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FORUMS General Gear Talk Changing Camera Brands 
Thread started 14 Aug 2019 (Wednesday) 15:05
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Leica Q2 or Canon EOS R?

 
bounce
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Aug 14, 2019 15:05 |  #1

I'm torn between the two. My main cam is a 5D3 which I usually like to carry with a 24-105, 50mm 1.2, and a wide angle lens. I want something a bit more portable and convenient for vacationing and general use. I haven't used either of these cameras before, and never owned a Leica, period. What do you guys think is the right move here? If I go w/ the Eos R - I can get the adapter and still use all my glass, but having everything in one neat little package with the Leica is tempting. Only thing is if I open the box and play around with it and decide I don't like it, it's essentially a 5K piece of tech to sell "used"....anyone have experience with the two?




  
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Aug 14, 2019 15:35 |  #2

My thinking...
well, if you have dineros to fool arround then go for Leica, no doubt. This red dot is a special kind of symbol, yes indeed.
I would go Fuji or Sony if "portable" would be my goal but never ever Leica. I would not give those sausage/sauer kraut eaters such amount of money just because of the name on a small piece of electronics packed in plastic or whatever are made of these days.
Don't judge me; I just hate those snobbbby red dot shooters.


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bounce
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Aug 14, 2019 15:40 as a reply to  @ Mathmans's post |  #3

I'm wondering what makes it so good. I hope it's not like one of those things such as Bose Headphones - which everyone seems to speak so highly of, but everytime I put a set over my ears I think my Sony's do a much better job?!? People do speak quite highly of the Leica lenses, but I've never held one, let alone shoot with it. What attracts me is that it's a full-frame cam in a compact size, and because of the high MP, you are getting an effectively useful cam at 24, 35, and 50mm crops - I don't think that 75mm crop with 7mp is going to cut it for anything more than positing on social media. Theoretically, the EOS R is not that much bigger than this, but paired w/ the glass I have almost puts me back in 5D territory and may defeat the purpose altogether. idk....




  
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Post edited 10 months ago by daleg.
     
Aug 14, 2019 18:00 as a reply to  @ bounce's post |  #4

Bose? as in "Buy Other Sound Equipment?" :-P

EOS R vs the Leica Q2. Talk about a contrast! Those cameras are as different as night and day. I wouldn't know where to begin to describe their differences.

Personally, I accumulate lenses and cameras that I enjoy shooting. It's a life long thing. And I indulge myself - with the support of my better half. Color me lucky.

The cameras I once used and worshipped during the film era, which were long ago sold, I've since re-acquired. Copies of my former Hassy, my old nikons, my Leica M-3, etc. - - all are now parked again on my shelves. And I push film through them all - just not as much or as often as I'd like. Life is short. Why not? :-)

Have you ever held and handled a Leica lens? Words do not convey the sensation. Hint - do yourself a favor and go somewhere where you can do this, and do it. A small, solid, hefty chunk of beautifully machined brass? Adjusting the aperture ring or turning the focus ring - are experiences one does not encounter on a typical lens. Watching a person walk into your framing mask in the viewfinder is another experience not to be found on other cameras. The Q, by design, is a rather simplified experience. Compose, set your 3 variables and shoot. It's not about camera controls. I've heard some speak in terms of the zen of photography. But what do I know?

What I like most about the Q2 was that its announcement caused the price of the Q-P to drop ~ $2k - into a range I could then afford and did. Not needing a 47mp sensor, I am now the proud owner of a beautiful Q-P.

For most of the digital era, the Canon system has been my main gear. My shelves include the 1DX2, 1D4, 5D4, 5D, 7D2, SL2, SL1, SL1-IR, PS G12 & PS G2. And we won't go into lenses - except to say - there are too damn many. It's time to thin my Canon gear. The mass of a 1DX2 and 600/4 IS II with Gitzo 5 Series and Wimberley gimbal no longer looks like fun to haul and set up. My relatively svelte Sony RX10 Mk IV also gets to 600mm and its Zeiss lens isn't that bad - especially for a 1" sensor. And somedays I find myself thinking about the Oly 300 MFT combo. Hmmm.

Meanwhile, as Canon puttered around with underwhelming advancements, I had already moved into full frame Nikon gear - with the D850 and the Df, and - for about 3 years now - mirrorless APS-C with Fujifilm bodies - from X100S, X-E1, X-T1, & X-H1 (IBIS for manual focus Nikon mount lenses such as classic Zeiss lenses, Voigtlanders, and numerous Nikkor legacy lenses). And I almost forgot my token pair of 1" Sony's - the previously mentioned RX10 IV and its little brother, the RX100 VI.

I generally am not a Leica fanboy - nor is it my mission to defend their snobby customers (they have no lock on this) or even their price structure. What can I say - except there is just no other camera like them. Without apology, they set their prices at levels they determine will allow them to continue to produce the world's highest quality and make a profit. Based upon results, it works and the world continues to support them - at least enough of the world to keep them producing cameras.

Finally, if you buy and regret, I suspect the Q2 would be an easy - if not profitable - camera to sell. I hear they're hard to find.

Good luck and enjoy!
Dale

PS - when I find the time and energy to thin my Canon crop, I wouldn't be surprised to find an M6 &/or an M10-P and a lens or two added to the shelves. and a final note of caution: the Q is a gateway drug - it's a slippery slope!




  
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bounce
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Aug 14, 2019 20:25 as a reply to  @ daleg's post |  #5

Thank you so much for your thoughtful and detailed review! You put a lot of thoughts I had in my mind into words. I've watched countless videos on youtube about photogs and generally leisure users saying about the same - that it's an experience to be had. I must admit, I do like the notion of something being so well made that it transcends the boundaries of the function it was created for.

Perhaps I was just having buyer's remorse. I was on a waitlist at a couple different places, and ended up getting 2 Q2's shipped to me. So I listed one for sale, and I am looking at the box on the other side of my desk as it tempts me to open it up.

I know the EOS R is a completely different comparison, but in an effort to add a mirrorless option to my setup I was interested in these two.

I don't so much care about the fanboy thing. Like you said, if it's a great cam I'll continue to use it. If I decide otherwise, or as you mention, if it becomes a gateway to an M series - then you are right, it will sell close to, if not over the price I acquired it for due to the crazy demand right now.

I'll consider myself fortunate and enjoy it I suppose!

Thanks again!




  
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kf095
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Sep 02, 2019 13:42 |  #6

With Leica get ready for lengthy and no progress report service. Even if it is new camera under warranty. Depending where you are it might be not even in your country. Basically Leica has two real service facilities, one in Germany, one in USA. The rest is boutiques. I'm in G7 country and we don't even have Leica Store...
I have to pay for shipping and wait months for my Leica to be fixed under warranty.
Canon Service center is in twenty minutes drive and I could see the progress on-line. Service is something like few days for Canon DSLRs and lenses.


IMO, here is no obvious difference in final results a.k.a. pictures between R and Q2. I'm finding my Leica lenses to be nothing special comparing to L.
But handling and pleasure is on the Leica side.


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AlanU
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Sep 02, 2019 21:54 |  #7

I've been editing some photos as I've just got back from a "staycation" and took the ferry to the island. This thread made me smile as it remind me of a guy I saw with a Fuji X100f struggling to take a shot of the Goats that lived on top of the Coombs Old Country Market. While I was casually walking around with a light weight combo of my Sony A73 with Gmaster 16-35 and heavier A73 with Gmaster 70-200 f/2.8 I saw a goat and documented what I wanted. The Guy with the fuji was standing on a picnic table trying to get the shot ...good luck LOL!!! I was walking part of the day with my UWA combo with A73 and killer 85 f/1.8 prime.

I still shoot Canon but for my "vacation/general" use system I've simply pushed my Canon aside. I'm going all in with Sony to force myself to learn the system until it's second nature. I'm pretty much there now after shooting Sony for over a year now.

I'm just not the sort that cares for single focal length fixed lens bodies. I just don't get the point of limitation that takes away versatility. I do not have great pleasure in using a camera body for an "experience" either. You can put a 5dmk4 in my hands and I will enjoy photography just as much as throwing a Sony or Fuji body in my hands. Functionality is what I seek and I had no wonderful experience shooting with Fuji knobs when I owned that system. However some do like knobs and tactile controls.

Ask yourself how critical you are in personal documentation. If I walk around with a single focal length prime I must tell myself that I will miss certain focal lengths with a prime.

My point? ask yourself what you want in gear. Foot zooming is excellent but in my case I demand two bodies on me if I shoot with primes. Zooms are so good these days and when you demand versatility......

The beach photo I posted is something I could not achieve with a fixed lens body. I would buy a Sony point and shoot RX100mk7 before I ever buy an aps-c or FF fixed lens body.

If you don't mind aps-c I suggest looking into Fuji as they have a large lens lineup. I will never buy a Fuji aps-c due to my personal preference but when Canon comes out with an EOS R mk2 PRO I'd definitely consider it especially with the RF 15-35 f/2.8!!!!!!!!!!

Sony can either be very small form factor or big and heavy depending on what lens you want to use and speed of glass. EOS R is getting new RF lenses so Canon is slowly getting up to speed with mirrorless.

rent/borrow and see what works for you.


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airfrogusmc
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Post edited 10 months ago by airfrogusmc.
     
Sep 02, 2019 22:36 |  #8

Ko just a little sump'm for thought.

https://www.artphotoac​ademy.com/the-leica-look/ (external link)

I found a difference between my 35L and my 35 Summilux. It's not just sharpness but the way the Lux renders over the Canon. Some may think it's not worth the $ dif. I did and do.

I prefer my 90 APO of the 85L to. Really the only Canom lens I was really in love with was my 200 2L.

Also if you really want to know about the Q2 maybe get the skinny on Canon her but go here
There's a couple of guys shooting with Qs in this thread
https://www.fredmirand​a.com/forum/topic/9200​70/249 (external link)

I'm sure you will get a better handle on what the Q is like there.




  
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AlanU
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Sep 03, 2019 00:45 |  #9

airfrogusmc wrote in post #18920909 (external link)
Ko just a little sump'm for thought.

https://www.artphotoac​ademy.com/the-leica-look/ (external link)

I found a difference between my 35L and my 35 Summilux. It's not just sharpness but the way the Lux renders over the Canon. Some may think it's not worth the $ dif. I did and do.

I prefer my 90 APO of the 85L to. Really the only Canom lens I was really in love with was my 200 2L.

Also if you really want to know about the Q2 maybe get the skinny on Canon her but go here
There's a couple of guys shooting with Qs in this thread
https://www.fredmirand​a.com/forum/topic/9200​70/249 (external link)

I'm sure you will get a better handle on what the Q is like there.

Compare the 35Lmk2 rather than the old 35Lmk1. The render differences is quite substantial. The new nano coatings in the mk2 Canon primes do have a different render vs the old generation "sharpness" 35Lmk1, 50L, 85Lmk2 and even the 200 f/2IS.

The melting creamy bokeh of the 50L render is in a different league than many nervous render you find in Leica, Sony and even Canon mk2 Glass. This is my observation with older gen Canon glass bokeh. The newer glass typically seems to have more contrast in the bokeh vs the older Canon lenses I've owned. For example my Canon 70-200 f/2.8IS mk1 had much more consistent creamy bokeh backgrounds vs the mk2 I replaced it with.

IF I was in the OP's shoes I'd wait for the EOS R mk2. Using the amazing RF glass will have amazing IQ with the convenience of fast AF. Consider the new RF 50 f/1.2, RF 85 f/1.2, upcoming small sized 70-200 f/2.8!!! and 15-35 f/2.8. More glass is on route to build the RF line.

Bounce, even if you simply compared a 5dmk4 RAW file to the 5dmk3 YOU WILL see a difference in image quality. I know because I see a difference with my gear.

If you like that contrasty look...... start renting a Sony mirrorless system. The lens line is huge now and it can be your fun travel camera. I can go real small with lenses if I choose but when I want some "POP" 3d factor its easy peasy with a Sony render and I can slap on Sony Gmaster, G glass or 3rd party. Did I mention I love my Sigma 105 f/1.4 :)

If you want small form factor there are a tonne of smallish bodies. If you want pro glass it comes at a cost of weight if auto focus is a requirement.

I still have to pickup a small sized GMaster 24 f/1.4 but my Sigma 24mm f/1.4 ART still does a great job in 3d pop factor and contrasty Sony render. I really like the automotive images produces.

I try to reduce the edgy contast look that Sony can provide by simple post processing. Canon has a different look but it is what it is. We can always try to manipulate in post. I still have a preference to Sony files for cars and wildlife. Human subjects I process in a different manner.

You are familiar with your 5dmk3. I will say once you start playing with a 5dmk4 or Sony mirrorless you'll see the differences in dynamic range and high iso performance. Even the Fuji aps-c equipped with Sony crop sensor has similar high iso performance to the 5dmk3. I have no experience with Leica but they are not known in the industry for high iso performance. Reading reviews I have a serious problem if a Q2 - 47MP camera produces some apparent noise at a low iso 1600 setting!!

Do more research and see what works for you.


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airfrogusmc
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Post edited 10 months ago by airfrogusmc. (4 edits in all)
     
Sep 03, 2019 06:37 |  #10

To the OP go to another forum that has people with real experience shooting and working on files from both Leica lenses and Canon lenses and see what they have to say.

Leica, Zeiss, Voigtlander lenses all have very different renderings from each other and especially from Nikon, Canon, Sigma etc. This is something that is subjective. If you like the rendering from Zeiss over say Leica that is a personal thing. I would say all the images Alan posted look very much like one would expect from those lenses. Sharp yeah but nothing special in the rendering. Pretty clinical in my opinion. And as much as I liked my 200 2L I would surely take the way a 50 1.0 Noctilux or to a slightly different degree the 50 .95 renders any day of the week over the 200 2Ls rendering. It is a different look. But that's me.

There are even some that search out Leica lenses that were designed by particular lens designers. Some prefer the AA 35 Lux, some prefer the pre aspherical 35 lux which really exhibits the glow some really like and some prefer the 35 current lux FLE with the later being a more modern look. I have a 1950s single coated 50 f/2 Jupiter 8 (CHEAP LENS) that has a rendering nothing like a modern lens.

I was reading an interview with one of Leica's lens designers and he was saying that most of the lenses by Sigma, Nikon, Canon and many of other mass produced lenses and designed by computers and Leica lenses are designed by lens designers that have almost a century of lenses and all those design records to draw (pardon the pun) from. So if they want a new lens to have a certain look they can use some of what they have already learned about lens design to build that in to the new design. That is a very different approach to lens design than what is really popular today. It really boils down to what you prefer. And that is very subjective. But you will never know unless you try.

Some really like the look of the 28 Summilux on the Q and some are not all that crazy about it. Some prefer the M 1.4 version of the 28 Lux. I really don't like the DoF scales on the Qs lux. For me things like that are important. The Voigtlander, Zeiss and Leica M lenses all have easy to read and accurate DoF scales and that is important to me.

But I would really recommend shooting with both cameras and spending some time with both. Before I totally went all Leica 4 years ago I spent time with a lot of different cameras Sony and Fuji just to name two and wound up with Leica M. I have NO REGRETS. I have a very good friend that has a Q and just loves it. I have shot with it and it is a nice camera just not for me. Again TRY both and spend real time with both the cameras and, just as important, with the files before you buy. See what best fits for you. That's all that matters.




  
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AlanU
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Sep 03, 2019 10:28 |  #11

bounce wrote in post #18910323 (external link)
Thank you so much for your thoughtful and detailed review! You put a lot of thoughts I had in my mind into words. I've watched countless videos on youtube about photogs and generally leisure users saying about the same - that it's an experience to be had. I must admit, I do like the notion of something being so well made that it transcends the boundaries of the function it was created for.

Perhaps I was just having buyer's remorse. I was on a waitlist at a couple different places, and ended up getting 2 Q2's shipped to me. So I listed one for sale, and I am looking at the box on the other side of my desk as it tempts me to open it up.

I know the EOS R is a completely different comparison, but in an effort to add a mirrorless option to my setup I was interested in these two.

I don't so much care about the fanboy thing. Like you said, if it's a great cam I'll continue to use it. If I decide otherwise, or as you mention, if it becomes a gateway to an M series - then you are right, it will sell close to, if not over the price I acquired it for due to the crazy demand right now.

I'll consider myself fortunate and enjoy it I suppose!

Thanks again!

Did you open the box? :) I'm assuming you're shooting with it now. How is it past iso 1600??

Just thinking of small form factor fixed lens bodies. Dipping into the world of fixed lens aps-c bodies the Fuji X100F or the Ricoh GR3 are viable candidates for non interchangeable lens bodies. Not very expensive but great test to see if a fixed lens body is limiting. Lower priced test bed that will have less regrets in cash outlay.

Try going to a camera shop and throw on a Tamron 28-75 f/2.8 zoom on a Sony A73, A7r3, A9. Ridiculously light combo compared to my 5dmk3/4 that effortlessly can take photos of virtually anything you throw at it. NO regrets in losing an opportunity in documentation. Also consider the Sony 28mm f/2 for a small lens. Most importantly the 3 bodies I mentioned out performs your 5dmk3 in clean files at high iso and colour retention at high iso's.

I'd suggest something from Canon EOS R but at this moment they have very little to offer in the full frame mirrorless world for small primes. Nikon z6/7 is also a potential system but they also take the approach of high iq with large lenses.

I'm still waiting for Canon to increase it's RF lens selection. Also waiting for a new EOS R body too with dual cards. Everyone is playing catch up with Sony as far as features and tech.

All of my camera's I've owned I required at minimum a 16-35 f/2.8 zoom and 70-200 f/2.8. We all have personal preference and shooting styles but on vacation I'll take photos of things I usually do not shoot. This is where fixed lenses can be limiting. Both my Canon and Sony systems can land shots like this effortlessly........ Not certain if the Leica ecosystem can suit my needs casual travel needs. AF is crucial for both hired events work and casual needs to never miss a shot. TMK most Leica shooters express great joys in manual focus. Landing keepers for casual BIF shots or sports/automotive you need auto focus.


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Sep 03, 2019 17:11 |  #12

airfrogusmc wrote in post #18920909 (external link)
Ko just a little sump'm for thought.

https://www.artphotoac​ademy.com/the-leica-look/ (external link)

I found a difference between my 35L and my 35 Summilux. It's not just sharpness but the way the Lux renders over the Canon. Some may think it's not worth the $ dif. I did and do.

I prefer my 90 APO of the 85L to. Really the only Canom lens I was really in love with was my 200 2L.

Also if you really want to know about the Q2 maybe get the skinny on Canon her but go here
There's a couple of guys shooting with Qs in this thread
https://www.fredmirand​a.com/forum/topic/9200​70/249 (external link)

I'm sure you will get a better handle on what the Q is like there.

Taste just different. Also I’m not really Bokeh chaser, but 5.6-8 kind of guy.
Nor I care this much for anything longer than 50.
I have no hats, either. I prefer Leica every time I don’t need AF to Canon.
I have seen many photos with Q, Q2 and all kinds of M. And X and so on.
On Leica forum and on Flickr. Thousands of photos. It is part of my interest in photography. To look at someone else photos, including yours :).

Nothing really special in color with Leica. Monochrome is different thing. IMO.
I like Leica for its size including some small lenses. And I like L for rendering on EOS. I’m sure here is Leica look; but so is how L series renders color.


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Sep 03, 2019 17:30 |  #13

AlanU wrote in post #18921105 (external link)
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forum: Changing Camera Brands

That’s a beauty!


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Sep 03, 2019 18:33 |  #14

AlanU wrote in post #18921105 (external link)
Landing keepers for casual BIF shots or sports/automotive you need auto focus.

I really don't think what anyone who is after Q2 is into BIF as yours with Sony.
Here is no AF, frame burst is one frame per level advance. Slightly different catch with same as on Q2 lens.

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Sep 03, 2019 20:32 |  #15

One thing to keep in mind with the EOS R and an adapter for your lenses is that you won't be saving much space or weight. The adapter is long (it has to be) so the setup won't be much smaller than your 5D in a lot of ways other than height. With the Q2 it's a lot smaller and it looks like a great camera. I've never used a digital Leica of any kind so I can't comment on that part aspect, but it is a much better choice for size and weight.


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Leica Q2 or Canon EOS R?
FORUMS General Gear Talk Changing Camera Brands 
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Photography-on-the.net Digital Photography Forums is the website for photographers and all who love great photos, camera and post processing techniques, gear talk, discussion and sharing. Professionals, hobbyists, newbies and those who don't even own a camera -- all are welcome regardless of skill, favourite brand, gear, gender or age. Registering and usage is free.