600ex RT speedlite vs studio strobes

so i keep going back and forth with my thoughts on "studio" lighting.

my studio consists of moving some furniture out of the way in the living room and a) setting up my backdrop stands and muslins or b) using the unobstructed white corner as v-flats although Ive yet to actually USE them as that...

i thought i wanted to go with the speedlites and had 5 of them at one time. i found some inexpensive 160ws monolights that i thought i wanted to buy (i have appropriate stands and modifiers) so i sold off a couple of the 600s at a small loss and never did buy the monolights...

i should pickup at least one more 600 for my 60" shoot through umbrella but i see the Godox SK300II and MS300 lights are quite inexpensive and i could buy them at a 2:1 ratio to more 600s...

does anyone have any experience with either of these lights? theyre rated at 300ws and GN 190'. the SK has wireless (which i REALLY LIKE with the 600ex-RT) but i could pick up any other manner of triggers...

https://www.bhphotovid​eo.com …s/1341783-REG_1484618-REG

Hi,

If you're shooting indoors the mono strobes are a better way to go overall. As long as you're ok with the trigger system and manually setting the output and not having TTL and all that. The strobe, regardless of its output rating, will fill a large 60" modifier better than your speedlight which uses a fresnel (usually) magnifier to collimate a light cone. The strobe's bulb or tube system will have a much wider dispersion of light so it will fill a large modifier much better, with a single light.

The inexpensive 160W~300W $80~150 strobes, by Godox, are great. They work well. Good recycle time. Good output. Pretty good consistency and temperature for non-critical application.

Speedlites are super convenient and portable. But if you're doing indoor studio you likely will appreciate having strobes that fill a large modifier and don't use batteries so that you can just shoot without prepping batteries and stuff. And again, emphasis on large modifiers. Also, strobes have modeling lights which is great for seeing light fall on subject which speedlites lack.

I switched to a few similar indoor strobes for my purpose, similar, indoor portrait. I use a 600Ws for my primary in a very large modifier and then I use 160Ws strobes for my ancillary lights. And they trigger optically off my primary which triggers wirelessly (radio) from my camera. If I were re-doing it, I would get the strobes with R2 receivers to avoid needing optical, as they're awesome and inexpensive.

Similar to what you're looking at, R2 family, Flashpoint for service purposes:

https://www.adorama.co​m/fplfbl300b.html

https://www.adorama.co​m/fplfs300b.html

Very best,

Ltdave.
As you may know I have been using the Canon 600 EX-RT System since first introduced in 2012. Using 5 600’s and 2 ST-E3 RT’s in my workflow, I have been looking to incorporate a Studio Strobe, not to replace the 600 system, but to work with the. System. I am going to purchase the Westcott FJ 400 and an FJ 200 in the near future as it will work in the Canon 600 system seamlessly with the ST-E3 RT Transmitter and the Westcott transmitter if I care to purchase. I had the opportunity to hands on, and test drive this system with my ST-E3 RT and 600 Speedlite at PhotoPlus in 2019.
Filling a Westcott 7ft Umbrella with 3 Canon 600’s, about 50 Watts at Full Power, I could use one FJ400 and have up to 400 W Full Power, or the smaller lighter FJ 200 at 200 W Full Power. Then I could use one 600 EX-RT in a Westcott Apollo Strip with Grid for an edge light. The examples are too many to list here.
Traveling by Air to Europe my ThinkTank Airport International will allow 2 Canon 600 EX-RT and 2 ST-E3 RT Transmitters in their dedicated slots in bag along with 2 Gripped 5D Mark III’s and Greek Trilogy, the 16-35 f/4 L IS, 24-70 f/4 L IS, 70-200 f/4 L IS Mark II and 24 TS-E Tilt/Shift.
Location and Logistics would determine which to bring along.
Our Primary home I can shoot Headshots exactly like you can...ln the Living Room by moving the furniture around exactly like you Dave.
Our second Home two car garage now has an Impact Wall Mounted 3 Roll Paper Holder installed with Gray, White and Black 107” Rolls and can decide which color to roll down like a movie screen of my choice of color.
This has evolved exactly like you are doing currently.
And Westcott has support if needed with service which is key.
As of today, this is the best option to buy to work WITH your Canon 600’s with full Radio Communication.
It not an either or..... but both...

AD200's and a trigger all the way. Keep one speedlite for events and such. If you get a Godox/Flashpoint speedlite you can trigger with the AD200's and use as a third light.

Dave,

Quick summary
Monolights

• Requires AC, unless battery back powered
  
• Modelling light allows the photographer to SEE how the lighting complements the sitter's face to be advantage, not accentuating features that might detract
  
• Softboxes provide softer illumination, white reflector heads provide harder lighting
  
• Bare tube best used with softbox
  
• Fan heads allow modelling lights and frequent high power flashes, without fear of overheating
  
• not as transportable as speedlights
  
• generally not xTTL compatible; manual power control
  

• Portable, requires no AC
  
• Lightweight and compact...multiple heads minimal space to store/transport
  
• generally xTTL compatible; manual power control
  
• more limited softbox size )than studiio flash) for attachment flash head
  
• forward facing flash head creates 'hot spots' in larger softboxes (see illustration)
  
• 'modelling light' (flashtube) feature not as beneficial as modelling lights on studio flash...
  
• 'modelling light' (flashtube) consumes battery power, and can overheat flash head
  
• no fan cooling to remove heat buildup in head from rapid shooting
  
  

IMAGE LINK: https://app.photobucke​t.com …b5-944146080a2b?mode=zoom

thank you everyone for your thoughts. very informative and for once (based on your replies? or im just awake enough) im not more confused than i was before i posted...

i really cant justify the cost of the Westcotts. not for what im doing now and foresee in the near future...

is a 600ws light really necessary for my 5' umbrella? ive had good results with the 3-600s and theyve still been only at 1/4 (or less than 1/2) power. i would think i could use a 300ws without much effort...

i really could use a 1-1 or SMALL GROUP hands on class to learn more about studio lighting. ive tried doing things like i see in the yt videos but my results (even after editing) dont look like most of the examples people get, OOC...

im looking at the most economical path to lighting...

thank you all again!

i forgot to mention, i dont THINK, ive ever used E-TTL on the speedlites in a "studio" setting. ive shot everything in manual...

maybe i could get EASIER results if i did, but i was under the impression that using M would give me better control over the lights...

we used to shoot official officer portraits in a studio in the Air Force but i honestly can not for the life of me, remember how we set up the lighting ratio or how we controlled them, other than a sync cord to at least one of them...

I use Speedlights and strobes interchangeably, often at the same time. Only to address special requirements (portability, recycle time, power, bare bulb) will I deploy one type specifically. A top-of-the-line Canon or Nikon flash can fill an entire room at ISO 100, f/5.6 with correctly directed wall bounce. Cheap deals for name brand units of both types can be found if you accept older models in used condition. My lighting selection is Profoto, Canon Speedlite, Nikon Speedlight, all connected with PW radio triggers. Of course, I set energy manually.

Dave,
Quick fundamentals of lighting

1. if you raio the lights 3:1, that is 'low contrast subject lighiting'
   
2. if you raio the lights 5:1, that is 'low contrast subject lighiting'
   
3. if you raio the lights 7:1, that is 'low contrast subjectlighiting'
   

4. you get 3:1 (low subject contrast) subject lighting with the Main 1EV brighter than the Fill
   
5. you get 5:1 (moderate contrast) subject lighting with the Main 2EV brighter than the Fill
   
6. you get 7:1 (high subject contrast) subject lighting with the Main 3EV brighter than the Fill
   

Ltdave wrote in post #19218362
so i keep going back and forth with my thoughts on "studio" lighting.

my studio consists of moving some furniture out of the way in the living room and a) setting up my backdrop stands and muslins or b) using the unobstructed white corner as v-flats although Ive yet to actually USE them as that...

i thought i wanted to go with the speedlites and had 5 of them at one time. i found some inexpensive 160ws monolights that i thought i wanted to buy (i have appropriate stands and modifiers) so i sold off a couple of the 600s at a small loss and never did buy the monolights...

i should pickup at least one more 600 for my 60" shoot through umbrella but i see the Godox SK300II and MS300 lights are quite inexpensive and i could buy them at a 2:1 ratio to more 600s...

does anyone have any experience with either of these lights? theyre rated at 300ws and GN 190'. the SK has wireless (which i REALLY LIKE with the 600ex-RT) but i could pick up any other manner of triggers...

https://www.bhphotovid​eo.com …s/1341783-REG_1484618-REG

Hmm, I've never seen those Godox units before, but 300ws should be plenty indoors. I'd imagine being Godox it should be triggered by the same triggers as the AD line of strobes. I used to use Alien Bees which weren't much more powerful than that, and I rarely used them at full power.
.
I've personally moved to Godox over the past few years, first with the AD360, then the V1, and then the AD400. For what I use them for they work great indoors or out. I haven't touched my 600exRT since buying a V1.

In making your choice between the 600EX RT or one of the listed Godox flashes, you should be aprised of the deceiving nature of ANY zoom head flash claims about Guide Number. If you zoom the Canon 600EX RT to 28mm FL coverage angle, it has a Guide Number of 98, whereas the Godox 300SK has a Guide Number 190. Put another way, shooting a group with 28mm lens, the Godox gives you approx f/8 at 24', while the Canon gives you f/4 at the same distance (both shooting ISO 100)

One caution though, Godox does not specify if the unit delivers GN190 with an optional reflector, vs. with bare tube. Godox provides no information about coverage angle of any of its reflectors, making it difficult to compare against other flash units.
So the above claim of f/8 at 24' might be an overstated claim, especially when used inside a softbox in the bare tube configuration! Maybe an owner could elucidate their measured performance in what circumstance.

Ltdave wrote in post #19218362
... i see the Godox SK300II and MS300 lights are quite inexpensive and i could buy them at a 2:1 ratio to more 600s...

does anyone have any experience with either of these lights? theyre rated at 300ws and GN 190'. the SK has wireless (which i REALLY LIKE with the 600ex-RT) but i could pick up any other manner of triggers...

I don't use monolights, but I'm really good at interpreting specs. The MS300 has the same built-in wireless the SK300 II does. And it goes down to 1/32 power, while the SK300 II only goes to 1/16 power. The MS is basically an updated version of the SK II.

I would recommend you consider Godox gear for the studio lighting, if the lower pricetags are a real attraction. And I would point out for the price of a new 600EX II-RT, the AD100, AD200, AD300, AD400, and AD600 Godox options are also available to you, as well as the numerous Godox speedlights, including the $60 TT600 manual, but remote power/group/HSS controllable over Godox radio, $110 TT685-C (roughly equivalent to a 600EX-RT), or the li-on powered $180 V860 II-C, or $260 V1-C round-headed poor-man's Profoto A1.

I will also say that if you get a Godox XPro-C or Flashpoint R2 Pro II-C transmitter, TTL might actually become useful, since both thsoe transmitters have Godox's "TCM" (TTL Convert to Manual) function, which lets you use TTL to set the power level, but then lock in that level in M for fine-tuning or shot-to-shot consistency. And those same transmitters do give you power/group/modeling light control over the manual AC-powered Godox strobes, and TTL/HSS/power/group/mo​deling light control over the AD lights.

If you just want a battery-powered TTL/HSS mini strobe the size of a speedlight that has roughly 3x the light output of a speedlight, the AD200 may be more what you're looking for than an MS300.

Take a look at Flash Havoc's overview of the Godox system to get a sense of the many many options in the system. He's missing a few of the newer options (DP III and MS monolights, AD100, V1. X2T. etc.), but it's a pretty comprehensive picture of the system as a whole.

LTDave,

As a similar shooter to you, I'll weigh in with a quick two cents' worth of input. My input is to buy as much power as possible. When I studio/backdrop shoot, I usually lock in the exposure with manual settings and don't touch them for the rest of the shoot. Mind you, most of my studio shooting is for dances/proms, where it's a bit "assembly line". If you're living room studio shooting, you may do a bit more tweaking due to the group or posing arrangements.

I have a 180WS Orlit (now Godox/Flashpoint, I think) TTL Speedlight that I love and it's currently the only light I use for outdoor shooting. For indoor shoots, I use it in manual mode as a hairlight only.

The other advantage to having a higher power strobe is that you use less capacity and then have much shorter cycle times. I have two 600 WS studio lights, at 20 feet, I use them at about 1/8 power. Recycle time is <1 sec.

Hope that helps, let us know what you end up with.

i have since tweaked the lights to fill the umbrella a bit more. this was right after setting it up and evaluating the angle of zoom and if there was any "tilt" needed on the heads...

this is 3 600ex rts on a mount that has the umbrella shaft right through the middle of them all...

the speedlites were at 1/4 power and i was shooting at 1/200, f4, ISO 200 and getting good results. i dont think im giving up anything shooting like this so i think something along the lines of a 300ws strobe would be fine...

ive since seen a 3x godox kit with stands and umbrellas and transport case for a pretty good (I think) price. about $600-ish. that would give me a lot of lighting (i could have 3 lights going in a session) for a reasonable cost...

i just need to crap or get off the pot, i guess....

I had that triple speedlite bracket and used it alot. Worked well.