Top Photographers report- Heavy banding on mirrorless cameras in Silent mode

umphotography wrote in post #18881622
I think neil found out about this the hardway. He was moving about in silent mode at a wedding being stealthy. Thats how Mautner found out as well......so there goes sllent mode for wedding needs. Personally I think the little click that the current mirrored cameras make is not bad at all so i would assume thats what the mirrorless would also sound like.

Silent mode is awesome, but with the exception of the Sony A9, also limited. You can't use it for action, and you can't use it in certain artificial light.

My Sony A7r3 shutter sound is quieter than my 5D3. I haven't shot a Canon R recently enough to recall the shutter sound.

Choderboy wrote in post #18881625
I had actually typed 'banding' then changed to 'this problem'.
Would 'flicker effect' be more accurate? ie, referring to the Anti Flicker function that is in recent Canon DSLRs to overcome artificial lighting problems.

Yeah, it's certainly caused by the same thing that anti-flicker solves, but anti-flicker doesn't solve this.

I agree that 'banding' is confusing because this term was already used to describe shadow noise patterns with some sensors.

umphotography wrote in post #18881622
I think neil found out about this the hardway. He was moving about in silent mode at a wedding being stealthy. Thats how Mautner found out as well......so there goes sllent mode for wedding needs. Personally I think the little click that the current mirrored cameras make is not bad at all so i would assume thats what the mirrorless would also sound like.

No one is perfect but I'd call that a big mistake for a pro to make. I casually follow mirrorless discussions and have been aware of this for a long time. I would be right to be very unhappy if I was paying for a pro and they found out about this issue by their own trial and error.

One might even agree that only a fool would shoot a wedding with a single card camera, likewise only a fool would shoot a wedding with artificial lighting and silent shutter.
I would agree that the single card risk is bleeding obvious but little research is needed to discover the silent shutter issue. RTFM in fact.

EDIT: in the case of Canon EOS R, RTFM would not seem to uncover the issue.
Page 151 covers Silent Shooting. Moving subjects being distorted and inability to use flash mentioned, but artificial light problems not mentioned.
Page 16 covers Anti Flicker and warnings given but again no mention of silent shooting.

To be fair, most pros don't have the time to sit on discussion boards and follow this stuff. Most of their time is tied up with business related things, like editing, client communication, etc. I had no idea this was an issue until this thread.

Lichter21c wrote in post #18881638
To be fair, most pros don't have the time to sit on discussion boards and follow this stuff. Most of their time is tied up with business related things, like editing, client communication, etc. I had no idea this was an issue until this thread.

I think they have the time (or at least, I hope they do). I mean, I'm a manager of an engineering team in a demanding field and I have time to do this. I'd hate to think that being a photographer was a 150+ hour/week job.

I think the point is, for me photography is a hobby and so hanging out on a phorography board where I might learn about this is fun for me.

For a professional photographer, hanging out on this board is essentially working from home after hours.

JeffreyG wrote in post #18881643
I think they have the time (or at least, I hope they do). I mean, I'm a manager of an engineering team in a demanding field and I have time to do this. I'd hate to think that being a photographer was a 150+ hour/week job.

I think the point is, for me photography is a hobby and so hanging out on a phorography board where I might learn about this is fun for me.

For a professional photographer, hanging out on this board is essentially working from home after hours.

Photography has never been a livelihood for me, but I've always been serious enough to want to learn. I might have been fortunate enough to learn manual film photography and then processing with college classes, but then immediately found advantages/problems when developing photos when I got my first DSLR- the 5D (c). I think it's good for any photographer (whether self proclaimed pro, semi-pro, or amateur) to not blame camera first when something arises: but try to iron out what phenomenon is going on (you might find a limitation with your camera, but no matter, the final output is your final settings).

Yeah, I am a full time pro. I really only use this board for buying / selling now a days. Sometimes I have time at the end of the night (now) to bum around and read what's going on.

Most of the time, If I need something new I dont really have time to research. I usually need it by the next Saturday so I order whatever has good specs and fits my needs. I wish I had the time to sit down and research what would be the best fit, what's the current problems, where it ranks with other items.

I used to buy Canon, Sigma, and Tamron lenses. I would research which one was the best for my needs and such. Now, I just buy canon. There is nothing wrong with Sigma or Tamron, but I just dont have the time to look at MTF charts, reviews, specs. If it is what I needs, it's purchased. I miss the days of having fun buying things.

Any time I am shooting either a new scene or event I am not familiar with, or have new gear, I make a point to get to the shoot early and try everything out settings and gear. If I wanted to try silent shooting, I would have already used it long before the actual event, and then found out the problem myself, before it became a problem with my deliverables.

You don't get new gear and immediately assume you know all there is about the gear and then use it or a new feature for the first time in a paid gig. Just like you don't get a new track car, and then the first time you really use the vehicle, it is for a paid sponsored race.

Every piece of gear I buy, I spend a day or two using indoors, outdoors, etc and then know I am very comfortable using it later. Same with lighting gear, new lenses so I can AFMA them, check distortion effects, etc. That just seems prudent to me.

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18881683
Any time I am shooting either a new scene or event I am not familiar with, or have new gear, I make a point to get to the shoot early and try everything out settings and gear. If I wanted to try silent shooting, I would have already used it long before the actual event, and then found out the problem myself, before it became a problem with my deliverables.

You don't get new gear and immediately assume you know all there is about the gear and then use it or a new feature for the first time in a paid gig. Just like you don't get a new track car, and then the first time you really use the vehicle, it is for a paid sponsored race.

Every piece of gear I buy, I spend a day or two using indoors, outdoors, etc and then know I am very comfortable using it later. Same with lighting gear, new lenses so I can AFMA them, check distortion effects, etc. That just seems prudent to me.

True, but I dont think I would make a point to check the banding on silent shooting when using 60Hz lighting. I understand going through your stuff, and checking a very specific issue. I would have never thought that changing to silent mode would effect the banding of a image (I also do not use mirrorless, so it might be different).

If I am going to use silent shooting, I would have tested it before the event. It would have been indoors during my test. I would have seen the banding before the wedding event. I know because I have already tested silent mode indoors and figured out I would never really use that mode.

Lichter21c wrote in post #18881638
To be fair, most pros don't have the time to sit on discussion boards and follow this stuff. Most of their time is tied up with business related things, like editing, client communication, etc. I had no idea this was an issue until this thread.

I kept tripping over the information. it did not require hanging out on POTN or any other forum.

IMHO, common sense would be read some reviews or even just listen to some youtube reviews.
How many new features are there on mirrorless? Two major ones. Electronic shutter and Eye focus.
Sony eye focus is raved about by wedding photographers. It would be foolish to turn up at a wedding and try it out.
Testing with any lens you would use at a wedding, in various lighting, on various subjects and on an eye glass wearer would be common sense.
So once you had tested the eye focus, test electronic shutter. Or just turn up and use trial and error. The Bride should understand, it's a new feature, how were you to know?

After the failed wedding, one of the guests or family hears about it and shows the Bride some reviews, forum discussion etc. Dead wedding photographer walking.

I just Googled "electronic shutter artificial lighting"

Other searches "electronic shutter problems" or "electronic shutter disadvantages" and probably the most embarrassing for a wedding pro "electronic shutter wedding"

Pro should not mean ignorant regarding equipment. A good tradesman may not blame their tools but they should know their tools.

Choderboy wrote in post #18881628
No one is perfect but I'd call that a big mistake for a pro to make. I casually follow mirrorless discussions and have been aware of this for a long time. I would be right to be very unhappy if I was paying for a pro and they found out about this issue by their own trial and error.

Got to tell you. Mautner and Van Neikerk are among the very best in the industry. They are shooting these along side with other bodies. Mautner is a Nikon ambassador and he is actually field tester for intro cameras for Nikon before they are released to the public. He really knows what he is doing and wrks with Nikon engineering before you and I even see a body

Cliff reports the facts. He is now fully committed to the Z bodies and shoots on single card bodies. Something I wont do. But cliff can dance circles around me with his knowledge and skill sets. I spent a week with him and could easily spend a month with him and feel like I still could still learn a lot more. The man is a walking light meter

Once again....Fool was used as a metaphor when I made that post....Go look up metaphor in a dictionary and take a chill pill. It was meant to start a conversation not start a war

Wow, that deteriorated fast. Nevertheless, everybody makes mistakes and the best actually talk about and learn from it.
I am still glad that Mike brought that issue up - as it was not on my radar.