Serious Q: Why would someone choose Canon over Nikon knowing...

dolina wrote in post #19483521
Very unlikely. A few years back I read up that half of all smartphone cameras are from them.

That's at least a billion image sensor assemblies annually.

With money from at least a billion image sensors funds R&D for Sony's mirrorless cameras.

That's why were able to leapfrog everyone in the digital camera market.

But their ergonomics and menu system needs a lot of work.

Is Sony still making Nikon's sensors?

RDKirk wrote in post #19483603
Is Sony still making Nikon's sensors?

I think Sony provides image sensors to many digital camera brands that include

- Canon
- Fuji
- Hassleblad
- Leica
- Nikon
- Olympus
- Pentax

The AMOLED display of an iPhone comes from Samsung but to the QA and design targets specified by Apple.

Before people turn violent with this know that your Android or iPhone probably uses a Sony image sensor for their back & front cameras.

Sony makes up 1/2 of all image sensors that goes into any smartphone. Its larger economies of scale allows for more revenue to fund R&D efforts for better image sensor tech.

All the camera brands apply their own software and settings to make it specific to what their brand is known for. Another also is the mount that these image sensors also use.

Sony does not supply sensors for canon ILC cameras. Even that one G7 camera was never confirmed as being a Sony sensor. It was speculated as such, but it isn’t an ILC camera so we don’t really care about it.

TeamSpeed wrote in post #19483643
Sony does not supply sensors for canon ILC cameras. Even that one G7 camera was never confirmed as being a Sony sensor. It was speculated as such, but it isn’t an ILC camera so we don’t really care about it.

https://www.dpreview.c​om …with-canon-powershot-g7-x

Photogs should not be that focused on whether it be a Canon or 3rd party part.

What we should be focused on is was it the best part for the camera you will be using?

If yes, then more power.

It like an iPhone with either an Intel 3G/4G modem or a Qualcomm one. I want the best part so I prefer a Qualcomm even when that company makes Android SoC.

Again, not confirmed what the sensor was in that one camera. It was “speculated”.

Therefore, Sony doesn’t supply (current tense) canon sensors for their cameras! Even if they did, it was (past tense) one model ten years ago for a point and shoot, albeit a higher end P&S, and would be a statistical anomaly that is thrown out.

We do care what sensors, because then it becomes impossible for canon to engineer anything better without waiting on Sony. Might as well just move to the Sony line then…

If I were a Nikon owner, where something like 30 models have Sony sensors, I probably would almost consider switching. I know I would as a canon owner.

TeamSpeed wrote in post #19483650
We do care what sensors, because then it becomes impossible for canon to engineer anything better without waiting on Sony. Might as well just move to the Sony line then…

Using that way of thinking it would be like you saying I should buy a Samsung Galaxy because the AMOLED is sourced from them. Seeming the 5G modem is also from Qualcomm that is shared on that Samsung Galaxy then it is another reason to switch to Android.

Errr.... false equivalence.

Another comparison would be not buying a Sony OLED 4K TV as the OLED dispaly is from LG. Yes, the display is made by LG but the software & industrial design is from LG.

I went with LG not because it is superior but it's the cheapest way to get OLED and any OLED display is far superior than any LCD, QLED or LED display on the market today.

With Sony mirrorless I like their image tech but the body/lens ergonomics and menu layout is more difficult to use than Windows vs Mac or iPhone vs Android.

It was liquidated before the refresh came out.

What is important to me is if the performance and quality of life experience improves.

Sony has more R&D resources than Canon. So no big surprise the image sensor is that good.

Canon ships <3 million image sensors last year? Well Sony probably did approaching 3 billion annually.

Using phones isn’ta good analogy for me, I don’t care about who makes the insides of my phone. My phones in my household, which I manage, are just communications devices first and foremost, for my wife and kids. I go for the best value phone for each, so we have had probably 5 different brands in the past. They get replaced about every two years as well, furthering my lack of interest of the innards.

My cameras and my expectations of them are very wildly different. My use of them, the results I get and share and sell, are very different than a device I talk with, text on, use a browser or apps, etc.

If the sensor was Sony in all my camera gear, I would really consider switching. There wouldn’t be anything at that point that canon would be offering me for the one task of photography. Cost certainly wouldn’t be a consideration, image IQ wouldn’t be a consideration, etc. the only hold up for me would be ergonomics then.

TVs again, are much like phones for us. I would go for the value option vs image, so with the six different devices in our house for TV, all of them are different brands. We have benq, sony, samsung, toshiba, and Emerson, and some no name unit. I don’t use TVs to produce something I share for free or profit, it is just a device that I use to consume media rather than produce.

I have a pretty good feeling that you and I don’t view photography the same way either, if you consider phone and TV in the same classification as camera needs.

TeamSpeed wrote in post #19483643
Sony does not supply sensors for canon ILC cameras. Even that one G7 camera was never confirmed as being a Sony sensor. It was speculated as such, but it isn’t an ILC camera so we don’t really care about it.

It wouldn’t matter at all if Sony did make sensors for Canon. The way the image is processed matters more, along with body ergonomics and lens system. I personally like both Nikon and Canon more than Sony. But of course there is absolutely nothing wrong with Sony.

None of these three really have much that is better than the other, despite what fanboys jump on.

Nikon is no good because of their financials!!
Sony is no good because of their menu system!!
Canon is no good because of their poorer DR (or whatever)!!
Canon, Nikon or Sony cameras are no good because they can’t be submerged in water like a Pentax!!


Sorry, but they are all crazy good and only getting better.

Agreed on all points, but still, I would have to think long and hard about my next camera purchase if canon just used Sony sensors and IQ is the same, AF systems are basically a wash, and costs are in the same ballpark. And Sony isn’t going after RF third party manufacturers like canon, so there is that.

Ergos are about the only thing that would sway my continued canon purchases. This is obviously a very subjective thing, but I doubt I would be the only one thinking this way.

In any case, not sure why Sony was even brought up really? I am sorry dolina even roped me in on that. Canon will be in the sensor business for quite some time due to their other business units needs, so I am good for at least a decade!

It is true there is very little separating the manufacturers at this point, and that is always a good thing.

TeamSpeed wrote in post #19483650
Again, not confirmed what the sensor was in that one camera. It was “speculated”.

Therefore, Sony doesn’t supply (current tense) canon sensors for their cameras! Even if they did, it was (past tense) one model ten years ago for a point and shoot, albeit a higher end P&S, and would be a statistical anomaly that is thrown out.

We do care what sensors, because then it becomes impossible for canon to engineer anything better without waiting on Sony. Might as well just move to the Sony line then…

If I were a Nikon owner, where something like 30 models have Sony sensors, I probably would almost consider switching. I know I would as a canon owner.

That's where I was headed.

dolina wrote in post #19483653
Using that way of thinking it would be like you saying I should buy a Samsung Galaxy because the AMOLED is sourced from them. Seeming the 5G modem is also from Qualcomm that is shared on that Samsung Galaxy then it is another reason to switch to Android.

Errr.... false equivalence.

Another comparison would be not buying a Sony OLED 4K TV as the OLED dispaly is from LG. Yes, the display is made by LG but the software & industrial design is from LG.

I went with LG not because it is superior but it's the cheapest way to get OLED and any OLED display is far superior than any LCD, QLED or LED display on the market today.

With Sony mirrorless I like their image tech but the body/lens ergonomics and menu layout is more difficult to use than Windows vs Mac or iPhone vs Android.

It was liquidated before the refresh came out.

What is important to me is if the performance and quality of life experience improves.

Sony has more R&D resources than Canon. So no big surprise the image sensor is that good.

Canon ships <3 million image sensors last year? Well Sony probably did approaching 3 billion annually.

We're not talking about cell phones, we're talking about mirrorless professional cameras and which manufacturers of such cameras are likely to survive. In that discussion, a manufacturer that makes its own sensors (as well as all its other critical components) is in a stronger position than one that does not.

RDKirk wrote in post #19483685
We're not talking about cell phones, we're talking about mirrorless professional cameras and which manufacturers of such cameras are likely to survive. In that discussion, a manufacturer that makes its own sensors (as well as all its other critical components) is in a stronger position than one that does not.

I'm not sure I agree with this. A manufacturer making it's own as opposed to one making many more for multiple companies will have a harder time competing as there is a huge cost to maintain and upgrade manufacturing lines. This cost will drive the price of their camera higher, or will force them into other cost cutting activities to compete. The company making sensors for a variety of companies will have the advantage of lower cost via scale. That's probably why so many phone manufacturers rely on Sony camera sensors. They can't afford to keep updating their production lines where Sony can.

Canon color science... It's the thing I miss the most from switching to Sony. Canon photos just look better SOOC... even as far back as the 20D where I started with Canon, the color science makes a difference.

gjl711 wrote in post #19483695
I'm not sure I agree with this. A manufacturer making it's own as opposed to one making many more for multiple companies will have a harder time competing as there is a huge cost to maintain and upgrade manufacturing lines. This cost will drive the price of their camera higher, or will force them into other cost cutting activities to compete. The company making sensors for a variety of companies will have the advantage of lower cost via scale. That's probably why so many phone manufacturers rely on Sony camera sensors. They can't afford to keep updating their production lines where Sony can.

We're not talking about one company being the very last man standing. The discussion had come to asking which of two or three companies are likely to remain, with Sony and Canon having been cited by one correspondent.

Canon and Sony both produce virtually all of their own components, while Nikon depends on Sony for sensors. And Canon is overall a significantly larger company than Nikon, perhaps not as large as Sony but certainly capable of self-sustenance and continued competiveness.

i only read through to about 3/4 of the way on page 2 so maybe this has all been hashed out already.

i started photography 'seriously' in 6th grade yearbook in 1976. the advisor had a Canon EXauto which while it has a bizarre lens system (i actually bought a body and 3 lenses for nostalgia) that she let me use and take home and play with. i didnt know much about photography except to focus before shooting. i had all of the film (black and white TriX or PlusX) processed at Kmart...

when i was in HS, i needed a one semester class and they had a photography class. it was set up to use kodak instamatics in 126 film because a) nearly everyone had a camera, b) 126 film in BW was cheap to buy and this a VERY BASIC class mostly on composition and how to process and print. the HS had a defunct newspaper and i knew all of the administrators and my parents were very involved in the school and they let me borrow the schools Canon FTb and a selection of lenses. i was soon making images that were more interesting to me and better exposed. this was in 11th grade...

i wanted camera of my own and i haunted the LCS and pestered the owner (my family knew from someplace) and i had all of the glossy sales brochures from Canon, Nikon, Olympus, Pentax and Nikon. i poured over them and wore the ink off in spots and had different specs all circled and annotated when my parents suggested i talk to our neighbor who was the photo editor of the local Gannett newspaper (also USAToday) who had been doing the job for about 30 years at this point. he said, the newspaper issues him Nikon gear but if were up to him, he'd use Canon because the glass is better (early FD lenses) and things arent nearly as expensive. he also had access to Speed Graphic medium/large format and a Hasselblad 500 through the paper. so for my graduation present (a school year early so i could use it my senior year) my parents bought me a Canon AE-1 with the 50 f1.8 lens...

i used it in college on the newspaper, during a stint with that same Gannett newspaper and worked in a photo shop. the owners were known to spend big and to get "the best available" regardless of cost and i was quite the asset because i was able to talk to customers about Canon that they had no knowledge and had no interest in.

when i went in the Air Force and worked in the photo shop, i took the Nikon kit bag they gave me and slid it back across the counter and said "ill use my Canon gear, thank you. i have everything ill need" (24f2, 35f2, 50f1.8, 85f1.8 and 200f2.8, AE-1 with the TWO FPS winder lol, and an F1-n)

digital? i started with an Olympus 4mp point and shoot and used it for a long time. then moved to a T1i, T2i, 7D, 5D3 and now a 5D4. i have 5 lenses (all L but my 50 f1.4) and ill probably NEVER own a Nikon...


long story short, i like Canon. never been let down. never felt under served by their sensors or glass. im married to the brand