R1 rumored to be 100 MP's

Tom Reichner wrote in post #19431183
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Canon's naming convention and corresponding model specifications have every bit as much to do with build quality and battery capacity than they have to do with resolution and frame rate.

When I see people on forums discuss and compare different models, they never seem to give the same weight and importance to build quality (ruggedness) and battery capacity that they give to other things like resolution, sensor quality, etc. . I think this is odd, because build quality is of such utmost importance, and is the main determining factor for many of us when we are making decisions about what camera model to buy.

Choderboy, I didn't see you discuss build quality at all when you were talking about Canon's naming conventions and the differences between the different models and model lines. . If you would include build quality and battery capacity as being just as important as resolution and frame rate, you would see that the models you say "stepped out of line" didn't really step out of line nearly as much as you may think.

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I think what you are saying here has a lot of merit, there is certainly more than technical specs that must be taken into account.

I do think there have been some big steps by some of the bodies. I'm not sure I think the 5D3 represents that but that's the only 5 series I haven't owned so my experience with that is very limited. In my opinion the 5D4 was a huge step up from 5D/5D2 in almost all areas. In fact it's the first body I felt like I could use for action without too terribly much praying involved in getting a decent result. I think the R5 was another huge leap forward, but....

I think the fact that the R series is mirrorless has created another technical distinct that has served to somewhat blur the lines between the series. I think for example, that the R5 is the first time Cyberdyne (Jake) has used a 5 series as his primary body for shooting action. Certainly it is FAR more capable than previous bodies for this use case, and before the R3 it competed in a lot of respects with the 1 series DSLR series...and at a much higher resolution.

I skipped the R and the RP. I think these were stop gap bodies until they had the more traditional series bodies ready for release. I do think Canon misjudged the acceleration of the mirrorless body age and were behind. I also think they did some market testing here (as in the touch bar that we may not see again) We will see, but I don't think you will see either of these names continue in future releases.

We are starting to see a more clear picture of their naming conventions now, and it matches up rather well with the conventions they used for their DSLR product lines (albeit we didn't see a 3 series DSLR). 1,3,5,6,7 (where crop starts).

It's all speculation at this point, but I think the stars line up this way.

Tom Reichner wrote in post #19431183
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When I see people on forums discuss and compare different models, they never seem to give the same weight and importance to build quality (ruggedness) and battery capacity that they give to other things like resolution, sensor quality, etc. . I think this is odd, because build quality is of such utmost importance, and is the main determining factor for many of us when we are making decisions about what camera model to buy.
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I have no interest at all in build quality and consider it a useless property. I have never worn a camera body out. For me, they are making the cheapest ones too robust. Once I wrecked a lens, though, through a bit of drizzle, and it was an L lens.

Release month of 1-Series bodies

- Nov 2021: Canon EOS R3
- Jan 2020: Canon EOS-1D X Mark III
- Apr 2016: Canon EOS-1D X Mark II
- Mar 2012: Canon EOS-1D X
- Dec 2009: Canon EOS-1D Mark IV

dolina wrote in post #19431186
R & RP are pretty much new product lines to cater to lower-end consumer FF that are below the 6-Series. Indicator would be their prevailing price points.

R10 follows the

- 2000 EOS D30
- 2002 EOS D60
- 2003 EOS 10D

R100 will follow

- 2003 EOS 300D
- 2005 EOS 350D
- 2006 EOS 400D

Odds are there will be a R1000 but APS-C bodies will be limited to 4 product lines only. While FF will be up to 9 product lines only. This would mirror Sony's FF & APS-C business strategy.

When people know the product history of Canon for the past 2 decades then odds are you can guess at ~80% or better accuracy what will occur in the next product cycle.

So $6.5k-10k R1 @ 100MP is clickbait rumor mongering. This is more than 4x the R3's 24MP when previous two 1-Series bodies never breached 20MP. So a 2020 1D X Mark III @ 20MP will jump 5x MP to 100MP for the R1?

~$3.9k R5s @ 100MP makes all the sense in the world.

No, the R and Rp were just one off models to bring the mirrorless FF to market.

The R100 will more be the replacement for the M series and not the Rebel line. The R10 is more of a Rebel replacement and isn't some extension of models from 20 years ago. Again, Canon is playing a bit loose with the numbering conventions and we shouldn't really try to draw any real correlations to the legacy models. I really don't quite get why there is so much effort in doing so. There were too many DSLR and mirrorless models Canon has to kill off, and Canon will never bring them all back (1D, 5D4, 5DS/R, 7D, 6D, xxD, xxxD, xxxxD, the oddball rebel 77d and the M series), they have to consolidate and shrink the lineup anyways, so with the R mount, they get to do this.

The R5 is in no way a 5DS or 5D4 replacement. The R was the closest thing to the 5D4, with slower bursts and exactly the same resolution. The R5 only has close to the resolution of the 5DS series but has so many other things going for it over the 5DS.

The R6 is in no way an 6D replacement, it is basically a mini 1DX3 instead, and is so much more than the 6D, including the price.

The R7 is more akin to the 90D, and not the 7D.

In 3-4 years, we won't even be having these discussions, we will simply just talk about the various R models without really mentioning the legacy models.

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TeamSpeed wrote in post #19431428
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In 3-4 years, we won't even be having these discussions, we will simply just talk about the various R models without really mentioning the legacy models.
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I'm not so sure about that. . History is very important to some of us. . I still spend a LOT of time discussing cameras that are from 2005 - 2015. . Many of my real-life photography friends enjoy such talks, as do some folks here on the forum.


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Tom Reichner wrote in post #19431461
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I'm not so sure about that. . History is very important to some of us. . I still spend a LOT of time discussing cameras that are from 2005 - 2015. . Many of my real-life photography friends enjoy such talks, as do some folks here on the forum.

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Please let me clarify. I didn't mean to say that we won't talk about the older models, but we won't be spending alot of time trying to figure out what R? matches to what ?D. "These discussions" = "the discussion in this thread where X = Y"....

We will (or should) go back to the "what are your needs, these models satisfy your needs" types of discussion, whether they include the legacy models or the R models.

For those who believe the rumor sites...

EOS RP Mark II

- http://thenewcamera.co​m/tag/canon-eos-r-mark-ii/
- https://www.canonwatch​.com …bet-the-r-mark-ii-though/

EOS R Mark II

- http://thenewcamera.co​m/tag/canon-rp-mark-ii/
- https://www.canoncamer​anews.com/tag/canon-eos-rp-mark-ii/

Canon needs to add ~4 more FF RF bodies to stack up Sony's 9 FF E bodies.

Numerically speaking

- xxD = Rxx
- xxxD = Rxxx
- xxxxD = Rxxxx

Keeping consistent to naming conventions helps Canon personnel, marketers and users know what they are buying.

Canon did this for their transition from film to digital

- 1V = 1D or 1Ds

Do you have any precedence for your counter claim? Why should Canon have fewer RF FF & APS-C bodies than Sony? Sony pretty much defined what are the key use cases are for mirrorless. Nikon and Canon just need to align their body lineup to completely parallel or partially parallel what Sony has.

It is like fast food chain McDonald's opening a branch at a certain intersection, mall or commercial district. #2 player of that area will open a branch across them and vice versa. The pioneering business already put money on the table that there is a market "here" so the followers after them only have to invest material cost to build rather than do costly or even possibly wrong market research.

The improvements made by the 5-Series from 2016 5D Mark IV to 2020 R5 is a function of technological progress. The resolution, fps, memory card and image processor bumps are part of it. Saying the R5 has more in common with a 2015 5Ds is bonkers. Canon regressed the 5s-Series?

TeamSpeed wrote in post #19431428
No, the R and Rp were just one off models to bring the mirrorless FF to market.

The R100 will more be the replacement for the M series and not the Rebel line. The R10 is more of a Rebel replacement and isn't some extension of models from 20 years ago. Again, Canon is playing a bit loose with the numbering conventions and we shouldn't really try to draw any real correlations to the legacy models. I really don't quite get why there is so much effort in doing so. There were too many DSLR and mirrorless models Canon has to kill off, and Canon will never bring them all back (1D, 5D4, 5DS/R, 7D, 6D, xxD, xxxD, xxxxD, the oddball rebel 77d and the M series), they have to consolidate and shrink the lineup anyways, so with the R mount, they get to do this.

The R5 is in no way a 5DS or 5D4 replacement. The R was the closest thing to the 5D4, with slower bursts and exactly the same resolution. The R5 only has close to the resolution of the 5DS series but has so many other things going for it over the 5DS.

The R6 is in no way an 6D replacement, it is basically a mini 1DX3 instead, and is so much more than the 6D, including the price.

The R7 is more akin to the 90D, and not the 7D.

In 3-4 years, we won't even be having these discussions, we will simply just talk about the various R models without really mentioning the legacy models.

The rumors prove my point. If the R8 is some sort of 5D4 replacement, the naming convention doesn't hold as I stated. Canon will just fill in all the R# they can for different models over time, then likely use MKII, MKIII etc for subsequent versions. To come out with R and Rp MKII models, that would seem a) silly and b) very confusing for marketing their brand going forward. We know the R and Rp were introduction R mirrorless models as Canon firmed up their long-term plans.

It will be confusing though even with R# conventions, using rumored models as "fact":

R1, R3, R5, R6, R8, R9 = FF?
R7, R10 = APS-C

Leaving us with R2, and R4...

Additional thoughts:

There isn't enough of a digital camera market to reproduce all the different xxD, xxxD and xxxxD models, and Canon still has to produce something that replaces the M series on top of this. Highly unlikely there will be an R1000, the R7 and R10 serve part of the APS-C plan, then the R100 replaces the M series and I still think there is yet to be announced prosumer version of the R7 (using one of the 2 remaining R# slots).

Also, since the same AF system lives on all of these with just some feature settings and processor differences, it will be ever increasingly difficult to differentiate so many models other than a) resolution, b) burst rate, c) IBIS, d) video and e) sensor type (BSI vs not).

TeamSpeed wrote in post #19431669
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Also, since the same AF system lives on all of these with just some feature settings and processor differences, it will be ever increasingly difficult to differentiate so many models other than a) resolution, b) burst rate, c) IBIS, d) video and e) sensor type (BSI vs not).
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And don't forget that major model differentiation also comes from build quality (ruggedness) and battery capacity. . Along with tracking autofocus, these are the things that distinguish select models as "professional" cameras. . Media agencies that buy hundreds of bodies at one time for their fleet of photographers care a crapton about durability.


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Tom Reichner wrote in post #19431680
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And don't forget that major model differentiation also comes from build quality (ruggedness) and battery capacity. . Along with tracking autofocus, these are the things that distinguish select models as "professional" cameras. . Media agencies that buy hundreds of bodies at one time for their fleet of photographers care a crapton about durability.

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Indeed, and in the case of the R mount bodies, 2 use the LP-E17, 1 uses the LP-E4, and 4 use the LP-E6.

As to build quality, Canon's tolerances and build quality and weather sealing has improved quite a bit, and I suspect very little difference exists between many of the R bodies, with the R3 being the big exception (as expected) at one end, and maybe the RP and R10 at the other end? Just a guess though, based on tear down and discussions from various boards.

TeamSpeed wrote in post #19431669
It will be confusing though even with R# conventions, using rumored models as "fact":

R1, R3, R5, R6, R8, R9 = FF?
R7, R10 = APS-C

Leaving us with R2, and R4...

Additional thoughts:

There isn't enough of a digital camera market to reproduce all the different xxD, xxxD and xxxxD models, and Canon still has to produce something that replaces the M series on top of this. Highly unlikely there will be an R1000, the R7 and R10 serve part of the APS-C plan, then the R100 replaces the M series and I still think there is yet to be announced prosumer version of the R7 (using one of the 2 remaining R# slots).

Also, since the same AF system lives on all of these with just some feature settings and processor differences, it will be ever increasingly difficult to differentiate so many models other than a) resolution, b) burst rate, c) IBIS, d) video and e) sensor type (BSI vs not).

Your product naming conventions has has no precedence with Canon.

Sony has the following

- 9 FF bodies
- 4 APS-C bodies

Canon has the following RF bodies

- 5 FF bodies
- 2 APS-C bodies

So are you implying that you have a better grasp on the ILC market from 2018-onwards than Sony, Canon & Nikon?

I ask as Sony appears to have identified key use cases for those 9 FF bodies & 4 APS-C work for them.

This makes sense as consumer ILC has been largely taken over by iPhones & Androids.

What I am saying is that if McDonald's has a "Big Mac" then #2 player needs to create an equivalent.

If Coca Cola has "Coke" then the #2 needs to create an equivalent.

If Apple has the Macbook Air then #2 has to announce an equivalent to that.

My head hurts!

I can't help but notice the total lack of posts in the R10, and Rp threads.
Contrast that with when the 10D and first Rebel came out, those were the most popular bodies on this forum.

Makes me wonder who they think is going to buy all these additional models.


To me right now there are 4 Canon bodies, R5, R6, R7 and R3,. everything else is totally off my radar.

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #19431814
My head hurts!

I can't help but notice the total lack of posts in the R10, and Rp threads.
Contrast that with when the 10D and first Rebel came out, those were the most popular bodies on this forum.

Makes me wonder who they think is going to buy all these additional models.


To me right now there are 4 Canon bodies, R5, R6, R7 and R3,. everything else is totally off my radar.

Yup, what you said...particularly the last line.

dolina wrote in post #19431811
Your product naming conventions has has no precedence with Canon.

Sony has the following

- 9 FF bodies
- 4 APS-C bodies

Canon has the following RF bodies

- 5 FF bodies
- 2 APS-C bodies

So are you implying that you have a better grasp on the ILC market from 2018-onwards than Sony, Canon & Nikon?

I ask as Sony appears to have identified key use cases for those 9 FF bodies & 4 APS-C work for them.

This makes sense as consumer ILC has been largely taken over by iPhones & Androids.

What I am saying is that if McDonald's has a "Big Mac" then #2 player needs to create an equivalent.

If Coca Cola has "Coke" then the #2 needs to create an equivalent.

If Apple has the Macbook Air then #2 has to announce an equivalent to that.

You cannot compare the entirety of Sony's lineup to Canon, unless you also include ALL of the Canon mirrorless ILC models. You are missing several.

Canon was behind the 8 ball with the R mount, so in the time of the R and RP and M50 release, how many has Sony come out with? Certainly not very many... The market for ILC has diminished greatly over the last 3-5 years, long after Sony made many of their mirrorless.

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #19431814
My head hurts!

I can't help but notice the total lack of posts in the R10, and Rp threads.
Contrast that with when the 10D and first Rebel came out, those were the most popular bodies on this forum.

Makes me wonder who they think is going to buy all these additional models.


To me right now there are 4 Canon bodies, R5, R6, R7 and R3,. everything else is totally off my radar.

Well this is the rumor board, so you have to have all these other wish list cameras in your radar for this board!