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FORUMS General Gear Talk Flash and Studio Lighting 
Thread started 08 May 2019 (Wednesday) 18:01
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Off Camera Flash Help...

 
firme
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Post edited 5 months ago by firme.
     
May 08, 2019 18:01 |  #1

Canon 80D
Canon 85mm f1.8
Tamron 17-50 f2.8
Canon nifty fifty
Canon 580EX
Pocket Wizards
36" soft box with grid
Generic light stand (2)

This weekend I have a maternity shoot with wife's co-worker.... she will be delivering in beginning of June. This is a TFP session as I haven't done much these past couple of months, which she knows she will be my practice shoot but still want her to have good photographs.

Now I have been hurting myself as I haven't done much practicing. Lately I have seen many videos on hss (outdoors) which I don't have capabilities yet and not buying lighting for it anytime soon. Last week on a facebook photography group, someone mentioned getting hss from an ND filter. Is this possible? If so, what would help as I plan on using the 85mm lens? A friend might be able to let me borrow a Canon 70-200mm F4. Now I am not expecting to get expectacular photos but looking to get great photos to be able to showcase eventually for my portfolio.

If I understand correct... for hss one has to expose background first, then when satisfied then light is added. With hss, I have see shutter speed above what my camera allows which is 250. Perhaps just from seeing all those videos, I "bought into" the hole hss function and I am just not ready that. Also, for indoor shoots, hss is not needed? Indoor is set up differently?

Thanks in advanced.




  
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Left ­ Handed ­ Brisket
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May 08, 2019 23:17 |  #2

what do you hope to accomplish with the HSS speedlight?


PSA: The above post may contain sarcasm, reply at your own risk | Not in gear database: Auto Sears 50mm 2.0 / 3x CL-360, Nikon SB-28, SunPak auto 322 D, Minolta 20

  
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soeren
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Post edited 5 months ago by soeren.
     
May 08, 2019 23:43 |  #3

A couple ND's take care of the need for HSS and is much more effective. Using flash is always a matter of 2 exposures, the ambient and your flash. Balancing those 2 is also always up to you. Sometimes you want to get rid of ambient exposure and there fore choose a fast as possible shutterspeed and small aperture. Sometimes you want it to show and......
Only if you have to shoot above your flash sync speed HSS is neccesary and as said ND's take care of that.


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Wilt
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Post edited 5 months ago by Wilt.
     
May 08, 2019 23:49 |  #4

Let's assume Sunny 16 ambient conditions, and a GN135 flash unit (e.g. Canon 580EX/600EX) with a normal lens, at ISO 100.

  • Assuming -1EV fill flash with ordinary (not HSS mode) flash means fill to 12' with f/16 shooting aperture.
  • With HSS flash, you typically lose -2EV light or one half the range; so you have -1EV flash fill to 6' (We are assuming you exceed X-sync speed by only 1/3EV) or 1/250 for FF dSLR like 5Dn (or 1/200 puts 6D in HSS mode) Each -2EV faster shutter speed cuts flash range by half again.
  • Using -2EV ND (sometimes referred to as ND 0.6), keep in mind that it affects both available light and flash!
    So while it permits f/8 in lieu of f/16 with the same shutter speed for ambient, with indicated f/8 on lens but having f/16 light transmission. So the ND filter permits f/8 with 1/250 where HSS is invoked on a 5Dn; but the light transmission affects flash as well and HSS flash range is unchanged at f/8 plus -2EV ND.

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Angmo
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Post edited 5 months ago by Angmo. (3 edits in all)
     
May 09, 2019 07:55 |  #5

This is with a strobe. No ND. f3.1, 1/2000
Strobe was at least 30 feet away running at close to 900ws camera right.


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firme
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Post edited 5 months ago by firme. (2 edits in all)
     
May 10, 2019 07:15 |  #6

Thanks for the replies. I found this video: https://www.youtube.co​m/watch?v=50-1kK9bot4 (external link)

He demonstrates how to balance both ambient and flash using hss and without using hss. Is this how I would need to try? Guess if I don't practice I won't know how to. So, is there any really need for HSS then?

My pictures don't turn out like Angmo and those that replied. So I am trying to get my pictures to get somewhere near that result.




  
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Left ­ Handed ­ Brisket
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May 10, 2019 08:21 |  #7

Angmo is using a 900w/s strobe and a high efficiency reflector. The guy in the video is using a 600w/s strobe.

Your speedlight might be said to be in the 70-80 w/s range.

Your usage is going to based on those limitations, but we still don't know what you expect to achieve, where and when you will be shooting, etc. That said, you are hopefully seeing that you aren't going to be shooting like the above examples.


PSA: The above post may contain sarcasm, reply at your own risk | Not in gear database: Auto Sears 50mm 2.0 / 3x CL-360, Nikon SB-28, SunPak auto 322 D, Minolta 20

  
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Angmo
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Post edited 5 months ago by Angmo. (3 edits in all)
     
May 10, 2019 08:29 |  #8

Left Handed Brisket wrote in post #18859283 (external link)
Angmo is using a 900w/s strobe and a high efficiency reflector. The guy in the video is using a 600w/s strobe.

Your speedlight might be said to be in the 70-80 w/s range.

Your usage is going to based on those limitations, but we still don't know what you expect to achieve, where and when you will be shooting, etc. That said, you are hopefully seeing that you aren't going to be shooting like the above examples.

Very true. The reflector is that lovely 16”
Elinchrom Fireball.

The strobe is an Elinchrom RX AS Speed battery pack. 1,100 Ws with S head.

Here’s another removing the shade of the hat at noon. Bright sunlight. Standard reflector maybe 10 - 15 feet away. I forget around 1/3000 @f2.8

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Intheswamp
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May 10, 2019 10:01 |  #9

While you're shooting, be sure and get some available light shots. To me, soft available light is hard to beat. Large open shade outdoors. Indoors, the model close to a window on a north-facing or shaded side of building...the larger the window the better. White walls/reflectors for fill. Available light also has a built-in modeling light. :lol:

*To me*, it seems most rookies end up with more dark, dramatic-looking images when using HSS...or maybe green-screen type results. I can see that getting HSS "right" takes some investment of time and learning. "Right" to me means "realistic". But, people have different opinions and likes so to each his/her own. ;-)a

Remember that this is a once in a lifetime shoot for your friend and not a great time to be experimenting too much. Be sure and shoot with methods that you know along with whatever new methods you may want to include. As you said, "this is a TFP session" but you "still want her to have good photographs". :)

Maybe you could even workout a followup shoot where you can focus on using some "new flash techniques".

Just some thoughts from a rank-rookie.

Have fun shooting...however you shoot!!!

Ed


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firme
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May 10, 2019 11:46 |  #10

Thanks guys. Yes, I do know I am limited to what I have and quite frankly, don't have much to use.

Realistically not expecting same result as above. Just trying to avoid dark background, and have subject well lit. I still need training. I do know people have their own definition of what looks good, too hot, etc. Sometimes for me a bit confusing as something that seems what I consider too hot, seems to be ok. Perhaps intended use. There are some things that throw me off.

Agree, probably not the best time to "test". We are planning maybe on baby shoot if she does like the pictures.

Planning on doing indoor and outdoor at a small beach near me, weather permitting this Saturday.




  
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Angmo
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May 10, 2019 13:12 |  #11

firme wrote in post #18859351 (external link)
Thanks guys. Yes, I do know I am limited to what I have and quite frankly, don't have much to use.

Realistically not expecting same result as above. Just trying to avoid dark background, and have subject well lit. I still need training. I do know people have their own definition of what looks good, too hot, etc. Sometimes for me a bit confusing as something that seems what I consider too hot, seems to be ok. Perhaps intended use. There are some things that throw me off.

Agree, probably not the best time to "test". We are planning maybe on baby shoot if she does like the pictures.

Planning on doing indoor and outdoor at a small beach near me, weather permitting this Saturday.

Practice first. Never experiment at a shoot. Design it all first. Go with what you know.


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Intheswamp
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May 10, 2019 13:19 |  #12

You've got enough equipment to get some good shots. Don't sweat the equipment issue. A little DIY stuff might help such as some reflectors.

Ideas.... :)

Golden hour. Would the sunset be on the water? Get an exposure a stop or so below "correct" exposure for the sunset and use fill-in with your flash/softbox. BUT, you would probably need to gel your flash to balance the flash to the ambient color... https://neilvn.com …for-warm-light-at-sunset/ (external link)

So...

A large piece of styrofoam insulation for a reflector...amazing the light that they can throw. If you're fortunate you find some in white, if it's pink or blue then hopefully it has foil on one side that you can use. ;) A 4x8 foot piece of it cut into two 4x4 foot pieces can be stood up like an upside down "V"...or, if you have a helper they could hold the entire 4x8 surface towards the subject.

Gallon/2-gallon ziplocks to put sand in for weighing down lightstand or anchoring styrofoam reflector (or plastic grocery bags...cheap, but dispose/recycle properly).

Early morning and late afternoon/evening...we don't squint as much which clues us in that it's better light. Overcast conditions makes for some good shots, too, but doesn't do much for sky backgrounds.

Bring a bottle of kids bubbles for her to blow...breaks up the tension, adds a little interest, fills some shooting time, etc.,. Other props, too, a few long stem flowers, a long-maned stallion (ok, maybe a bit too much:-P ). Maybe a folding chair, etc.,. You get the idea. Ask her to bring some props that goes with her attire.

Regardless of props, dress, lenses, or whatnot...if you get the exposure right you'll get some good shots. The beach itself should even help with some fill light reflecting off of it.

But, as Angmo said...do what you know how to do and get the shots. If there's some extra time maybe try a few extra things...

Best wishes!!!
Ed


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Angmo
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Post edited 5 months ago by Angmo.
     
May 10, 2019 13:25 |  #13

Do some practice. Post a few test pics here. Get some advice.

Either way post the results here too for comments. The guys here can really help.

Some of the best children shots I’ve taken were a kid in the shade sitting in grass with a 4x4x1” styrofoam shipping thing used as a reflector. No strobes or speed lights. Mom wasn’t impressed until she saw the results.

She was so excited she showed all her friends. Then I got busy helping them too.


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Angmo
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May 10, 2019 14:31 |  #14

Rule Number One in photography.

The best camera is the one you have

The best lens is the one you have

The best gear is the stuff you have

Nothing else matters. Have fun, enjoy and never stop learning.

—> The only exception to that rule:

The best camera to use underwater in a housing is someone else’s.


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Intheswamp
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May 10, 2019 15:30 |  #15

Angmo wrote in post #18859421 (external link)
Rule Number One in photography.

The best camera is the one you have

The best lens is the one you have

The best gear is the stuff you have

Nothing else matters. Have fun, enjoy and never stop learning.

—> The only exception to that rule:

The best camera to use underwater in a housing is someone else’s.


:lol::lol::lol:


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