visual notes. There is no way I would ever have gotten my wife to carry a traditional camera even 25% of the time in the form factors they are today. The social side is a bonus - but not why she uses her phones camera as much.

Agree! Folks gave up carrying CD players for the compactness of the MP3 player in spite of inferiority in sound reproduction, and then they gave up the MP3 player (as small as that was) for the smartphone's ability to hold MP3 and to get stuff off internet feeds.

Croasdail wrote in post #18855424 (external link)
I
Lots of people were over buying technology. Cell phones killed that demand. And they still do many things that cameras today don't do - such as geo-tagging and deep metadata. My phone adds peoples names, locations, events automatically and bins the photos into collections without me doing anything... something my $4,000 cameras don't do.... my Sonys actually pull that information from my phone.

I think the contraction will continue as the gap between casual photographers and enthusiast/professiona​ls widens. And so will the camera offerings.

Jeff_56 wrote:
I think hobbyist cameras will be around for hobbyists for a long time. It will be the same people who bought SLR film cameras before digital IMO.

I agree with you both. And Jeff, I think the contraction will continue until the market segment of 'those for whom an SLR appeals' is fully sated by the available technology. Until that point, there is the 'repeat buyer' who is buying to satisfy his/her desire for 'newer technology in the latest models' is satisfied. In the case of film SLRs, that amounted to a certain percentage of the population, and 'the same' subsegment will be the balance point (in a population which is inherently larger now than 30 years ago).

The popularity of social media posting is of greatestappeal to those who have the need to shoot a Selfie and then send it to others to share their life. How many serious photographers WANT to be in front of the lens?! I take photos of grandkids that the parents' smartphones can never take, and then I share the photos on a CD/DVD that I send them! They can post to social media, when/if they are so inclined...not me!


You need to give me OK to edit your image and repost! Keep POTN alive and well with member support https://photography-on-the.net/forum/donate.p​hp
Canon dSLR system, Olympus OM 35mm system, Bronica ETRSi 645 system, Horseman LS 4x5 system, Metz flashes, Dynalite studio lighting, and too many accessories to mention

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Tom ­ Reichner
"I am a little creepy"
Avatar
13,922 posts
Gallery: 148 photos
Best ofs: 1
Likes: 4056
Joined Dec 2008
Location: Omak, in north-central Washington state, USA
     
May 03, 2019 19:06 |  #28

.

Wilt wrote in post #18855656 (external link)
I take photos of grandkids that the parents' smartphones can never take, and then I share the photos on a CD/DVD that I send them! They can post to social media, when/if they are so inclined...not me!

.
Wow, Wilt - that is old school!

I am simply curious - why the CD/DVD instead of just emailing the photos to them?

I had someone put photos on a CD for me a few months ago, and have no idea how to get them on my computer. . My new computer doesn't have a built-in CD/DVD drive, and I am too lazy to bother ordering one and plugging it in. . When I called Apple and asked why they no longer put CD/DVD drives in their latest, greatest computers, they told me that it is because nobody uses CDs or DVDs anymore.


.


"Your" and "you're" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"They're", "their", and "there" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"Fare" and "fair" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one. The proper expression is "moot point", NOT "mute point".

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Jeff_56
Senior Member
285 posts
Gallery: 11 photos
Likes: 67
Joined Jan 2013
Location: SE Ohio
     
May 03, 2019 20:49 |  #29
bannedPermanent ban

Wilt wrote in post #18855656 (external link)
I take photos of grandkids that the parents' smartphones can never take, and then I share the photos on a CD/DVD that I send them! They can post to social media, when/if they are so inclined...not me!

I'm sorta in the same boat. I'm taking photos others want but they don't want to invest in the equipment to get those photos. I do post to social media but not in the "look at me" sort of way. I post photos of local significance and I have quite a few people who want to see those photos and copy them. I don't do it by CDR the way I did a while back. I post them on my web site and link to those photos from my social media accounts. I can share much better quality photos that way.

I think the camera market will always be around for people like me. I made some money doing video a while back but again optical media is all but gone and it isn't easy to distribute good quality video now. So I don't do it. But stills are another story. I can host my own stuff a lot easier with stills. I don't see that demand drying up for a while. And others will be able to do the same which will require a better than consumer grade camera. Without the better camera I'm not offering anything people can't do themselves.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
DesolateMirror
Senior Member
Avatar
395 posts
Gallery: 134 photos
Likes: 365
Joined Oct 2015
Post edited 6 months ago by DesolateMirror.
     
May 03, 2019 23:07 |  #30

I wonder how their market projections are related to this: https://petapixel.com …e-with-3rd-party-flashes/ (external link)

New tech? Testing the waters? Trying to hold onto market share for accessories like flashes? Will there be some backlash if they keep doing it?

According to the comments on that page and a related reddit thread the hate train has already left the station.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

5,377 views & 100 likes for this thread
Accelerated market contraction for DSLRs
FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre General Photography Talk 
AAA
x 1600
y 1600

Jump to forum...   •  Rules   •  Index   •  New posts   •  RTAT   •  'Best of'   •  Gallery   •  Gear   •  Reviews   •  Member list   •  Polls   •  Image rules   •  Search   •  Password reset

Not a member yet?
Register to forums
Registered members may log in to forums and access all the features: full search, image upload, follow forums, own gear list and ratings, likes, more forums, private messaging, thread follow, notifications, own gallery, all settings, view hosted photos, own reviews, see more and do more... and all is free. Don't be a stranger - register now and start posting!


COOKIES DISCLAIMER: This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and to our privacy policy.
Privacy policy and cookie usage info.


POWERED BY AMASS forum software 2.1forum software
version 2.1 /
code and design
by Pekka Saarinen ©
for photography-on-the.net

Latest registered member is gardenchefs
1123 guests, 341 members online
Simultaneous users record so far is 15144, that happened on Nov 22, 2018

Photography-on-the.net Digital Photography Forums is the website for photographers and all who love great photos, camera and post processing techniques, gear talk, discussion and sharing. Professionals, hobbyists, newbies and those who don't even own a camera -- all are welcome regardless of skill, favourite brand, gear, gender or age. Registering and usage is free.