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Thread started 21 Jun 2022 (Tuesday) 10:08
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-= Canon EOS R7 owners unite! Post photos and discuss.

 
Archibald
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Post edited 2 months ago by Archibald.
     
Nov 13, 2022 07:39 |  #3346

Lester Wareham wrote in post #19446072 (external link)
Reading last night MS was recommended for flash, EFC was not.

Are you using EFC with flash Archibald?

Yes. It syncs at 1/320 s, which helps to suppress ambient light and reduces ghosting when shooting bugs in sunlight.


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Archibald
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Nov 13, 2022 08:05 |  #3347

John Sheehy wrote in post #19446117 (external link)
Better bokeh only in the corner cases of very fast lenses combined with very fast shutter speeds, like shooting in sunlight at f/1.4. Then, you can get bokeh balls that are clipped at a horizontal line, like a rising moon that has 3/4 of its height above the horizon, and 1/4 still below it.

Right, thanks. I remember now.

I read about shutters when I first got the camera and compared the different methods. There are pros and cons to all of them. MS wears out the shutter - but how likely is this to happen to me? Very unlikely. But it's noisy and there is shutter shock. ES is speedy but gives rolling shutter, an unfortunate combination. I don't need silence and I don't need the extreme frames per sec. EFC eliminates shutter shock. But wait - it can shock the next pic. But I never shoot at conditions where this would be an issue. Similar with the bokeh balls.

Summary - for me, shoot EFC. Review if things change or I start noticing issues in my photos.

Now forget all those details, and make room in my mind for new things to remember.


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Nov 13, 2022 08:08 |  #3348

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Lester ­ Wareham
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Nov 13, 2022 09:57 |  #3349

OK some feedback on the "action list" from Levina and Archibald :-). I would appreciate your feedback on the below:

1. Double check EVF is on smooth: Yes it was.
2. Try EFCS: Did a panning test in the back garden, NB this was very different to trying to track a bird with MS/HSCS so the conclusions validity is only tentative.

a) MS/LSCS was better than MS/HSCS.
b) MS/LSCS seemed similar to EFCS/HSCS.
c) I was surprised how much worse the EVF user experience was with EFCS/HSCS compared to ES/HSCS.
d) Foolishly did not try EFCS/LSCS to see if this was better. (Justification- better half wanted lunch! :lol:).
Levina and Archibald:

i) Are you using the EFCS with HSCS+, HSCS or LSCS?
ii) How do you find the difference between EFCS with HSCS or LSCS?

3. Review of hawk center shots from yesterday. Still ongoing, no images processed yet. ES shots with panning:

a) RS did not cause obvious distortions of bird wings, but these were large birds with relatively slowly moving wings.
b) RS was obvious when a rectangular man-made objects were in the background, as expected. However I would probably discard these for aesthetic reasons anyway.
c) RS was detectable with some natural things like tree truncks but less disturbing. Could possibly recover with some PP tilt but obviously not ideal

.

Thanks Lester.


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Archibald
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Nov 13, 2022 10:49 |  #3350

Lester Wareham wrote in post #19446184 (external link)
OK some feedback on the "action list" from Levina and Archibald :-). I would appreciate your feedback on the below:

1. Double check EVF is on smooth: Yes it was.
2. Try EFCS: Did a panning test in the back garden, NB this was very different to trying to track a bird with MS/HSCS so the conclusions validity is only tentative.

a) MS/LSCS was better than MS/HSCS.
b) MS/LSCS seemed similar to EFCS/HSCS.
c) I was surprised how much worse the EVF user experience was with EFCS/HSCS compared to ES/HSCS.
d) Foolishly did not try EFCS/LSCS to see if this was better. (Justification- better half wanted lunch! :lol:).
Levina and Archibald:

i) Are you using the EFCS with HSCS+, HSCS or LSCS?
ii) How do you find the difference between EFCS with HSCS or LSCS?

3. Review of hawk center shots from yesterday. Still ongoing, no images processed yet. ES shots with panning:

a) RS did not cause obvious distortions of bird wings, but these were large birds with relatively slowly moving wings.
b) RS was obvious when a rectangular man-made objects were in the background, as expected. However I would probably discard these for aesthetic reasons anyway.
c) RS was detectable with some natural things like tree truncks but less disturbing. Could possibly recover with some PP tilt but obviously not ideal

.

Thanks Lester.

Lol, it's not simple, is it?

I'm currently in first curtain and high speed continuous but not high speed+. Not sure if I used HS+ in the past. I don't have much to say about BIF shooting because I have difficulty with it. The user is the weak link in the chain. I have only recently got the 100-500mm. It is obviously a much better tool for BIF (than the 800/11) but I need more experience with it. Still, I'm getting keepers with the rig and am pleased with it.

Most of my experience with the R7 has been shooting bugs. For macro I was generally single shooting with flash at 1/320. The R7 was a replacement for my 90D and together with the impressive RF100mm has worked very well for that. I haven't settled on optimal settings yet for birds.


Canon R5 and R7, assorted Canon lenses, Sony RX100, Pentax Spotmatic F
I'm Ed. C&C always welcome. Picture editing OK. Donate to POTN here
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Levina ­ de ­ Ruijter
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Nov 13, 2022 11:40 |  #3351

Lester Wareham wrote in post #19446184 (external link)
OK some feedback on the "action list" from Levina and Archibald :-). I would appreciate your feedback on the below:

1. Double check EVF is on smooth: Yes it was.
2. Try EFCS: Did a panning test in the back garden, NB this was very different to trying to track a bird with MS/HSCS so the conclusions validity is only tentative.

a) MS/LSCS was better than MS/HSCS.
b) MS/LSCS seemed similar to EFCS/HSCS.
c) I was surprised how much worse the EVF user experience was with EFCS/HSCS compared to ES/HSCS.
d) Foolishly did not try EFCS/LSCS to see if this was better. (Justification- better half wanted lunch! :lol:).
Levina and Archibald:

i) Are you using the EFCS with HSCS+, HSCS or LSCS?
ii) How do you find the difference between EFCS with HSCS or LSCS?

3. Review of hawk center shots from yesterday. Still ongoing, no images processed yet. ES shots with panning:

a) RS did not cause obvious distortions of bird wings, but these were large birds with relatively slowly moving wings.
b) RS was obvious when a rectangular man-made objects were in the background, as expected. However I would probably discard these for aesthetic reasons anyway.
c) RS was detectable with some natural things like tree truncks but less disturbing. Could possibly recover with some PP tilt but obviously not ideal

.

Thanks Lester.

Lester, I have never shot with EFCS so I’m afraid I can’t compare. I will test it out with my R6 tomorrow and report back.

I’m surprised that you found MS with H better than MS with H+. I would think the faster the fps, the shorter the blackout, the smoother the EVF. I am always in H+ when in MS. I will test out MS with just H tomorrow too.

I thought of another setting you might try and that is High-Speed Display, in shooting menu #8. It’s only available when shooting in H, in other drive modes it is greyed out. It’s also not available in ES. IIRC it doubles the frequency of the EVF, making it look smoother when tracking fast moving objects. I shoot either in ES or in MS with H+, both settings where it’s not available and I don’t think it does much anyway. But you never know, can’t hurt to try.


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Nov 13, 2022 12:03 |  #3352

Hooded Merganser.

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Post edited 2 months ago by Archibald.
     
Nov 13, 2022 12:27 |  #3353

Red Squirrel munching on something - pine cone I guess.

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Lester ­ Wareham
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Nov 13, 2022 12:52 |  #3354

Archibald wrote in post #19446198 (external link)
Lol, it's not simple, is it?

I'm currently in first curtain and high speed continuous but not high speed+. Not sure if I used HS+ in the past. I don't have much to say about BIF shooting because I have difficulty with it. The user is the weak link in the chain. I have only recently got the 100-500mm. It is obviously a much better tool for BIF (than the 800/11) but I need more experience with it. Still, I'm getting keepers with the rig and am pleased with it.

Most of my experience with the R7 has been shooting bugs. For macro I was generally single shooting with flash at 1/320. The R7 was a replacement for my 90D and together with the impressive RF100mm has worked very well for that. I haven't settled on optimal settings yet for birds.

You might want to give ES a go for BIF, I think unless it is a small bird flapping it wings fast or quick panning with upright linear features it will be a lot easier.


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Lester ­ Wareham
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Post edited 2 months ago by Lester Wareham. (2 edits in all)
     
Nov 13, 2022 13:06 |  #3355

Levina de Ruijter wrote in post #19446216 (external link)
....
I’m surprised that you found MS with H better than MS with H+. I would think the faster the fps, the shorter the blackout, the smoother the EVF. I am always in H+ when in MS. I will test out MS with just H tomorrow too. ...

I think all the abreviations cause confussion. It seemed that EFCS HSCS gave the same sort of EVF experience as MS LSCS, I have never used HSCS+, except trying burst mode.

Levina de Ruijter wrote in post #19446216 (external link)
I thought of another setting you might try and that is High-Speed Display, in shooting menu #8. It’s only available when shooting in H, in other drive modes it is greyed out. It’s also not available in ES. IIRC it doubles the frequency of the EVF, making it look smoother when tracking fast moving objects. I shoot either in ES or in MS with H+, both settings where it’s not available and I don’t think it does much anyway. But you never know, can’t hurt to try.

Thanks I will check that out.

Edit: do you mean suppress lower frame rate? That seems to be to do with low light.


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Nov 13, 2022 13:07 |  #3356

Archibald wrote in post #19446223 (external link)
Hooded Merganser.

Excellent reflection.


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Nov 13, 2022 13:08 |  #3357

Lester Wareham wrote in post #19446236 (external link)
You might want to give ES a go for BIF, I think unless it is a small bird flapping it wings fast or quick panning with upright linear features it will be a lot easier.

You also have to consider how large the wing strokes are in the frame, too, as rolling shutter distortion only comes from speed of motion on the sensor, not the actual speed of the object.




  
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Archibald
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Post edited 2 months ago by Archibald.
     
Nov 13, 2022 13:14 |  #3358

Lester Wareham wrote in post #19446236 (external link)
You might want to give ES a go for BIF, I think unless it is a small bird flapping it wings fast or quick panning with upright linear features it will be a lot easier.

Thanks for the suggestion. I will try it. The rolling shutter effect might be small in many situations of interest. Another option is to try it with the R5.

It's mid November now and cold, so BIF opportunities are limited.

John Sheehy wrote in post #19446241 (external link)
You also have to consider how large the wing strokes are in the frame, too, as rolling shutter distortion only comes from speed of motion on the sensor, not the actual speed of the object.

True, but most of my BIF opportunities are surprises, no chance to estimate anything, so one goes with whatever the camera is set for. One sets the camera for what seemed to have worked before or for what somebody online said.


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Levina ­ de ­ Ruijter
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Nov 13, 2022 13:46 |  #3359

Lester Wareham wrote in post #19446239 (external link)
I think all the abreviations cause confussion. It seemed that EFCS HSCS gave the same sort of EVF experience as MS LSCS, I have never used HSCS+, except trying burst mode.

Thanks I will check that out.

Edit: do you mean suppress lower frame rate? That seems to be to do with low light.

No, as far as I know High-Speed Display increases the refresh rate of the EVF itself so it only has an affect on how what you shoot is displayed in the EVF but it doesn't affect your images at all, or exposure etc.

I also seemed to remember that it's on by default when shooting in ES and I looked that up and yes, it's on automatically in ES mode. That's maybe also the reason why the EVF is smoother in ES mode. Whether it does something in H mode, I have no idea.

As to the abbreviations. I had to think real hard what HSCS and LSCS stood for. I just use letters that sort of resemble the icons: H+, H, L, S (with L for Low-speed continuous shooting and S for Single shooting). :-P


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Levina ­ de ­ Ruijter
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Nov 13, 2022 13:50 |  #3360

Lester Wareham wrote in post #19446236 (external link)
You might want to give ES a go for BIF, I think unless it is a small bird flapping it wings fast or quick panning with upright linear features it will be a lot easier.

Agreed. With slow flyers I hardly ever see a rolling shutter effect on the bird itself with the R6 and I don't think I saw any with the R7 in the ten days I shot with it. But this summer I was shooting swifts at high shutter speeds (!) with the R6 and when the bird was in a certain position its edges were zig-zagged. Just little tiny spikes all along the edge of the bird. Pretty weird.


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