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Thread started 12 Sep 2019 (Thursday) 14:42
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-= 90D owners unite! Discuss and Post Photos

 
SYS
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Oct 07, 2019 13:20 |  #826

Tom Reichner wrote in post #18940143 (external link)
.
I think that there are times when people take a photo in which the subject is underexposed, then they raise the exposure in post, and wonder why it is grainy, or think the camera is "bad at noise grain".

Of course, this is an unrealistic way for people to go about photographing things if they expect to get excellent results. . The exposure should be set to expose the subject properly so that it doesn't need to be brightened in post. . Only then can they evaluate the noise characteristics of a camera fairly.

.

That's correct. With 90D, I found that getting the proper exposure in camera is more critical because underexposed images are much harder to correct in PP. That's a huge challenge, though, for bird photographers faced with the lighting conditions changing so rapidly -- even with the Auto ISO with exposure compensation adjustment.



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Archibald
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Oct 07, 2019 13:35 |  #827

cdmazoff wrote in post #18940138 (external link)
Ah... Archie.. Can you explain the noise/fuzz/glare in this 2500 ISO denoised photo of the wood duck? I often get this result and I'm coming to the conclusion that I am not exposing properly (Not enough ETTR in the histo in the camera)

What are you thoughts on this phenomenon?

The exposure in this pic was fine IMO overall but the white detail on the duck was a bit too bright and there is a bit of spill from that. I think it is just a lens flare issue, made more visible because of the high dynamic range of the subject. So I doubt that changing the exposure would have made any difference. But if it is an exposure issue, then it would be too much ETTR, not too little.

Of course detail was lost because of the crop and ISO. I don't really recommend 2.9% crops. :-)


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SYS
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Oct 07, 2019 13:42 |  #828

Archibald wrote in post #18940157 (external link)
The exposure in this pic was fine IMO overall but the white detail on the duck was a bit too bright and there is a bit of spill from that. I think it is just a lens flare issue, made more visible because of the high dynamic range of the subject. So I doubt that changing the exposure would have made any difference. But if it is an exposure issue, then it would be too much ETTR, not too little.

Of course detail was lost because of the crop and ISO. I don't really recommend 2.9% crops. :-)

In that particular case, you're right, exposure wasn't the issue and no exposure adjustments would have made any difference. 2.9% crop at ISO 2500 is just too much to ask of the 90D.



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Oct 07, 2019 13:44 |  #829

cdmazoff wrote in post #18940139 (external link)
Archie... try using the 9 point AF Zone .. I do.. But that said I try to put the centre point on the subject's eye.. The others are there for insurance

Yes, I will give that a try. I also want to try the red dot sight, because that has the 90D using DPAF and that is supposed to be better.

I have my 7D2 set up to go into BIF mode when I press the * button. It goes into zone AF mode, and that can be useful for BIF in a blue sky. My BIFs are usually unplanned - I'm shooting static subjects with settings for that and suddenly a BIF appears. There is no time to change many settings if any. That is where the * button comes in. I don't think the 90D can be configured that way, though. It is not really the right body for emergency BIFs.


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Sharlin
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Oct 07, 2019 13:45 |  #830

Tom Reichner wrote in post #18940102 (external link)
.
It would be truly incredible to have an 80MP sensor in a 14 FPS (RAW) body.

There's always been this limitation where if MP goes up, frame rate goes down, and vice versa. . Photographers who would like to print HUGE mural-sized images of fast-paced action, shot in rapid bursts, with great resolution of very fine detail, are simply left out. . They are forced to compromise.

There's only so much processing power you can put into a hermetically sealed body without possibility of active fluid cooling. For a long time the 1DX and then 1DX2 had much greater thoughput than any other Canon ILC, at 252 and 320 Mpix/s respectively, with the exception of the 5Ds also at 250 Mpix/s or so. Clearly those numbers were as far as Canon could go even with dual processors.

However, now we have the M6II which can move pixels at an unprecedented rate of 420 Mpix/s (and even a bit more in the RAW burst mode!) while being a mid-range body with a single processor. But even at such high throughput, a hypothetical 83 Mpix body would still only reach the 5 fps of the 5Ds. If dual processors allow Canon to further increase the throughput to, say, 600 Mpix/s (!), that would result in an extremely reasonable 7 fps at 83 Mpix. But 14 fps or even 10 fps? That's almost certainly a pipe dream.




  
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pknight
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Oct 07, 2019 13:49 |  #831

Tom Reichner wrote in post #18940035 (external link)
Unfortunately, I have similar shooting habits to pknights. . I usually only shoot two frames at a time. . I don't mean to - I wish I would rip off longer bursts. . But for some reason, my finger almost always lets off the shutter as soon as it presses down. . It's like some kind of weird muscle memory that I have not been able to train out of myself. . I often DON'T get what I need, and so often wish that I had held my finger down a bit longer so that I could have captured more frames to choose from.

All that, plus, I don't have any desire to sort through several thousand images every time I go out!


Digital EOS 90D Canon: EF 50mm f/1.8 II, EF 50mm f/2.5 Compact Macro, Life-Size Converter EF Tamron: SP 17-50mm f/2.8 DiII, 18-400mm f/3.5-6.3 DiII VC HLD, SP 150-600 f/5-6.3 Di VC USD G2, SP 70-200 f/2.8 Di VC USD, 10-24mm f/3.5-4.5 DiII VC HLD Sigma: 30mm f/1.4 DC Art Rokinon: 8mm f/3.5 AS IF UMC

  
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russbecker
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Oct 07, 2019 13:54 as a reply to  @ post 18940113 |  #832

Everything is wrong here for a good photo; none of it the 90D's fault, except maybe the AF, but a small silhouette is not exact friendly to AF. Any purported DR is not a cure for bad light. The most direct value of DR is exposure latitude, not the ability top push shadows in poor lighting that also has highlights before pushing.

Nowhere in here did I claim this was a good photo. If I were not out testing this camera body I would have deleted all of the RAW images before even pulling the camera card. I kept it, and posted it, entirely for informational purposes about what can or cannot be done with the RAW files from the 90D; there is always someone inquiring about what images look like when pushed N stops.

I was surprised the AF did this well given the lack of contrast and being in deep shadow. I don't know about you, but I learn as much from bad shots as I do from good shots. Kind of like scientific experiments, you only learn from failures.


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SYS
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Oct 07, 2019 14:02 |  #833

For sports photographers interested in 90D, I ran into this blog review of the camera with lots of football action shots:

http://ksimonian.com …esults-49ers-vs-steelers/ (external link)



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Oct 07, 2019 14:15 as a reply to  @ Archibald's post |  #834

Since I always have the 1.4 ex III attached to my 100-400 mk2 I can't use the 45 pt full Auto Zone .. but I do get 9 cross point. and use that.

I know what you mean about glare on a Wood Duck!!!!!!!!!

But I was just asking.

Yes.. it could be diffraction or moisture in the air.. but I seem to be getting more of that on my 90D than I did on my 800D

However, when I do connect.. it's crackers!!!!

CD


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Oct 07, 2019 14:22 as a reply to  @ SYS's post |  #835

Excellent!!!


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like underpants in a dryer without Cling Free" (Anon)
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Eric ­ K.
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Oct 07, 2019 14:26 |  #836

Archibald wrote in post #18940160 (external link)
Yes, I will give that a try. I also want to try the red dot sight, because that has the 90D using DPAF and that is supposed to be better.

I have my 7D2 set up to go into BIF mode when I press the * button. It goes into zone AF mode, and that can be useful for BIF in a blue sky. My BIFs are usually unplanned - I'm shooting static subjects with settings for that and suddenly a BIF appears. There is no time to change many settings if any. That is where the * button comes in. I don't think the 90D can be configured that way, though. It is not really the right body for emergency BIFs.

Sounds like maybe two buttons might change to your emergency-BIF mode? The funny button on top next to the shutter to toggle to the appropriate focus point and customize the AF-ON to turn on AI-SERVO mode (have to hold it down though).

In all my shooting of Canon cameras I’ve never used the customized “C1-3” options on the mode dial because I’ve never done any serious BIF or other more specialized shooting where I knew ahead of time what settings I would need to change - perhaps some of the BIF settings could go there?




  
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SYS
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Oct 07, 2019 14:31 |  #837

Eric K. wrote in post #18940190 (external link)
In all my shooting of Canon cameras I’ve never used the customized “C1-3” options on the mode dial because I’ve never done any serious BIF or other more specialized shooting where I knew ahead of time what settings I would need to change - perhaps some of the BIF settings could go there?

While I had the 90D, I set "C1" for bird "portraits" and "C2" for BIF. With the 90D, you're limited to C1-C2. I always use these custom buttons. On my 5D IV, I had "C3" for bracket shooting.



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Tom ­ Reichner
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Oct 07, 2019 14:50 |  #838

russbecker wrote in post #18940165 (external link)
I don't know about you, but I learn as much from bad shots as I do from good shots. Kind of like scientific experiments, you only learn from failures.

I agree!

I learn more from bad shots where the camera was not up to the task. . A good shot ..... not really sure if there is anything I can learn from that (unless it is a shot taken in absolutely horrible conditions that somehow came out perfect SOOC). . I only learn about a camera's limitations when those limits are exceeded. . How else will one learn exactly where those limits lie?

That being said, I would be interested in knowing what that bird shot would have looked like if it had been set to expose the subject properly, and not pushed up in post. . I guess I am very interested in what a camera itself can do, and not so interested in what processing can do.

.


"Your" and "you're" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"They're", "their", and "there" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"Fare" and "fair" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one. The proper expression is "moot point", NOT "mute point".

  
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Eric ­ K.
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Oct 07, 2019 15:15 |  #839

SYS wrote in post #18940168 (external link)
For sports photographers interested in 90D, I ran into this blog review of the camera with lots of football action shots:

http://ksimonian.com …esults-49ers-vs-steelers/ (external link)

Thanks for sharing that good find!

An interesting (and quite good) set of photos he posted on that page. I was hoping for a bit more discussion of his feeling using the 90D compared to other bodies - the photos looked pretty good to me for JPG with only slight adjustments!




  
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John ­ Sheehy
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Oct 07, 2019 15:16 |  #840

Archibald wrote in post #18940157 (external link)
The exposure in this pic was fine IMO overall but the white detail on the duck was a bit too bright and there is a bit of spill from that. I think it is just a lens flare issue, made more visible because of the high dynamic range of the subject. So I doubt that changing the exposure would have made any difference. But if it is an exposure issue, then it would be too much ETTR, not too little.

Of course detail was lost because of the crop and ISO. I don't really recommend 2.9% crops. :-)

It might be atmosphere at play, too. The air is often less clear than it seems to us. When shooting things at a distance, the contrast drops both at the global level and the microcontrast level. For global contrast, there is no big deal because you can just boost it without boosting noise much, but microcontrast losses are fixed with sharpening - and that sharpens the noise, too.




  
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