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FORUMS General Gear Talk Changing Camera Brands 
Thread started 22 Dec 2019 (Sunday) 20:45
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Lifelong Canon User Considering Nikon or Sony

 
CyberDyneSystems
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Dec 25, 2019 21:09 |  #16

MrChip wrote in post #18980629 (external link)
... Are they close in Dynamic Range and high ISO from your experience?

My understanding from reading on this is that the EOS-R is slightly , very slightly, but measurably, behind the 5D4.

Frankly, I believe the EOS-R and the 5D4 share essentially the same sensor. However, my theory is that due to the EOS-R being mirrorless with a sensor that is always on when shooting (for the viewfinder and AF) that the changes needed for these differences in how the cameras function, is the only real difference in the two sensors performance. That for whatever reasons, heat, etc. when you take the 5D4 sensor and re-wire to be on all the time it simply is susceptible to more noise, no matter how slight the difference is.

Measurable, yes. visible? I haven't seen it yet. They seem pretty much the same to me, but again, I haven't shot the EOS-R as much yet. I have seen review sights that have found ways to illustrate it, but they seem to have to work pretty hard at it.


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SkedAddled
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Dec 25, 2019 22:01 |  #17

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #18980696 (external link)
My understanding from reading on this is that the EOS-R is slightly , very slightly, but measurably, behind the 5D4.

...for whatever reasons, heat, etc. when you take the 5D4 sensor and re-wire to be on all the time it simply is susceptible to more noise, no matter how slight the difference is.

I'd also expect this to be true, though I have no dealings with the R, and an
always-on sensor does not fit my desires or needs.

But I'll also offer that the 5D4 is a colossal improvement over previous models, not including the 1D-series,
which I have no experience with.

All in all, I've followed a few similar discussions, and the general consensus seems to put the 5D4
at the top of the Canon heap, if you're not after a 1D-series.
My own preference and use keeps the camera's size smaller, much like the 40D/50D.
The extra bulk of a battery grip was part of my 50D purchase, which I tried exactly once,
and I did not like it. I felt it was not suited to my own preference, and it's been closeted since,
which is why I did not consider any of the 1D-series for my own use.

While I'm not a birder or sports enthusiast, consider a 12800-ISO 5D4 image from a low-light environment:

IMAGE: https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49240483097_e87dabb0fb_o.jpg

Craig5D4|50D|S3iS|AF:Canon 28-135 USM IS|MF:Tamron SP 28-80|Tamron SP 60-300|Soligor 75-260|Soligor 400|Soligor C/D 500|Zuiko 50 f/1.8|others
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MrChip
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Dec 26, 2019 13:26 |  #18

Wow I love this forum! Everything written makes sense, how the EOS-R will be behind 5D IV with same sensor due to always on and the noise from the heat. Jake, if it is only slightly behind, I think I can live with that because it will be a huge improvement over my 6D II. I can say that there are many times I do not use my Canon gear due to its bulk and weight. All my DSLRs have grips on them so they are all large. Yes, I could take the grips off but there are vacations where I need to pack light and I end up relying on just my Galaxy S9. The idea of having a smaller EOS-R with a compact RF lens is also appealing. I will keep you posted on my thoughts and final decision.


Camera: Canon 70D and 7D with grips,
Canon lenses: 100-400 Mark II, 70-200F2.8, 300F4 IS, 85F1.8, 50F1.8, 17-55 F2.8 EFS, and 1.4x extender
Other lenses: Tamron 28-75 F2.8
Wish List: Canon 300mm F2.8 and 5D Mark IV (feel free to donate)

  
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CyberDyneSystems
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Post edited over 1 year ago by CyberDyneSystems. (2 edits in all)
     
Dec 26, 2019 15:32 |  #19

MrChip wrote in post #18980932 (external link)
Wow I love this forum! Everything written makes sense, how the EOS-R will be behind 5D IV with same sensor due to always on and the noise from the heat. Jake, if it is only slightly behind, I think I can live with that because it will be a huge improvement over my 6D II. I can say that there are many times I do not use my Canon gear due to its bulk and weight. All my DSLRs have grips on them so they are all large. Yes, I could take the grips off but there are vacations where I need to pack light and I end up relying on just my Galaxy S9. The idea of having a smaller EOS-R with a compact RF lens is also appealing. I will keep you posted on my thoughts and final decision.


I was slow to adopt the EOS-R for a number of reasons, not the least of which my prior Mirrorless have always left me a little wanting (Nikon 1V, Fuji XT1)
But with the deals recently I finally caved, and I have to say the more I use this little camera, the more I find myself truly enjoying it as a magnificent flexible tool.

- It's viewfinder and LCD are much better than my Fuji's (two generations old now)

- It uses the same batteries as my still very much in use 5D4 and 7D2 (and 5D2 IR Conversion)

- Despite being very different from a DSLR, it is Canon, so still much more familiar than any of the others I have tried.

- It's lens flexibility is amazing;

  • I can use Native RF (Still don't have any)
  • EF (with adapter, it's truly the same as native performance.)
  • EF-S So many options! For the whole vacation camera, rather than a whole separate camera with different gear, I can just pack the EOS-R and my 18-135mm, and be completely familiar with everything, still have a compact size and weight, and use the "crop mode" for a nice 12MP image. Do you know how many times over the past decades I have temporarily "forgotten" that my EF-S won;t fit or work on half my cameras? Not so with the EOS-R!
  • With "Focus peaking" and the tilty screen, and readily available adapters, any manual focus lens is going to be easier to use on the R than it would be with the DSLRs I own.
  • Macro will be fun again!

- Despite all it's portability and around the house uses, don't forget it's got the 5D4's awesome FF sensor in it, so anytime I need a second FF body to use with my 5D4, I have it. If I had a 2nd 5D4, it would ONLY get used when I needed two, which is really rare. Most often my need for a second body is for wildlife work, one zoom and one on the big 500mm, in those cases the 7D2 is the 2nd body. But for event work and Senior Portraits etc., I often wished I had a 2nd 5D4. Now the same little guy I am using for fun and games will be drafted into a serious workhorse and I sacrifice nothing.

It's a great do all tool IMHO.

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Tronhard
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Post edited over 1 year ago by Tronhard. (3 edits in all)
     
Feb 09, 2020 14:10 |  #20

I was looking for a camera as an all-in-one solution. I had used the Canon Powershot SX40, 50 and 60, but while they have amazing lenses the sensors are too small and get noise easily. I went to the Canon PowerShot G3X - 1" sensor, 24-600mm equivalent lens, but I was frustrated by the add-on EVf (necessary IMHO when shooting with a long telephoto) adding both bulk and complexity to the unit. I went looking for an alternative.

Looking at the reviews it came down to the Sony RX-10 IV. It had excellent reviews, and is packed with features (some of which I may not use), but it DID have a 1" sensor, 24-600 equivalent fast lens, and was built like a mini DSLR. I managed to sell the G3X for what I had paid and got the current deal on the Sony.

I am so used to Canon that I know the menus and ergonomics like the back of my hand, so it is a bit of a learning curve to get to use the Sony as I would like to. I have to say the paper booklet was cursory, and the on-line manual (IMHO) pretty horrendous, so I have a book on the camera coming today or tomorrow.

Itching to see if I had made the right choice I took the camera with me on a morning stroll to a local beach and submit the following results: ALL IMAGES HAND-HELD

First a general shot of the bay: To see the wide-angle performance


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Then a closer look at the trees lining the bay along the water line - a good test of the dynamic range I thought


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"All the beauty of life is made up of light and shadow", Leo Tolstoy;
"Skill in photography is acquired by practice and not by purchase" Percy W. Harris
We aren't remembered for the gear we use, rather the quality of the images we create. Me...

  
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Feb 09, 2020 14:13 |  #21

Then some Dotterals trying to ignore me!


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"All the beauty of life is made up of light and shadow", Leo Tolstoy;
"Skill in photography is acquired by practice and not by purchase" Percy W. Harris
We aren't remembered for the gear we use, rather the quality of the images we create. Me...

  
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Tronhard
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Feb 09, 2020 14:22 |  #22

Now into the forest for a close-up of bark in the dim light


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"All the beauty of life is made up of light and shadow", Leo Tolstoy;
"Skill in photography is acquired by practice and not by purchase" Percy W. Harris
We aren't remembered for the gear we use, rather the quality of the images we create. Me...

  
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Tronhard
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Feb 09, 2020 14:26 |  #23

And to complete the survey a couple of portraits taken under a coloured canopy


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"All the beauty of life is made up of light and shadow", Leo Tolstoy;
"Skill in photography is acquired by practice and not by purchase" Percy W. Harris
We aren't remembered for the gear we use, rather the quality of the images we create. Me...

  
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SkedAddled
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Feb 09, 2020 15:17 |  #24

Impressive results Trevor, particularly with dynamic range.

You've not mentioned if there's been any PP done, however.


Craig5D4|50D|S3iS|AF:Canon 28-135 USM IS|MF:Tamron SP 28-80|Tamron SP 60-300|Soligor 75-260|Soligor 400|Soligor C/D 500|Zuiko 50 f/1.8|others
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Tronhard
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Post edited over 1 year ago by Tronhard. (2 edits in all)
     
Feb 09, 2020 18:27 |  #25

SkedAddled wrote in post #19006624 (external link)
Impressive results Trevor, particularly with dynamic range.

You've not mentioned if there's been any PP done, however.


Hi Craig and thanks for your comment and question.

The images were shot in both RAW and JPG. I imported the RAW images into Photoshop, straightened a horizon on one, did a minor amount of sharpening to compensate for the AA filter (which I would do on any photo apart from the 5DS R) and did a colour balance for the portraits as the light was drastically impacted by the colour of the sail cloth above - my other half looked like boiled lobster, and I wanted to live....  :p

The big thing was probably reducing the size down, both in PS to go within the 10MB limit, then the website resizing of the images to a max 1600 dimension.

This will not move me from my Canon gear, this is a specific camera for a single camera solution. I am working to be able to use some of the advanced features of the is camera, so it is very early days. So far I have stuck to the basics that I would do for any camera.


"All the beauty of life is made up of light and shadow", Leo Tolstoy;
"Skill in photography is acquired by practice and not by purchase" Percy W. Harris
We aren't remembered for the gear we use, rather the quality of the images we create. Me...

  
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Tronhard
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Feb 09, 2020 19:09 |  #26

I am generally happy and very impressed by the camera, although some of the bokeh in the images of the dotterals was quite sharp - something i has seen in reviews of the camera, but overall, a great unit. I suspect that with recent deals and the fact the camera is heading for 3 years on the market that it is about to be replaced by some new "you beaut" updated version...


"All the beauty of life is made up of light and shadow", Leo Tolstoy;
"Skill in photography is acquired by practice and not by purchase" Percy W. Harris
We aren't remembered for the gear we use, rather the quality of the images we create. Me...

  
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Lifelong Canon User Considering Nikon or Sony
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