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Thread started 12 Mar 2020 (Thursday) 15:31
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Coronavirus General Discussion (no politics, no flamewars!)

 
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Wilt
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Post edited 2 months ago by Wilt. (8 edits in all)
     
Mar 31, 2020 23:21 |  #1456

itsallart wrote in post #19037849 (external link)
Wilt, it's all about $$$$

Yeah, but lest I have yet another post deleted, I will leave it at that. My reporting of known fact gets interpreted as political in nature, even when I never intended it to be anything but bringing light to misbeliefs.


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SkedAddled
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Apr 01, 2020 00:05 |  #1457

Wilt wrote in post #19037854 (external link)
...My reporting of known fact gets interpreted as political in nature, even when I never intended it to be anything but bringing light to misbeliefs.

Yet your 'known facts' are frequently presented as speculation or hearsay,
with nothing to back your claims in support.

And just as before, your claims now of 'every state' having to outbid one another
and FEMA upping the bidding wars, leads to no definitive conclusion from the content
of the sources you've provided, and that was only after you were prompted
to provide the source(s).

Put simply, they are all anecdotal reports, with little backing proof to lend credence
to the stories' content. I attribute your contribution now to the previously-displayed
alarmist and doomsayer figures you have previously interjected.

I certainly understand your fear and trepidation, Wilt,
but it does nothing positive for you to project your own fears and uncertainties
upon the others here. We seem to be coming together during a worrisome crisis
to vent and sound off, while you appear to come here instead to instill fear
among the masses. It's not healthy for you or the rest of us.

Get outta yer house, man. Go take some pictures in a place far from others.


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Of course I'm all right! Why? What have you heard?!?

  
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Wilt
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Post edited 2 months ago by Wilt. (9 edits in all)
     
Apr 01, 2020 00:34 |  #1458

SkedAddled wrote in post #19037873 (external link)
Yet your 'known facts' are frequently presented as speculation or hearsay,
with nothing to back your claims in support.

And just as before, your claims now of 'every state' having to outbid one another
and FEMA upping the bidding wars, leads to no definitive conclusion from the content
of the sources you've provided, and that was only after you were prompted
to provide the source(s).

Put simply, they are all anecdotal reports, with little backing proof to lend credence
to the stories' content. I attribute your contribution now to the previously-displayed
alarmist and doomsayer figures you have previously interjected.

I certainly understand your fear and trepidation, Wilt,
but it does nothing positive for you to project your own fears and uncertainties
upon the others here. We seem to be coming together during a worrisome crisis
to vent and sound off, while you appear to come here instead to instill fear
among the masses. It's not healthy for you or the rest of us.

Get outta yer house, man. Go take some pictures in a place far from others.

So the fact that 50 governors of states participated in a conference call to discuss this with Federal officials is not adequate evidence?! Statements by Governors are not adequate evidence of what is occurring?
Or that a seior US Senator has voiced concern about this situation does not matter?

It is not my fear and trepidiation...I live where the fatality is about 2% and the cases are low and suppressed in growth, unlike LA County. So I have no fundamental reason to fear, yet.
I repeatedly sense hostility to my posts in your reactions of 'prove it'. Why?

I do not express personal feelings of fear, I present facts which can be readily supported in reliable and hopefully impartial sources. I go out every day for a 2 mile walk, and to say hello to others getting fresh air in the neighborhood. I go into grocery and hardware and local sandwich stores, I just did both yesterday, in spite of my wife's wishes that I did not do so as often. But I have not driven my car more than 2 blocks, and that was to clear parking spaces so my neighbor could have a tree removal service come to their house. Does that sound like someone locked in fear?! I won't go out to take pictures because the county health authority have made unnecessary trips illegal...police are starting to issue citations here.

What our county health officer says, "As for outdoor exercise, people certainly need to get out, but do this in your own immediate neighborhoods. Do not drive except to provide or obtain an essential service. Do not go into other neighborhoods for recreation. " I complied, even before this statement was recently made, and I do wear a mask and gloves to protect others and to protect myself, in stores. Pursuit of a hobby is not an essential activity.


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SkedAddled
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Apr 01, 2020 01:26 |  #1459

Wilt wrote in post #19037890 (external link)
...I repeatedly sense hostility to my posts in your reactions of 'prove it'. Why?...

It's not only myself, if you look back.

And even I had a cavalier outlook when I first entered this discussion.

But the fact remains that you or anyone else here are most certainly NOT qualified experts
on the emerging situation, and so it stands to normal reason that none of us are able
to comment authoratively on the emerging changes and outcome of what's become
a worldwide pandemic scare.

Time and again, you have been requested to source figures and details you post here,
simply because you would appear to present yourself as an expert on all things statistical
and medical. And time after time, again, you have repeated your eagerness to
introduce figures or stories, while many of us ask you to cite your figures and stories
afterwards, because you've stirred a pot.


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Capn ­ Jack
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Post edited 2 months ago by Capn Jack.
     
Apr 01, 2020 07:30 |  #1460

davesrose wrote in post #19037790 (external link)
And we know that this coronavirus is not the same type as your examples: 40% of flu viruses being rhinoviruses, and 20% being coronaviruses. SARS coronaviruses are very different (and are not based on person to person origin)

COVID-19 Emergence (external link)

By "flu" viruses, I suppose you mean "influenza"? They are different families.

Influenza is in the family Orthomyxoviridae, while coronaviruses are, unsurprisingly, in the family Coronaviridae. Coronaviruses are positive sense RNA, influenza are negative sense RNA viruses. There are many other differences as well, justifying their separation into the different families mentioned earlier. Rhinoviruses are yet a third family, the Picornaviridae

Edit- I'm not sure what the cited reference has to do with your statement, as it discusses the emergence of this pandemic, and not the relationship of influenza with other viruses.




  
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sapearl
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Post edited 2 months ago by sapearl. (2 edits in all)
     
Apr 01, 2020 07:39 |  #1461

Dr. Amy Acton is a highly respected health professional and the Director of the Ohio Department of Health. This minute and a half interview is quite informative, gives a good general sense of some of the issues, and her thoughts on how long this will be with us in Ohio.

https://www.wkyc.com …%20the%20full%2​0interview (external link)

Essentially the Corona problem will be with us for a few years until we get vaccines, anti-virals and general population immunity.


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Apr 01, 2020 08:10 |  #1462

Wilt wrote in post #19037778 (external link)
The latest news...ventilators held by the Federal Surplus are being made available to all 50 states...but they have to BID on them. And then FEMA gets to bid as well.

This is the part that's insane,. vmad


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digital ­ paradise
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Apr 01, 2020 08:27 |  #1463

Wilt wrote in post #19037778 (external link)
The latest news...ventilators held by the Federal Surplus are being made available to all 50 states...but they have to BID on them. And then FEMA gets to bid as well.

So what is behind that?


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Post edited 2 months ago by CyberDyneSystems. (2 edits in all)
     
Apr 01, 2020 08:52 |  #1464

Wilt was good enough to follow up with all these links,.

As to speculating what's behind it beyond the reading,. if I answered with my opinions (or even if I posted links to the facts) Pekka would have to ban me.

Perhaps it is safe to say this, one f the interesting side effects of the Corona virus is how it is exposing the failures of relying entirely on the free market system. There are some things for which government has to play a role, some reasons why we pay taxes. A coordinated effort in an pandemic appears to be just such a "thing". South Korea, Singapore etc, are showing us this.

this one is a gem as well;
https://www.businessin​sider.com …n-medical-supplies-2020-3 (external link)


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gjl711
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Apr 01, 2020 09:28 |  #1465

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #19038051 (external link)
...
Perhaps it is safe to say this, one f the interesting side effects of the Corona virus is how it is exposing the failures of relying entirely on the free market system. There are some things for which government has to play a role, some reasons why we pay taxes. A coordinated effort in an pandemic appears to be just such a "thing". South Korea, Singapore etc, are showing us this....

Also, how poorly prepared some state governments are.


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Apr 01, 2020 09:52 |  #1466

From an article Wilt linked to (external link):

Business Insider wrote:
A spokesperson from HHS walked back her initial statement about securing an agreement with Philips to produce the ventilators immediately, instead claiming to ProPublica that the health tech corporation is only required to deliver the breathing devices "as they are completed."

So the contract left out a completion date? I guess the government–uh, sorry, I mean the purchaser–didn't have any lawyers. :rolleyes


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Post edited 2 months ago by itsallart.
     
Apr 01, 2020 10:11 |  #1467

Busy making masks. This is a much better design called Olson mask that I improved and added some extras. It has a pocket for a filter of choice and adjustable elastic to fit any head size and a wire piece for the nose. So far I've made ten dozen and making more until I run out of fabric. Most of them have been donated but some are going to friends. You can see the filter pocket on bottom right. Ugly green elastic and purple toggles because nothing else is available.


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Post edited 2 months ago by Lester Wareham. (2 edits in all)
     
Apr 01, 2020 10:14 |  #1468

davesrose wrote in post #19037802 (external link)
Statistics taken out of context from sources like twitter. Granted the estimate I saw from an epidemiologist was over 2 weeks ago, and specifics change. I work in an epidemiology branch, and our director fielded questions about whether the peak number of deaths in US will be 200K. His response was that it fell in a range, that he hoped it would be lower, but the whole potential can be lower or higher from that guesstimate.


Archibald wrote in post #19037809 (external link)
Don't trust Johns Hopkins U?

It is the out of context part to be wary off, this is often the problem with media reporting.

To get the context you need to read the (hopefully peer reviewed) paper and have sufficient knowledge of statistics and mathematical modelling to get the full context, even then you probably need some understanding of the actual discipline.

Thus the old quote about lies, dam lies and statistics.


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Apr 01, 2020 10:31 |  #1469

digital paradise wrote in post #19038035 (external link)
So what is behind that?

Capitalism!!!


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Post edited 2 months ago by FarmerTed1971.
     
Apr 01, 2020 10:33 |  #1470

Dyson and Tesla are now making, and shipping, ventilators! Awesome news.

https://www.architectu​raldigest.com …10-days-covid-19-patients (external link)

https://www.reuters.co​m …f-cost-musk-idUSKBN21I2KX (external link)


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