Canon Wireless Flash

LJ3Jim wrote in post #19204005
There was a problem. For some reason, the cable fires the flash, but the signal to turn the flash off does not get back to the flash. So any photos we take are totally over exposed. I have a 2' Canon cable, and it worked fine but it's not long enough. I tried different flashes, but the 3rd-party cable just didn't work. Canon doesn't seem to make a cable longer than 2', and I didn't want to go 3rd-party again.

What you describe is even an issue for genuine Canon cables! Over a Decade ago, when the 20D30D/40D was the newest Canon, Flashzebra once loaned me the newest Canon v2 cable, to see if it would fix the issue (which you described) that I found both with Canon cable v1 and with a third party cable. Nope, it did not fix the issue!

I blame the tenuous connectivity of the Canon eTTL design, where a less-than-perfection communication between body and flash will cause it (spontaneously) to fire Full Power, rather than the premeasured amount of light in the eTTL preflash computation. (There is no 'quench' in eTTL...the light output of eTTL is a premeasured output command which is issued prior to flash firing with shutter release.)

Glad to hear that the radio trigger worked where the cable did not.

Wilt wrote in post #19204023
I blame the tenuous connectivity of the Canon eTTL design, where a less-than-perfection communication between body and flash will cause it (spontaneously) to fire Full Power, rather than the premeasured amount of light in the eTTL preflash computation. (There is no 'quench' in eTTL...the light output of eTTL is a premeasured output command which is issued prior to flash firing with shutter release.)

Glad to hear that the radio trigger worked where the cable did not.

Thank you for the explanation. It's nice to know how it actually works!

The shiney sensor surface made TTL-like film surface measurements during exposure impossible. So eTTL (and other digital brands' equivalent) resorted to the preflash command, which was then measured for brightness NOT off the sensor, and a predetermined fractional output power command was issued to the flash a moment before the shutter opened.

It would be useful to learn Why the fractional power command is not seen by the flash intermittently, so the Trigger signal by the shutter contacts cause a full power output.

Reasonably because if you lose the communication pin, the system will return to using the fire pin only. And then it's full steam ahead, and only that.

With two 430 EX III-RT, you didn't really need any flash transmitter. You could use one to command the other.

When I read your post it feels like we have stepped back a decade. Most of the cheap aftermarkets are gone or are at least much less prevalent. The 4 remaining standouts right now are Phottix, Yong Nuo, Neewer, and Godox/Flashpoint. All of these seem to have very good track records, but Godox/Flashpoint are my favorites, with 4 flashes, 3 small strobes and a large strobe all working together with a couple different triggers, very seamlessly. I feel that the least risky at this point of the 4 would be the Godox/Flashpoint brands, as they have the largest set of lights on the market when looking at these 4 brands.

What is left out of the aftermarket flashes from years past is very mature and can easlly replace the Canon gear. And all the my flashes and strobes all work together wirelessly even my baby flashes that cost 75 each.

As to the current thread, I would think being in more of a studio setup, I would set up flashes in manual mode and not in ttl mode.

...and Flashpoint brand offers the post-warranty support option of Adorama, whereas all the other brands offer nothing for post-warrant support of their product. And NO ONE, Phottix, Yongnuo, Neewer or Godos nor even Adorama, have any spare parts for the flash units.

Back a few decades, Vivitar and Sigma had sales and service support, while offering things at lower price than the major manufacturers. Our expectations as consumers is so driven by price, that on-going support is no longer an expectation. Now we find flashes with battery packs in custom housings, and you cannot even replace the cells, and we are seeing that sometimes you cannot even buy new replacement battery packs because they are no long made by the original manufacturer.

1) Eventually support ends and parts might be hard to find, even with Canon. It just happens faster with the others.

2) The prices of some of these 3rd party brands are 1/3 that of Canon, which means you can buy 2 of everything (backups, parts) and you are good to go for years with still less outlay of cash.

3) You can always find parts, there is a huge surplus of "as is, for repair" on ebay for everything. When your products die, you list them there and hope to recoup about 10-15% of your initial cost, or you look there to buy something to tear apart and reuse.

4) You either pay now or you pay later, it doesn't really matter in the long, long term (like 10 years + ). It just so happens that if you take care of your gear, and make sure your batteries are charged each year, going with a 3rd party will likely save you more than it will cost you.

5) The only huge negative to this is landfill with electronics... Which happens with all products at some point. You can try to donate to Salvation Army, or Goodwill, but they will take anything that is rough or appears to be non-working and send them to a "recycler" which may or may not recycle anything. You think you are doing good, only to end up with items in a landfill anyways.

Finally, let's say I have a Canon speedlite that I paid 2-3x more than an aftermarket, because "someone" pointed out how it might be better to get a name brand due to parts and service. It dies at month 13 of ownership. But hey, I can send it into Canon for repair. When I am done shipping and paying Canon service fees, I will have likely paid more for that than it would have cost me to buy a new aftermarket. Buying Canon isn't a recipe EVER for saving money in the long run, it will only cost you and it will always cost MORE, unless these aftermarket units only last a year or two, which isn't the case at all.

We live in a disposable world due to costs. Humans cost more and more, which means service and stocking parts costs more than just a new unit coming off an assembly line. Canon recognizes this and have already closed service centers. That model will not change.

Two sides of the same coin. It is up to the buyer to decide which approach to take, based upon personal values of what is importat. No right, no wrong...simply 'different'.

I mention the downsides simply because I have encounted angry posts by folks who suddeny discover the implications of their choice.

Makes sense to point it out, but those folks you read about are obviously of the mindset that they have to repair the units, when they already saved enough up front, in most cases, to buy another. Things like flashes are usually cheap unless you are spending $600+ for a speedlite. Chances are most of the stories you have heard relate to big strobes.

OTOH, to buy a flash in 2014/2015, have it continue to work just fine, but not be able to buy replacement battery for it...frustrating to have to throw away a perfectly fine flash simply because the rechargeable cells reached end of useful life, yet not be able to find replacement.

Just buy the AA versions... I don't buy into all the rechargable packs versions, especially considering the continued restrictions on shipping and traveling with liion packs.

And packs can be opened and new cells put in. There are places that even do this for you. In any case, the five year old godox flashes that take packs still have new packs out there even today, for $40. So had I bought the v860II, I still would be fine. If not, I buy a new flash for $180, and sell my old one for $50 on eBay or Amazon (for those folks that can't find parts for their broken flashes).

There isn't a use case yet for flashes where buying Canon saves you money in the long run over proven third party flashes. I figure I could always theorize on things like this, or I can live it.

Strobes, OTH maybe... They fall into a different category. I do worry about my AD600 in the future and the replacement battery is so expensive even now.

============

Now if we can get back to wireless, the answer has been given about how to control Canon wireless flashes and what device you have to get to do that.

However, if one is again curious about the other side of the fence, at least with Godox, there are 3 or 4 different transmitter styles, just depends on what you are looking for in a footprint or capability. Also, their flashes themselves serve as RF transmitters to the other flashes. So you can have a flash on your camera, and still control groups/channels to other flashes at the same time, which is nice. I usually do not have that configuration, I will just mount flashes on various stands when needed and use either the Xpro or the newest RF transmitter they came out with, which has a simplified design. These also then work with my 3 AD200 strobes and my AD600, all seamlessly. It has really freed me up to be creative in how to design out a photo area, no cords on anything, and then set up usually 3 groups.

These little flashes are pretty amazing for the price. $70 and you get a full RF system (transmitter embedded) with these. I use these for a dual macro flash setup, more than enough light for that. I also use it as rim lighting behind my subjects, using very small portable manfrotto stands.

https://www.bhphotovid​eo.com …rorless_camera_​flash.html

It's big brother (which I replaced my 580II with) is $100 and has the same capabilities.

https://www.bhphotovid​eo.com …ttl_camera_spee​dlite.html

I have used the Xpro C in the past, but have moved to the 2nd gen transmitter from the old X1T.

https://www.bhphotovid​eo.com …_x2tc_x2_2_4_gh​z_ttl.html

So for $230, you have two different powered flashes and a transmitter with full TTL and support in the Canon menu system.

I have 2 large flashes, 2 small flashes, 3 AD200 strobes and 1 AD600, for probably about $1500 in lighting and RF xmit expenses. I started with the AD360 units, but then I had to get a receiver later (AD360 version 1, no RF capabilities), and didn't like the battery system so much. Godox has streamlined their system so much since then. The AD200 units are some of the most versatile lights yet to date by anyone. Different flash heads, a Bowens dual unit mount to get a 400 strobe, cheap replacement batteries (price of an LP-E6), etc... pretty neat.

Canon has no system yet that can rival this ecosystem, and certainly not even close to the price points here. As long as you are pretty diligent in your purchases (get these on sale from time to time, keep batteries charged annually, every other year maybe go buy a new battery while they are out there, like you would with camera batteries, etc), you will save a substantial amount of money across 10 years.

Tiberius wrote in post #19095906
A quick question for everyone for a tutorial I am writing.

How many of you use the wireless flash system that Canon has built into their speedlites? And for those of you who do, what devices do you use as your controller and receiver?

I bought into the Canon 600 EX -RT, ST-E3 RT system back in the spring of 2012 when first introduced. One of the first in our area to do so. Today I have 5 600 Speedlites and 2 ST-E3 RT Transmitters. Almost nine years of work and no...... don’t say it....
no service needed, just reliability when it matters most, on the job.
The feature of the 600 system is Radio Frequency. So many photographers I know have a 600 but moan about the cost of the Canon Transmitter. Why buy the 600 and not utilize what separates from the competition years ago and even to this day?
No need for third party Wired devices to fail at the wrong time. Broken, lost or forgotten cables, extra batteries for the third party Pocket Wizards from ‘12 and newer wired devises of today.
And a few more will be added soon, the Canon branded for me.

Same here, love having no cords of any kind, not worrying about rechargeable packs, etc.... Just put the stands up, lights on, diffusers added, and go shoot!

TeamSpeed wrote in post #19206706
Just buy the AA versions... I don't buy into all the rechargable packs versions, especially considering the continued restrictions on shipping and traveling with liion packs.

The flash in question, which was brand new on the market in 2014, was a battery powered MONOLIGHT...there ARE no AA (or other 'standard battery') versions of the light. Cells come housed within a custom housing that fits withing the exterior shell of the light. You cannot now buy replacement battery packs, you cannot open the existing housing of the pack to replace cells. That the rechargeable cells lasted this long is laudable, but now the monolight is made useless by virtue of inability to buy a new battery pack with fresh fully capacity cells. BTW, the unit in question was sold under two brand names...the manufacturer who is highly respected and the retailer (also highly respected) private label

I don't know what speedlite flash you are talking about, I think I must have missed a specific model/manufacturer in your replies. I guess you meant vivitar, etc. I have no experiences with those and wouldn't recommend them at all. The original company is gone, those are just brand names purchased by companies in China for name recognition I feel. Just like samyang/rokinon and their vivitar lenses...

We have much better third party options as of 2015 and onwards. All of my 3rd party gear has worked for 6 years and counting, not any issue, batteries, operations, nothing and they are all integrated with each other all the way up to a 600w strobe. Inexpensive, wireless control, and free from wires/external packs/cords, the way I roll...

It feels like in these discussions, one has to find the absolute worst case and then present it as a common situation as a counter to suggestions made by others any time 3rd party options come up. Real world experiences show these situations to not be a prevalent condition.

I think it is enough to say:

"Certain reputable 3rd party products can be just as reliable, sometimes better in some regards, but may be limited in long-term support in both service and parts and batteries. However the cost savings right up front may likely make up for those headaches, should they come to fruition. If that worries someone, they can buy Canon gear, and spend that money up front to have Canon support and service for a long period of time after. Just be aware that service costs later and up front higher product costs may result in a higher long-term cost, but comes with peace of mind likely not available with 3rd party companies."

Now back the wireless channel!