Point and Shoot Cameras are Basically Dead

TeamSpeed wrote in post #19482525
We can go search the internet all day, I find one that says 939k you show 800k, yada. You are wrong, I am wrong… When cat theft numbers hit 1% of registered vehicles, then we can talk, right now we are at best .02%. For now 290,000,000 vehicles, let's say 900K stolen, and state farm reports 43000, lets go up to 60000 to keep you happy, and we have .3% stolen vehicles and .02% in catalytic theft.

You say who cares about vehicle thefts, and I say who cares about catalytic conv thefts? One is much more likely to occur than the other. I am 15x more worried about my 3 vehicles getting stolen.

I am done getting into an internet search contest on who can pull whatever stats from whatever source. I am correct without any needed stats, car thefts are magnitudes more than catalytic thefts and we don’t have that catalytic conv issue to worry about currently in this state.

EV come with a different set of issues to worry about.

State farm is but one company. When you add in the other insurance companies, the number of cat converters stolen becomes hundreds of thousands per year, which approaches the number of cars stolen.
There was no internet search contest, only one of us cited data. Whatever state you live in, has had cat converters stolen. You are entitled to your own opinion, but not to your own facts.

Capn Jack wrote in post #19482535
State farm is but one company. When you add in the other insurance companies, the number of cat converters stolen becomes hundreds of thousands per year, which approaches the number of cars stolen.
There was no internet search contest, only one of us cited data. Whatever state you live in, has had cat converters stolen. You are entitled to your own opinion, but not to your own facts.

When you have that 2022 total number of cats verified by a good source, then you can quote stats and facts. Until then any number you have is just as widely inaccurate as anything I can come up with. That is the issue here, you are trying to take me to task on "facts" but you don't have any, you just have various sites that give numbers, and then you are trying to extrapolate from there.

Sure we had some converters stolen in this state, never said we didn't, but it isn't an issue to worry about. Stolen cars? A different matter entirely. If you like stats, you can add this site to your list for future arguments (https://www.deepsentin​el.com …ar-theft-statistics-2022/). But like anything, statistics aren't really facts, they are estimations depending on the source.

Here is a "fact", 25% of State Farm's numbers came out of one state (California). If I lived in California, then I would worry, but am immensely glad I do not. Given the list of most stolen converters by vehicle, I don't have anything in this list either.

1985-2021 Ford F-Series
1989-2020 Honda Accord
2007-17 Jeep Patriot
1990-2022 Ford Econoline
1999-2021 Chevrolet Silverado
2005-21 Chevrolet Equinox
1997-2020 Honda CR-V
1987-2019 Toyota Camry
2011-17 Chrysler 200
2001-21 Toyota Prius

Regarding EVs, I am even more worried about the unemployment numbers long-term by career certified techs. I have some in my family. We have had this discussion. When the EV move really takes hold and changes the landscape, the numbers of people having to find new areas of employment will be quite large. Granted it will happen over a course of years, but that may not really soften the blow. Phones and EV are market disrupters.

I am less worried about burgers made by robots, the fast food market has gotten "grosser" over the past few years, and I refuse to buy what seems like burgers at those places. Blah For what I pay for 2 meal deals for my wife and I, we can go get a good steak dinner for just a small amount more (like 10%) and split it, and have a much better dining experience and food.

TeamSpeed wrote in post #19482537
When you have that 2022 total number of cats verified by a good source, then you can quote stats and facts. Until then any number you have is just as widely inaccurate as anything I can come up with. That is the issue here, you are trying to take me to task on "facts" but you don't have any, you just have various sites that give numbers, and then you are trying to extrapolate from there.

Sure we had some converters stolen in this state, never said we didn't, but it isn't an issue to worry about. Stolen cars? A different matter entirely.

Here is a "fact", 25% of State Farm's numbers came out of one state (California). If I lived in California, then I would worry, but am immensely glad I do not.

I am even more worried about the unemployment numbers long-term by career certified techs. I have some in my family. We have had this discussion. When the EV move really takes hold and changes the landscape, the numbers of people having to find new areas of employment will be quite large. Granted it will happen over a course of years, but that may not really soften the blow. Phones and EV are market disrupters.

I am less worried about burgers made by robots, the fast food market has gotten "grosser" over the past few years, and I refuse to buy what seems like burgers at those places. Blah

Why isn't State Farm a good source? They know what they have to pay out. Why do you think they are lying? Can you show evidence they are lying?
Can you show the other sources I cited are lies? I picked places all over the midwest.

Reading this prompted me to think about a replacement for my compact, a PowerShot SX210, which is gawd knows how many years old now! It has provided stirling service even though it's got some minor war wounds having been knocked out of my wife's hands by a child on a school field trip. Certainly lasted much better than my previous "compacts" which were well built but suffered the dreaded magenta cast.

I've got a G16, but that's nearly 10 years old now (but only light use) but isn't really a compact. Also a G1X Mk II which is 4 years younger and was amazingly cheaper given its build quality and weight - it weighs a ton! And is even bigger so definitely not a compact! Only bought because the G16 developed a fault prior to a trip to Australia and New Zealand and was a backup/supplement to my DSLR.

Anyway it looks as though I've missed the boat now, well certainly as far as Canon are concerned. Panasonic appear to be the only ones manufacturing decent compacts now.

On the subject of EVs. Yes there are going to be big changes to the vehicle infrastructure, particularly as regards the ICE side of things, even though as said they will still be around for many years to come.

From what I've read I see that we are going to be shafted as regards servicing of EV. Thoughts of it being cheaper as no engine or gearbox seem to be evaporating as manufacturers are quoting services of a similar value! We've owned our two current petrol cars from new for a few years now and apart from annual oil and filter changes and less frequent brake fluid and pollen filter changes they've needed nothing. The latter items will still need doing for an EV but apart from that how can they justify the cost of servicing being the same or similar! And as for overall running costs being cheaper - don't hold your breath!

TBH if you're happy with what you have I'd continue using them. RAW & JPEG's still being recognized by computers sold in 2023.

Electric vehicle vs. ICE vehicle maintenance costs...

1. Electric needs no oil & filter change or air filter (vs. once or twice a year, depending upon ICE manufacturer
   
2. Electric needs no spark plugs (vs. once every 60k or 100k miles, depending upon ICE manufacturer
   
3. Electric has no water pump ever needing replacement (60k-100k typical failure interval)
   

1. Both need changes of brakes, brake fluid, cabin air filter, shock absorbers
   
2. Both need brake pads, tires, wheel alignments, bulbs, windshield wipers
   
3. Both have batteries that get old, the electric has many more of them (greater total cost to replace)
   
4. Both have tire pressure monitors needing replacement about 7-8 year intervals
   

• About a year or two ago, someone on POTN showed me some 'artifact' tha were deliberately put into the photo by the smartphone software...outrageous!
  
• We worry about the 'authenticity' of our photos, and yet Google is currently advertising how easily their photo software removes unwanted people/objects.
  
• A optical zoom lens photo will always be better than digital (pixel-elimination) zoom.
  

TeamSpeed wrote in post #19482537
...
Regarding EVs, I am even more worried about the unemployment numbers long-term by career certified techs. I have some in my family. We have had this discussion. When the EV move really takes hold and changes the landscape, the numbers of people having to find new areas of employment will be quite large. Granted it will happen over a course of years, but that may not really soften the blow. Phones and EV are market disrupters....

I'm wondering if that isn't already happening at least locally. Here in Dallas, EVs seem to have been adopted aggressively. Tesla's use to be tough to spot only a year or so ago. Now you can't come up to a busy interseacion without one ot 3 of the cars being a Tesla. Also seeing a lot of Rivians, the electric Mustangs, Volts, and a couple of others are just starting to show up as well. I think in another year or two, maybe 1/2 of the cars will be electric around here.

Regarding brakes, EV brakes last 2-3x than ICE vehicles, battery packs are good for a decade or more (warranties are good for 8 years so that means life well after that). Also no bulbs, but that is the same as ICE. Not sure how old your cars are that need bulbs… EVs are all LED like many vehicles.

Just clearing up some misconceptions…

No oil, no gas, no power steering fluid, no coolant, no air filters, no transmission fluid, no related filters, no differential fluid, no plugs, no timing chain, etc.

We do have tires and suspension and alignment and cabin filter and wipers/fluid and eventual battery replacement. Brake pads eventually as well but for us not likely until 75-85k miles.

According to BH, both cameras I'm fascinated with are P&S.
One is Leica Q2 witch is about same cost as Canon R series flagmanship and another is Ricoh GR III which is not far from Canon RP.
Oh, and Leica mock off X100V is in sold out for sometime. eBay offers for used are higher than suggested new one price.

Is this still about Point and Shoot Cameras? Because I would love a good P & S as a carry around. For the last year since I upgraded my phone, I shoot most my personal stuff on my phone. And or a most things it works well. I appreciate all the computational capabilities. But there are time I wish it actually took better photos. For example with spring popping everywhere - I tried some flora images the get near macro, but aren't. And focus just wasn't that great. Actually really poor. 25% keeper rate. So I would love something small that was better than ok. But also give me all the meta data my phone does too.... an advanced hobbyist camera that would still fit in a pocket.

https://www.usa.canon.​com …rshot-g7-x-mark-iii-black

Good point and shoot, nice walk around focal range with a stacked sensor.

Croasdail wrote in post #19485641
Is this still about Point and Shoot Cameras? Because I would love a good P & S as a carry around. For the last year since I upgraded my phone, I shoot most my personal stuff on my phone. And or a most things it works well. I appreciate all the computational capabilities. But there are time I wish it actually took better photos. For example with spring popping everywhere - I tried some flora images the get near macro, but aren't. And focus just wasn't that great. Actually really poor. 25% keeper rate. So I would love something small that was better than ok. But also give me all the meta data my phone does too.... an advanced hobbyist camera that would still fit in a pocket.

I recently picked up a SX70 and a Panny ZS80 for the zoom. I was looking for a small carry every day type camera with a long lens. There were not many options. The Panasonic is nice because it's just small enough to be pocket-able and the SX70 has much better image quality and a longer lens and is also very easy to carry. They don't replace my SLRs but are a great addition to them.

Croasdail wrote in post #19485641
Is this still about Point and Shoot Cameras? Because I would love a good P & S as a carry around. For the last year since I upgraded my phone, I shoot most my personal stuff on my phone. And or a most things it works well. I appreciate all the computational capabilities. But there are time I wish it actually took better photos. For example with spring popping everywhere - I tried some flora images the get near macro, but aren't. And focus just wasn't that great. Actually really poor. 25% keeper rate. So I would love something small that was better than ok. But also give me all the meta data my phone does too.... an advanced hobbyist camera that would still fit in a pocket.

I see no sign of spring in Toronto. Have to shovel this white thing today.... )

Ricoh GR series or even GRD III, IV. Fully functional photocamera with dedicated macro mode.

dolina wrote in post #19485546
TBH if you're happy with what you have I'd continue using them. RAW & JPEG's still being recognized by computers sold in 2023.

Yeah, happy with what I've got though I don't use the G16 and G1X that much. Just thinking that if the SX210 gives up the ghost I will struggle to get a replacement, certainly from Canon.

My wife has an I-Phone that takes good photos but I have a cheaper Android phone which does everything I want it to do apart from taking good photos. I just prefer using a camera.

Dmab wrote in post #19441057
What's interesting and contradictory to this is that over the summer when Ive gone shooting in Chicago, etc. I saw more teens using point and shoot cameras, even those one-time use film throwaways, than I've ever seen in the last 10 years. Not sure of why the resurgence, but it was interesting nonetheless to see.

I've noticed that, too.