Canon Announces Development of the EOS R5

Choderboy wrote in post #19008547
With RF 1.4 and 2X TCs announced, 9 new RF lenses including the TCs and 100-500, that leaves 6 new RF lenses.
The new TCs make me suspect at least one RF big white is coming, maybe two.

Can you use your EF TC's with your EF lenses, or are you going to have to buy RF-TC's for the 5R using EF lenses ?

Bianchi wrote in post #19050364
I'm with you on the fully articulating screen, but am I missing something, I dont see no joystick...

this one?

Bianchi wrote in post #19050362
I wonder if Voigtlander, Zeiss, Sigma, Tamron, and Samyung will make native glass for the R5, like they do for Sony. Guess they will wait to see how well it's received.

I don’t see it happening as quick as Sony. Sony share their AF algorithm with third parties (and have 12% of Tamron shares) so they have more reason to make E mount lenses compared to reverse engineering Canon/Nikon lenses.

Bianchi wrote in post #19050364
I'm with you on the fully articulating screen, but am I missing something, I dont see no joystick...

As Joseph posted, there’s definitely one.

joeseph wrote in post #19050367
this one?

Hosted photo: posted by joeseph in
./showthread.php?p=190​50367&i=i226354263
forum: Canon Digital Cameras

Dlee13 wrote in post #19050368
I don’t see it happening as quick as Sony. Sony share their AF algorithm with third parties (and have 12% of Tamron shares) so they have more reason to make E mount lenses compared to reverse engineering Canon/Nikon lenses.

As Joseph posted, there’s definitely one.

Thanks fellows, much appreciated that there is a joystick and that articulating screen.

Bianchi wrote in post #19050366
Can you use your EF TC's with your EF lenses, or are you going to have to buy RF-TC's for the 5R using EF lenses ?

With an EF to R adaptor installed on the camera, it should take EF lenses or an EF TC + lens.

RDKirk wrote in post #19049971
Well these are interesting to me:

"A Canon first, the EOS R5 will feature 5-axis In-Body Image Stabilization, which works in conjunction with Optical IS equipped with many of the RF and EF lenses."

Making it work "in conjunction" with EF lenses was a big discussion point around here a couple of months ago. I'll be keenly interested in how they make that happen. If it's a matter of some far-sighted future-proofed design that had always been inherent in the EF design, I'd have to say, "Well played, Canon."

"Dual-card slots: 1x CFexpress and 1x SD UHS-II."

Well, that's the answer to that question. So I'd buy one of those obscenely priced CFexperss cards and just leave it in as an immediate backup.

Olympus and Sony have had IBIS and Lens IS working in conjunction for years. Fuji XT-4 has DIS that works in conjunction with IBIS and OIS!
It was a big discussion point around here but why? Were none of those people aware of Sony and Olympus, or don't they think Canon are capable of doing what other manufacturers can do? Who cares. Canon will be the fourth manufacturer to do this.

TeamSpeed wrote in post #19050140
I see nothing substantial really newly announced. Canon already showed those specs in a prior announcement to quell some of the rumors that were wrongly being thrown around. I think the only really new piece of info are the card slot types and a bit more about video. We still don't really know price, resolution, file and image sizes, etc.

I'd consider the confirmation CFExpress as pretty substantial. Given Canon's history of missing the mark on this area, that new card format is the right move - given the huge performance it brings. Having a UHSII SD slot for the second interface is probably the right decision too, as it allows the use of cheaper (albeit still reasonably performant) cards.

Resolution - I think we can probably take a reasonable guess. If it's going to do uncropped raw 8K video it would make a lot of sense for the sensor to be around the 8K UHD horizontal resolution of 7680 pixels; otherwise they'll have to be resampling the sensor data which would be pretty power hungry at that sort of resolution.

If it can do 7680x4320 UHD video (a 16:9 crop from a 3:2 sensor) then at 3:2 the vertical resolution would be 5120 pixels.

7680x5120 = 39MP; which seems like a realistic ballpark. Maybe it'll have a few more MP and the video will be cropped ever so slightly (extra pixels for potential software based video stabilisation), but ~39MP would be my guess.

For file sizes; geeking out a bit, I took the data from the "File Size and Media" section of https://www.the-digital-picture.com …Canon-EOS-5D-Mark-IV.aspx and scaled the file sizes for each ISO by resolution. At ISO 100 it scales almost perfectly with resolution (i.e. twice the MP results in twice the file size). As ISO (and noise) increases, the higher resolution cameras tend to produce bigger files, but it's still broadly predictable. At 39MP then, my guess for the file sizes VS ISO:

ISO	100	200	400	800	16​00	3200	6400	12800	256​00	51200	102400
MB	49.8	50.2	50.8	51.8​	53.4	55.8	58.4	61.6	6​5.9	70.7	76.7

umphotography wrote in post #19050244
So it appears that the R5 will indeed have the 1Dx3 tracking system in it. So I would fully expect this thing will lock like a MO-FO in darker situations. I dont know anyone that has a 1Dx3 that is not impressed with the AF system

This is what canon says:
the EOS R5 will be capable of making Ultra-High-Speed Autofocus calculations to match its immensely powerful High-Speed Shooting capability of 20 fps. Subject detection adopted from the Live View AF tracking system in the EOS-1D X Mark III brings Face, Head and even Eye tracking when People detection is set, providing ease and accuracy when capturing stills or video. Detection of Animals will also be possible for the first time in a Canon camera, effectively tracking the whole body, face, or eye of cats, dogs, or birds for speed and precision.

Wondering what the EV specs are and also wondering if any of the 1Dx3 guys have any issues tracking and locking in dark conditions

Cards are not a big deal. Put a 256GB in the slot and leave it there. Clear it once a month---whats the problem ?? so it costs you $200. Big deal
The other card is stupid cheap

Im more concerned about battery life, type of battery and again, Its got to hit in the dark.

IBIS and current IS lens is a huge huge advantage

On paper it looks pretty darn good...still need more info....and Im in no rush....I want to see this camera perform at receptions and firework exits......Im betting its gonna be great with these 1Dx3 systems being incorporated into the body

If I recall correctly, CDS mentioned that the 1DxIII liveview AF was good, but nowhere near the viewfinder AF. I can't recall if he commented how it (1Dx III liveview AF) performed against the 5D4 through the viewfinder.

Still, words to the effect of "it's got bits of the 1Dx III AF system" is positive.

I'd reserve judgement on how IBIS and EF IS work together until it's reviewed. It's possible there will be some benefit, but I'd be very impressed if they work together as well as RF IS + IBIS.

Choderboy wrote in post #19050401
Olympus and Sony have had IBIS and Lens IS working in conjunction for years. Fuji XT-4 has DIS that works in conjunction with IBIS and OIS!
It was a big discussion point around here but why? Were none of those people aware of Sony and Olympus, or don't they think Canon are capable of doing what other manufacturers can do? Who cares. Canon will be the fourth manufacturer to do this.

The issue is when the IS systems (and the lens mounts) were designed. If the Oly, Sony and Fuji systems were designed with the possibility of IBIS and IS working together then there would be sufficient communication between the body and lens to allow the two systems to work collaboratively (rather than fight one another). It (I hope) would be a certainty that Canon designed the RF mount (or specifically, the extra pins on the RF mount) with the knowledge that more data needs to go between the lens and body. I don't know if the existing EF pins provide enough control for that collaboration to happen. Given that EF was introduced in 1987, I can forgive Canon for not thinking about sensor stabilisation when they designed it

If the best the body can do is know that IS is running (on an EF lens) then it could control IBIS to counter only movement the body knows the lens IS can't do (maybe really high frequency low amplitude movements). If IBIS started to try to correct movement that the lens was picking up they'd just end up fighting one another - hence the need for some good lens<->body communication.

Bianchi wrote in post #19050366
Can you use your EF TC's with your EF lenses, or are you going to have to buy RF-TC's for the 5R using EF lenses ?

We may be able to use either.

The R (and RP) use EF TCs with EF lenses.
Once the EF to RF adapter is attached to camera, any EF lens combination can be mounted.

Now that RF TCs exist, you may be able to mount RF TC to camera, then EF to RF adapter to the RF TC, then EF lens.

sploo wrote in post #19050410
The issue is when the IS systems (and the lens mounts) were designed. If the Oly, Sony and Fuji systems were designed with the possibility of IBIS and IS working together then there would be sufficient communication between the body and lens to allow the two systems to work collaboratively (rather than fight one another). It (I hope) would be a certainty that Canon designed the RF mount (or specifically, the extra pins on the RF mount) with the knowledge that more data needs to go between the lens and body. I don't know if the existing EF pins provide enough control for that collaboration to happen. Given that EF was introduced in 1987, I can forgive Canon for not thinking about sensor stabilisation when they designed it

If the best the body can do is know that IS is running (on an EF lens) then it could control IBIS to counter only movement the body knows the lens IS can't do (maybe really high frequency low amplitude movements). If IBIS started to try to correct movement that the lens was picking up they'd just end up fighting one another - hence the need for some good lens<->body communication.

I trust Canon won't implement a system where IBIS 'fights' OIS.

Canon lenses, except for the 100L macro, have 2 axis stabilisation. IBIS will be 5 axis.
So for starters, lens can operate normally, IBIS can use 3 AXIS instead of 5. Absolutely no need for more communication.

Perfectly Frank wrote in post #19050080
I wonder why. Some kind of marketing strategy? Why not spill the beans all at once?

Must be a helluva system so they are teasing it out so as to create desire and you'll not be overwhelmed with sticker shock when it finally comes out.

Regarding compatibility with optical IS, perhaps the easiest route would be to disable it so the IBIS rules. ??

Choderboy wrote in post #19050401
Olympus and Sony have had IBIS and Lens IS working in conjunction for years. Fuji XT-4 has DIS that works in conjunction with IBIS and OIS!
It was a big discussion point around here but why? Were none of those people aware of Sony and Olympus, or don't they think Canon are capable of doing what other manufacturers can do? Who cares. Canon will be the fourth manufacturer to do this.

Define "this". Do IBIS and lens IS both do full pitch correction at the same time, doubling the number of effective stops? Full yaw at the same time, doubling the number of effective stops?

Most of the negativity you see about the two systems working together comes in response to people "adding" the stops of stability of each system together, which shows a naivety about what image stabilization actually is. It is not a damping, like adding more rocks to a bag hanging from a tripod by using two IS systems. It is an imperfectly-applied opposite and equal reaction to detected motion. You can not correct the same elements of motion at the same time, in two systems. They will uncorrect each other in the opposite direction, and add the two sources of high-frequency error as jitter, for a worse result. The body has to know what the lens IS does, and only complement those corrections, without reproducing any of them.

"Working in conjunction".

https://www.getolympus​.com …ed-300mm-f4-0-is-pro.html
The in-lens stabilization on the M.Zuiko 300mm f4.0 IS PRO lens works in complete harmony with the 5-Axis Image Stabilization in OM-D cameras* to deliver an astounding 6 shutter speed steps of compensation
They even have a pretty picture.

That's not much more than Canon claims for latest lens IS only, but it is more. If people want to add both systems that's their mistake.

I mentioned IBIS using 3 AXIS instead of 5 when using a lens with 2 AXIS stabilisation.
Why keep talking about both systems doing the same thing, at least when replying to me?
Why mention doubling, in reply to me? Did I ever claim doubling?

Why don't we talk for another 100 posts about IBIS fighting Lens IS? Actually, you can, I see no value at all.

Just wondering if they will include at introduction a 64 Gb CFexpress card and reader like they do with the 1DX Mark III

Choderboy wrote in post #19050401
Olympus and Sony have had IBIS and Lens IS working in conjunction for years. Fuji XT-4 has DIS that works in conjunction with IBIS and OIS!
It was a big discussion point around here but why? Were none of those people aware of Sony and Olympus, or don't they think Canon are capable of doing what other manufacturers can do? Who cares. Canon will be the fourth manufacturer to do this.

You missed the point I made.

There is no dispute that Canon will make R system IBIS work cooperatively with RF lens IS, as both were designed from scratch to do so.

The debate is whether and how Canon can make R system IBIS work cooperatively with EF lens IS. The speculation is that R system IBIS may work complementarily with EF lens IS by countering the specific motions it "knows" EF lens IS cannot counter, such as yaw.