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FORUMS General Gear Talk Flash and Studio Lighting 
Thread started 08 May 2019 (Wednesday) 18:01
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Off Camera Flash Help...

 
firme
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May 10, 2019 17:50 |  #16

Thanks a lot for the help. I know "better" equipment won't make me a "better photographer". I know I have to get very familiar with the equipment I have. As many will agree, practice, practice, and practice some more. Hopefully tomorrow will be helpful as frustrating when wife doesn't let me take pictures of her anymore, lol unless she gets pregnant as we never got a chance to do maternity with our two kids. The kids don't like me to use them and do get impatient. Tried family and no one took the offer although no fee was involved... guess will have to post online to do some TFP.

I do have sand bags but filled with rocks/pebbles... don't remember. Pretty heavy, should hold the stand firmly. Unfortunately the outdoor will be done sometime after 2pm as she is coming at 12 for indoor and guessing 2 hours for wardrobe change, breaks, shoot, more breaks as she is pretty much ready to pop. LOL. I do have a board of white coroplast board, that should do the trick.

Did tell her to bring props and she has a daughter. I sent quite a few sample pictures of what can be done with props, daughter and herself.




  
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Intheswamp
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May 10, 2019 18:52 |  #17

It sounds like you've got a plan. Be intentional about what you do. Yeah, the later the better for the outdoor shots.

But most of all have fun! If it's not fun then...it's work. :-)

Ed


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firme
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Post edited 5 months ago by firme. (2 edits in all)
     
May 10, 2019 19:54 |  #18

Ok, so I took some test shots and I did this around 7. These were not done with the sun at the model, as it was behind the building.

Canon 85mm
Speedlite 580ex
Soft box

The ss was kept at 250 throughout the test. The following sets I have is 1-8: no flash, just trying to expose for ambient starting at f1.8-f4. Photos 1a-8a: are with flash at 1/32 power starting at f1.8-f4. Photos 1b-8b: are with flash at 1/64 power starting at f1.8-f4. Image 10 was at flash 1/128 @f4.5 and same distance as main groups (5' away), image 11 was with flash at 1/128 @f4.5 and about 6' away. The height was at 66".

Perhaps too close and could not tell much difference between 1/32 and 1/64 power on speedlite. Perhaps just my untrained eyes. Could tell the difference in image 10 and 11 though. Those were taken @f4.5 Hopefully not too many links.

As this was done from shadow from building, with sun on bear, settings would have been much different?

http://www.mentegraphi​cs.com/fotos/1.JPG (external link)
http://www.mentegraphi​cs.com/fotos/1a.JPG (external link)
http://www.mentegraphi​cs.com/fotos/1b.JPG (external link)

http://www.mentegraphi​cs.com/fotos/2.JPG (external link)
http://www.mentegraphi​cs.com/fotos/2a.JPG (external link)
http://www.mentegraphi​cs.com/fotos/2b.JPG (external link)

http://www.mentegraphi​cs.com/fotos/3.JPG (external link)
http://www.mentegraphi​cs.com/fotos/3a.JPG (external link)
http://www.mentegraphi​cs.com/fotos/3b.JPG (external link)

http://www.mentegraphi​cs.com/fotos/4.JPG (external link)
http://www.mentegraphi​cs.com/fotos/4a.JPG (external link)
http://www.mentegraphi​cs.com/fotos/4b.JPG (external link)

http://www.mentegraphi​cs.com/fotos/5.JPG (external link)
http://www.mentegraphi​cs.com/fotos/5a.JPG (external link)
http://www.mentegraphi​cs.com/fotos/5b.JPG (external link)

http://www.mentegraphi​cs.com/fotos/6.JPG (external link)
http://www.mentegraphi​cs.com/fotos/6a.JPG (external link)
http://www.mentegraphi​cs.com/fotos/6b.JPG (external link)

http://www.mentegraphi​cs.com/fotos/7.JPG (external link)
http://www.mentegraphi​cs.com/fotos/7a.JPG (external link)
http://www.mentegraphi​cs.com/fotos/7b.JPG (external link)

http://www.mentegraphi​cs.com/fotos/8.JPG (external link)
http://www.mentegraphi​cs.com/fotos/8a.JPG (external link)
http://www.mentegraphi​cs.com/fotos/8b.JPG (external link)

http://www.mentegraphi​cs.com/fotos/10.JPG (external link)
http://www.mentegraphi​cs.com/fotos/11.JPG (external link)

http://www.mentegraphi​cs.com/fotos/12.JPG (external link)
http://www.mentegraphi​cs.com/fotos/13.JPG (external link)

Should have probably gone past f4.




  
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Wilt
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Post edited 5 months ago by Wilt. (3 edits in all)
     
May 12, 2019 10:54 as a reply to  @ firme's post |  #19

I didn't view all the shots, but a sampling.

  • Shots 1 & 2 (both a and b) show clear signs of overexposure caused by the flash.
  • Shot 7 has better exposure, but both a and b seem to have flash as the Main source, rather than the Fill...This is fine when your purpose is to DARKEN ambient such as to not have viewer's attention drawn away from the subject. But you don't always need to do this...in fact, you might say this is a minority of use. However, since you were shooting in the shade of a building, using flash to serve as the Main and provide highlights was a perfect thing to do...when using in moderation (not as seen in shots 1 and 2)
  • I see nothing which is an example of using ambient as the Main source, and using flash to Fill in dark shadows for contrast reduction of the lighting (like one side of the face is bright when the sun is coming from the side and you have subject facing 90 degrees from the sun so that they do not have to squint painfully into the sun). This is a key purpose of flash!


You SHOULD be able to rssily differentiate 1EV greater intensity of flash...for example, if ambient light is resulting in f/8 with chosen shutter speed, and
  • when flash is GN 66 (1/4 power on Canon 580EX) at 12' from subject fill flash will brighten shadows to -1EV (compared to sunlit side) or what is known as 2:1 subject lighting contrast ('low' contrast)
  • when flash is GN 47 (1/8 power on Canon 580EX) at 12' from subject fill flash will brighten shadows to -1.5EV (compared to sunlit side) or what is known as 3:1 subject lighting contrast ('medium' contrast)

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gonzogolf
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Post edited 5 months ago by gonzogolf.
     
May 12, 2019 14:29 |  #20

[QUOTE=firme;18859559]​Ok, so I took some test shots and I did this around 7. These were not done with the sun at the model, as it was behind the building.

Canon 85mm
Speedlite 580ex
Soft box

The ss was kept at 250 throughout the test. The following sets I have is 1-8: no flash, just trying to expose for ambient starting at f1.8-f4. Photos 1a-8a: are with flash at 1/32 power starting at f1.8-f4. Photos 1b-8b: are with flash at 1/64 power starting at f1.8-f4. Image 10 was at flash 1/128 @f4.5 and same distance as main groups (5' away), image 11 was with flash at 1/128 @f4.5 and about 6' away. The height was at 66".

Perhaps too close and could not tell much difference between 1/32 and 1/64 power on speedlite. Perhaps just my untrained eyes. Could tell the difference in image 10 and 11 though. Those were taken @f4.5 Hopefully not too many links.]


For your next test vary your shutter speed to understand the relationship between subject and background. For flash photos there are always 2 exposures to consider. The ambient which affects the background and anything not lit by the flash, and the flash exposure. Since the flash exposure occurs in a sudden brief burst the subject lit by the flash will appear the same at 1/250 as it would at 1/60, but the background would be lighter as the ambient exposure is brighter. Obviously if the ambient is too bright it will affect both exposures.




  
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firme
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May 13, 2019 18:55 |  #21

Wilt, thanks for the comments. I did use the flash as main light. To be honest I was trying to make the ambient/background darker. You did mentioned, this method is not always necessary to do this. What instance would it not be ok to use this method?

If I understand correctly, using ambient light as main source is having sun facing one side of subject while using the flash on opposite side, then having sun behind subject is that considered rim light from sun(ambient) and using flash as fill light?

Did look up on youtube regarding contrast ratios. Interesting...

------

Gonzogolf, I would need to test @1.8 with ss at 125-160-200-250, then @2.0 with ss at 125-160-200-250, then @2.8 with ss at 125-160-200-250, etc...?




  
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firme
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Post edited 5 months ago by firme.
     
May 13, 2019 20:04 |  #22

Test was same as above.... @250 from f1.8-f4 with flash at 1/32 with ss/250 for set a, then for set b ss/160 was used. Model was with sun on side right side with softbox on camera right.

http://www.mentegraphi​cs.com/fotoss/1.JPG (external link)
http://www.mentegraphi​cs.com/fotoss/1a.JPG (external link)
http://www.mentegraphi​cs.com/fotoss/1b.JPG (external link)

http://www.mentegraphi​cs.com/fotoss/2.JPG (external link)
http://www.mentegraphi​cs.com/fotoss/2a.JPG (external link)
http://www.mentegraphi​cs.com/fotoss/2b.JPG (external link)

http://www.mentegraphi​cs.com/fotoss/3.JPG (external link)
http://www.mentegraphi​cs.com/fotoss/3a.JPG (external link)
http://www.mentegraphi​cs.com/fotoss/3b.JPG (external link)

http://www.mentegraphi​cs.com/fotoss/4.JPG (external link)
http://www.mentegraphi​cs.com/fotoss/4a.JPG (external link)
http://www.mentegraphi​cs.com/fotoss/4b.JPG (external link)

http://www.mentegraphi​cs.com/fotoss/5.JPG (external link)
http://www.mentegraphi​cs.com/fotoss/5a.JPG (external link)
http://www.mentegraphi​cs.com/fotoss/5b.JPG (external link)

http://www.mentegraphi​cs.com/fotoss/6.JPG (external link)
http://www.mentegraphi​cs.com/fotoss/6a.JPG (external link)
http://www.mentegraphi​cs.com/fotoss/6b.JPG (external link)

http://www.mentegraphi​cs.com/fotoss/7.JPG (external link)
http://www.mentegraphi​cs.com/fotoss/7a.JPG (external link)
http://www.mentegraphi​cs.com/fotoss/7b.JPG (external link)

http://www.mentegraphi​cs.com/fotoss/8.JPG (external link)
http://www.mentegraphi​cs.com/fotoss/8a.JPG (external link)
http://www.mentegraphi​cs.com/fotoss/8b.JPG (external link)




  
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jcolman
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Post edited 5 months ago by jcolman.
     
May 13, 2019 20:56 |  #23

A very simple way to look at this is to:

1. take a photo without flash.

2. Is the subject too dark?

3. If so, add some flash, preferable from off camera axis and generally with a modifier like a soft box.

4. Is the subject now too bright?

5. If so, dial down the flash.

6. Rinse and repeat until you are happy with the results.

It's not an overly complicated process. Once you have practiced it a bit it will come quite naturally to you.


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firme
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May 13, 2019 21:32 |  #24

Jcolman, thanks for the tip and process... I guess I am just overthinking/paranoid.​.. as am concern if lets say exposure of background/subject is correct of what I choose/like. I know everyone has their own likes and what one considers as good/bad/overexposed/u​nderexposed/exposed correctly... guess not everyone will always agree and one will always have something to say. Something that is in the back on my mind. Thanks again.




  
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Angmo
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Post edited 5 months ago by Angmo.
     
May 13, 2019 23:51 |  #25

I shoot full manual. I think of flash outdoors in a very simplistic way.

Once I settle on exposure - I adjust ambient with shutter speed and flash with aperture.

The pics I posted above take one or two shots to set then I shoot away. With practice you’ll be very comfortable with using flash outdoors. Remember, the sun can be used to nice effect as a hair light, rim light too.


Nikons, Rolleiflexes, Elinchroms, Billinghams

  
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jcolman
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May 14, 2019 00:40 |  #26

Angmo wrote in post #18861064 (external link)
I shoot full manual. I think of flash outdoors in a very simplistic way.

Once I settle on exposure - I adjust ambient with shutter speed and flash with aperture.

The pics I posted above take one or two shots to set then I shoot away. With practice you’ll be very comfortable with using flash outdoors. Remember, the sun can be used to nice effect as a hair light, rim light too.

I pretty much do the same except that I pick my aperture / shutter speed combo that I want to work first then adjust ISO as needed.

I've done so many outdoor portraits/weddings that I can dial in what I think will work on my camera and flash before I take the first pic. Sometimes I'm a stop or so off but often I'm right on the money.


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soeren
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May 14, 2019 00:45 |  #27

Angmo wrote in post #18861064 (external link)
I shoot full manual. I think of flash outdoors in a very simplistic way.

Once I settle on exposure - I adjust ambient with shutter speed and flash with aperture.

The pics I posted above take one or two shots to set then I shoot away. With practice you’ll be very comfortable with using flash outdoors. Remember, the sun can be used to nice effect as a hair light, rim light too.

But aperture affects both ambient and flash so wouldnt it be easier to adjust ambient with shutter and flash with its output??


If history has proven anything. it's that evolution always wins!!

  
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Wilt
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Post edited 5 months ago by Wilt.
     
May 14, 2019 01:02 |  #28

soeren wrote in post #18861070 (external link)
But aperture affects both ambient and flash so wouldnt it be easier to adjust ambient with shutter and flash with its output??

The technique of adjustment depends upon the features of the flash...


  1. a typical nTTL flash with the ability to control power with FEC in spite of what nTTL wants to do ordinarily
  2. a fancier Autoflash with fractional Manual power settings
  3. a simple flash with only full Manual power setting
...each use a different methology to control flash vs. ambient relative contribution.

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