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FORUMS General Gear Talk Camera Vs. Camera 
Thread started 17 Dec 2020 (Thursday) 10:43
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7D II or 5D MKIV still worth buying?

 
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Jan 05, 2021 06:07 as a reply to  @ post 19176999 |  #31

Yes my screen is always off until I hit menu or review pictures. It would be nearly impossible to change anything unintentionally while shooting through the viewfinder.


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Jan 05, 2021 10:53 |  #32

colintf wrote in post #19176999 (external link)
can the touch screen facility be switched off?
I fear I might change something accidentally if I cant.
thanks
Colin

Hi Colin

Yes the touch screen facilities can be turned off. I personally don't use them, so I have found that disabling them is a feature available in all cameras with that feature.


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Jan 05, 2021 11:04 |  #33

Tronhard wrote in post #19177127 (external link)
Hi Colin

Yes the touch screen facilities can be turned off. I personally don't use them, so I have found that disabling them is a feature available in all cameras with that feature.

Many thanks for the info Trevor!




  
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Jan 05, 2021 11:14 |  #34

Jake, Trevor, what AF tracking settings do you use for BIF? Lovely shots, by the way.


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Jan 05, 2021 11:27 |  #35

Scrumhalf wrote in post #19177139 (external link)
.
Jake, Trevor, what AF tracking settings do you use for BIF? Lovely shots, by the way.
.

.
I am interested in knowing that, too.

A couple weeks ago I was shooting ducks in flight with my huge Sigmonster, a 300-800mm zoom that has very big, heavy lens elements. . My 5D4 was absolutely horrible at focusing quickly and tracking accurately - like I could only get a duck in focus about 1 time out of every 10 attempts.

My friend suggested that I use my 1D4 instead. I was doubtful, but gave it a try after the 5D4 frustrated me to tears. . Low and behold, the 1D4 - a 10 year old body - focused much more quickly than the 5D4, and tracked with much greater precision. . In fact, I could get a duck in focus 7 or 8 times out of every 10 attempts!

So that has had me wondering if there are settings in my 5D4 that I could adjust to get it to perform just as good as the 1D4 performed, if not better. . Or is it just that the hugely robust battery of the 1D4 is much more capable of moving those big heavy lens elements around quickly?

.


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CyberDyneSystems
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Jan 05, 2021 12:05 |  #36

Scrumhalf wrote in post #19177139 (external link)
Jake, Trevor, what AF tracking settings do you use for BIF? Lovely shots, by the way.

Like all my Canon EOS since post 1D3,. I just open the box and shoot. So I believe that means Case 1.

Then it's a matter of using either single AF point with expansion, or what we used to call "Ring of fire" on rare occasions, also part of my "hail Mary" set up for the * button.

when i shot Gannets last time, All AF points/Ring of Fire was perfect for large subjects and no background to confuse it. The Kingfishers were definitely using my default single point with expansion enabled. How much expansion does tend to vary from situation to situation, for the Kingfishers I would imagine it was as much expansion as the 5D4 allows.


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CyberDyneSystems
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Jan 05, 2021 12:10 |  #37

Tom Reichner wrote in post #19177142 (external link)
.
I am interested in knowing that, too.

A couple weeks ago I was shooting ducks in flight with my huge Sigmonster, a 300-800mm zoom that has very big, heavy lens elements. . My 5D4 was absolutely horrible at focusing quickly and tracking accurately - like I could only get a duck in focus about 1 time out of every 10 attempts.

My friend suggested that I use my 1D4 instead. I was doubtful, but gave it a try after the 5D4 frustrated me to tears. . Low and behold, the 1D4 - a 10 year old body - focused much more quickly than the 5D4, and tracked with much greater precision. . In fact, I could get a duck in focus 7 or 8 times out of every 10 attempts!

So that has had me wondering if there are settings in my 5D4 that I could adjust to get it to perform just as good as the 1D4 performed, if not better. . Or is it just that the hugely robust battery of the 1D4 is much more capable of moving those big heavy lens elements around quickly?

.

Curious. I shot the 5D4 and 1D4 literally side by side in Africa the last time I went, (also had the 7D2 welded to the 100-400mmII)
I preferred the 5D4 every time. Now I am going to double check my 5D4 settings.. but i am pretty sure I'm in Case 1.

That said, I've not had much chance to really use the SIGMONSTER again, but I recall I parted with it partly due to the fat that I was almost incapable of getting it to work on BIF. This was back when I was shooting 1D Mark II (NOT X) On the EF 500mm, the 1DII was a dream, on the SIGMONSTER my hit rate plummeted, largely due to the fact that it's just to heavy to point hand held, and it takes about two hours for all that glass to move from one end to the other while focusing!

There is a lot of talk about the 1D battery, and moving large amounts of glass, .. I don't have any firm confirmation of that being a factor, but it certainly would explain this particular situation.


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Jan 05, 2021 12:13 |  #38

Yes, Case 1 on my 5D4.
Next page, AI Servo 1st image priotity "equal" 2nd priority, 0

3rd page One shot AF release priority "focus"

Page 4
I have iTR and face priority on.


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Jan 05, 2021 12:27 |  #39

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #19177164 (external link)
.
Like all my Canon EOS since post 1D3,. I just open the box and shoot. So I believe that means Case 1.
.

.
That's exactly what I do. . I have never been one to read manuals, go thru menus, watch tutorials, figure things out, etc. . I don't enjoy having to focus and concentrate like that.

Yet, it does surprise me that my 10 year old 1D Mark 4 performs so much better than my 5D Mark 4, inasmuch as AF tracking fast birds with a 3rd party lens is concerned. . I thought the 5D4 AF system was supposed to be better than the old 1D4 AF system. . So that's why I suspect that maybe the AF settings are just screwed up on mine.

Jake, I know you just re-acquired the Sigmonster. . I would be interested in knowing how your 5D4 and your Sigmonster work for you with birds in flight - fast, erratic, challenging birds, like ducks in full flight ... not big, steadily moving targets like Geese or Gannets.

.


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Jan 05, 2021 12:32 |  #40

I keep thinking the 5DIV will drop a bit in price with the R5/R6 out there. Doesn't seem to be yet. Although, I don't know what it's price was when it was released.




  
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Jan 05, 2021 12:33 |  #41

Just a little point to remind, when Trevor mentions the 7D2's number of AF points (65) vs. the 5D4 (61) and how many are cross type, etc. and Tom is getting better results with the old 1D4 vs. 5D4, those 5D4 specs are the same as the AF in the 1DX MarkII.

No one is saying the 7D2 AF is superior to the 1DX MarkII because it has 4 more AF points, or more of them are cross type. So I am not at all sure that is any way to judge a bodies AF capabilities, regardless of what the comparison web sites say.
https://cameradecision​.com …I-vs-Canon-EOS-7D-Mark-II (external link)
(note they also erroneously give the nod to the 7D2's UHSI SD card as faster than the 1DXII's C-Fast! lol)
Again, if based solely on the specs, the 7D2 would "win" on those comparison sights vs. the 1DXII. that said, I absolutely believe that Trevor has better luck with his 7D2, and Tom with his 1D4.

I suspect in most of these cases, it is just a matter of which bodies we are more familiar and comfortable. There are aspects of functionality that are incontrovertible, but there are very subjective feelings based on experience. Maybe I shot the 7D2 in more difficult circumstances more often than the 5D4, so therefore I have better feeling for the 5D4, and vice versa. Lens could have a huge effect on our different experiences.
Such specific shooting situations could also color other users in the opposite direction. One bad lighting day could sour your feelings with a body.

Again the 7D2 and 5D4 at least are so close Id call it a virtual tie, with the tie breaker again going to the advanced abilities of the 5D4's newer and more capable AF/T-Con capabilities.


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Jan 05, 2021 12:36 |  #42

Tom Reichner wrote in post #19177172 (external link)
.
That's exactly what I do. . I have never been one to read manuals, go thru menus, watch tutorials, figure things out, etc. . I don't enjoy having to focus and concentrate like that.

Yet, it does surprise me that my 10 year old 1D Mark 4 performs so much better than my 5D Mark 4, inasmuch as AF tracking fast birds with a 3rd party lens is concerned. . I thought the 5D4 AF system was supposed to be better than the old 1D4 AF system. . So that's why I suspect that maybe the AF settings are just screwed up on mine.

Jake, I know you just re-acquired the Sigmonster. . I would be interested in knowing how your 5D4 and your Sigmonster work for you with birds in flight - fast, erratic, challenging birds, like ducks in full flight ... not big, steadily moving targets like Geese or Gannets.

.

I may never be able to really test that out Tom, as I don't see me and my bad disk injury ever lifting and pointing that lens again. I'd have to do it on a gimbal, and that right there would = a huge disadvantage for pointing it at fast moving BIF. Plus, I sold my 1D4 about a year ago now.

The more I think about this the more I am thinking your battery theory has to be the reasoning on THAT lens anyway.

from an old discussion with Chuck Westfall of Canon USA (RIP) comparing the then contemporary 1D4 with the 5D3

"There are only two areas where the 1D Mark IV has an edge over the 5D Mark III in terms of AF. They are:

- Lens drive speed: Because of its higher voltage battery, the 1D Mark IV can supply an initial burst of power to select L-series USM telephoto lenses (limited to EF super telephotos) that drives them twice as fast as normal for the first second of operation. The 5D Mark III can't do that because its battery is lower voltage, and also because the camera body is not designed to accept higher voltage even if it was available.

- Frame rate: Obviously, the 1D Mark IV can fire at 10 fps vs a maximum of 6 fps for the 5D Mark III."


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Jan 05, 2021 12:44 |  #43

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #19177181 (external link)
.
I may never be able to really test that out Tom, as I don't see my and my bad disk injury ever lifting and pointing that lens again. I'd have to do it on a gimbal, and that right there would = a huge disadvantage for pointing it at fast moving BIF.

The more I think about this the more I am thinking your battery theory has to be the reasoning on THAT lens anyway.
.

.
I am sorry to hear that your back issues have an adverse affect on your ability to use that lens. . Was I correct in saying that you just re-acquired a Sigmonster, or is my memory errant? . I thought you had said a while back that you bought one recently, because the price was too low to resist. . But maybe I mis-remembered.

I was doing all of my BIF photography in Cali last month with the Sigmonster mounted on a full gimbal. . So were all of the other photographers at the places where I was shooting, a few of whom are accomplished, regularly-published professionals. . One is actually the most successful waterfowl photographer in the world, and he only ever shoots BIF with a tripod and full gimbal. . The only exception at these California BIF venues was my friend Jon who went with me, as he was using a Sony A92 with a tiny little 200-600mm that he easily handheld.


.


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"Fare" and "fair" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one. The proper expression is "moot point", NOT "mute point".

  
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Jan 05, 2021 12:53 |  #44

Tom Reichner wrote in post #19177188 (external link)
.
I am sorry to hear that your back issues have an adverse affect on your ability to use that lens. . Was I correct in saying that you just re-acquired a Sigmonster, or is my memory errant? . I thought you had said a while back that you bought one recently, because the price was too low to resist. . But maybe I mis-remembered.

I was doing all of my BIF photography in Cali last month with the Sigmonster mounted on a full gimbal. . So were all of the other photographers at the places where I was shooting, a few of whom are accomplished, regularly-published professionals. . One is actually the most successful waterfowl photographer in the world, and he only ever shoots BIF with a tripod and full gimbal. . The only exception at these California BIF venues was my friend Jon who went with me, as he was using a Sony A92 with a tiny little 200-600mm that he easily handheld.

.

Yes, I did get one, and have been experimenting with it and the R5,. but it is going to live on my Series 4 tripod and Wimberley when in use! I can get BIF when on a gimbal, but my best results/ keeper rates are hand held.

I can tell you now, vs. the Canon 500mm f/4L IS II, the SIGMONSTER remains VERY SLOW to focus! Regardless of body I use!

What I can do, is compare AF peed vs. a 1DXIII (with it's big battery) and just see if it's noticeably faster to move all that glass.


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Jan 05, 2021 13:03 |  #45

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #19177193 (external link)
.
Yes, I did get one, and have been experimenting with it and the R5,. but it is going to live on my Series 4 tripod and Wimberley when in use! I can get BIF when on a gimbal, but my best results/ keeper rates are hand held.
.

.
I totally get that.

The point I was trying to make was not to say that you, or anyone else, should shoot BIF with a huge lens on a tripod and a full gimbal. . What I am trying to say is that although it may not be right for some people, it shouldn't be dismissed, or considered as an inviable form of BIF photography, because many of the world's top professionals are still shooting BIF this way ..... and the results they are getting are truly world-class.

.

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #19177193 (external link)
.
I can tell you now, vs. the Canon 500mm f/4L IS II, the SIGMONSTER remains VERY SLOW to focus! Regardless of body I use!

What I can do, is compare AF peed vs. a 1DXIII (with it's big battery) and just see if it's noticeably faster to move all that glass.
.

.
I couldn't believe how much better the 1D4 performed on those Pintail and Shoveler fly-by opportunities. . And it was a good test, because for about 4 hours, we had small groups of Pintails and Shovelers flying by at close range about once every minute or so. . So, hundreds of opportunities within a few hours, with the ability to switch from one body to another and back and forth again, right in the midst of the shooting. . The difference between the 1D4 and 5D4 was night and day.


.


"Your" and "you're" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"They're", "their", and "there" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"Fare" and "fair" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one. The proper expression is "moot point", NOT "mute point".

  
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