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FORUMS Photo Sharing & Visual Enjoyment Sports 
Thread started 14 Dec 2006 (Thursday) 10:49
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Indoor Soccer Help

 
nutnhony
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Location: Quincy,IL
     
Dec 14, 2006 10:49 |  #1

I have been shooting outdoor soccer for quite some time and our city has just bulit an indoor soccer arena. I am very frustrated with the output of my pictures. I need some help. I have been shooting in M mode with ISO at 1600 or H depending on lighting. My shuttler speed has been set for 500 I have my Af on ALServo Mode and My aperture at 1.8 I have tried costom white balances to help ajust the diffrence in indoor lighting. And I have tried just using AWB.The lighting is not my problem it is that My shots are not focus and it either focus on the people behind the players or the one closest to the camera or just everything Burry I have my metering mode set on center-weighted average metering I have tried the Evaluative metering to still no good.I took 400 shots last night and I was maybe happy with 20 that is not good percentage. I have tried TV mode and Av mode the sports mode is the worst. My equiment is
Canon 30D
Lenses is Canon EF 85mm 1.8
I have also the 580 Ex Speed lite that I have just bought to try and help because lighting at these speeds is not a problem but to increase my shutter speed to get a frozen shot I will have to turn down my ISO or even my Aperture or if not both right. So I thought if I had the speed lite this would help for the lack of both. Is this right thinking? I haven't tried the speed lite yet thought I would get some advice from experts. I have looked at the speed lite and it seems to be evan harder for me to understand. Please help
I also have
Canon EFS 18-55mm
Canon EF 50mm f1.8
Canon Ef 100 - 400mm f4.5 -5.6 L IS USM
Canons Shoe Cord for Speed Lite

This Picture is one of the 20 good ones out of 400 if I could get atleast 60% of my shots to turn out like this one or evan better would be great.
Any Help


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:rolleyes: Cassy Roth

  
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superdiver
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Dec 14, 2006 13:45 |  #2

I dont think its the lens as much as its the reach of the lens. I LOVE my 85, but it doesnt work for soccer, not enough reach.

Have you checked out Gmans threads. He is the MASTER at shooting, well as far as I can tell, EVERY FREAKING SPORT, but he seems to really shine at soccer....he is the undisputed heavey weight at shooting soccer as far as I am concerned...read his stuff and ask him questions. He will respond and is very generous with his knowledge...


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nutnhony
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Dec 14, 2006 14:29 |  #3

I have read alot of Gmens this is where I have been getting alot of my chooses I have made for the differance between the Indoor Game and the Outdoor. But when I am Taking up to 300 shots and only 20 of them can be posted I am doing something wrong. The action just does not freeze like it did in the outdoor game. I am headed out tonight to try something esle I have read this today to see if this will help with the focus problem I seem to be having. I have read that if I change my AE lock so I can use the * button to focus on the area even when subject moves in the picture. I switch it to AE/AF,no Ae lock in the Custom Function Settings. So now I will just hold down on the * and wait for the shot.I will let you know how it goes.

Thanks for your advise I accept all good and bad.

Cassy


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:rolleyes: Cassy Roth

  
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DaDeuce
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Dec 14, 2006 15:20 |  #4

I'm assuming this is a normal 5 on 5 or 6 on 6 indoor field, correct (about the size of a basketball court)? To get the best pictures take your 85 f 1.8, open it up to 1.8 in AV mode, and turn your ISO up high enough to get atleast 1/250 (preferrably 1/500), and then position yourself up by the glass behind the goalie. You'll have to wait for the action to come to you, but you'll be focusing on the players as they are running at you which should give you some better pictures. Shooting indoor sports is way more difficult than shooting outside, you'll just have to adjust and learn to live with the lower light.

*edit, and the flash won't help if you shooting from behind the glass, it will just reflect of off it.


Gripped Canon 7D with a 70-200mm f/2.8, nifty fifty & a 18-55mm IS, what should I buy next?
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superdiver
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Dec 14, 2006 15:30 |  #5

I would invest in a 70-200 2.8....set ISO at 1600 (or higher if you have the ability) and set the camera on Av...you will need to do PPing and use noiseware most likely...


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nutnhony
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Dec 15, 2006 08:52 |  #6

Yes the field is about the same size as basketball court. And I have tried positioning myself behind the goal so the action can come towards me. The issue I am having their is they have safety type glass all around the outside and the pictures are not as clear in the clarity of the picture I tried using a polarized filter to see if this made it any better then it was just taking it to long to focus for the next shot. I have been known to have sequence shoots that my parents really seem to enjoy. So I have been trying to stay with the same style that everyone seems to enjoy. I have a feeling that for indoor I am just going to have to wait for the last shoot to get the ones that really stand out.

I am using my 85mm f1.8 lens right now and have yet to be happy with most of the shots. I feel the 85mm is giving me to much zoom for the last shot by the time they get up to shot I am entirely to close to the play and then I miss it. I have tried positioning myself above the net , that did not work to much net in the picture. I have place myself in the the box with the players this is where their is no glass but I have a bad angle to shot from. This is where I got the picture shown above. Behind the glass is where I really liked the position but then I have the focus issue. And really bad pictures from this safety glass. I bought the the 50mm f1.8 Lens hoping this would give me this advantage but it was did not do any better. Has anybody been successful in shooting indoor soccer? I really need help The owner of the place has ask if I would submit some photos to be published in the Goal Indoor Magazine. And with what I have done so far I am not happy with. My big Issue is the Focusing problem I am having. I was unable to get their last night to try the new setting I am hoping will help.
Using the * button. To stay focus. I have accepted the fact that I will be unable to track a player and that I will need to just wait for the final shot. But I still would like to get My Camera to take at least up to 3 focus shots in case I have misjudged the play and the direction of the play changes.

And I have been unable to use my monopod in the players box where their is no glass since it is not tall enough to get the camera over the wall.

Buy a Bigger Lens at this time is not an option for me but believe me I have been looking and wishing I could. Please keep the advise coming I will try anything. After this dead line I have been asked to shoot action shots for the Indoor Soccer tournament, in February

Here is a Picture behind the glass I am embarrassed to upload But I just thought I would show everyone what I was dealing with


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sfinkernagel
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Dec 15, 2006 09:26 |  #7

Here's my 2 cents- Yes indoor sports are hard, and while I lust after the 70-200 2.8, I do not own it yet. The 85 1.8 is my best choice, I have just started shooting hockey and indoor soccer as well. The points made earlier about the focal range are good- most of the actions will be too far off, some if it, as you said, will be too close. Your problems with focusing, however, don't seem to have anything to do with the range of the lens. You described your settings extensively, but I could not tell if you are setting the focus spot on the camera with any of those settings (I have the original DREB, there are 7 individual spots I can choose to focus with, I imagine you have better options with your setup). I have found that if I leave all of the focal points active, the camera will often focus on the wrong area- spectators, background players, etc. I get the best results when I use the center spot only for auto focus- I have to be a bit more accurate in my aim, but at least I know where the focus will be. That might help with the "focus on the wrong player" shots, the ones where everything is blurry must be camera shake- 1/500 should stop action adequately. You said the monopod will not reach the proper height- maybe a longer one is in order (you see- size does matter!!!!) Here are some of my shots- http://www.fotofink.sm​ugmug.com (external link)

If you look, you will see that some are good, some not so. Generally, for the indoor sports I am keeping about 1/2 or more of the snaps, so I agree that your ratio of 20 out of 400 indicates a problem.

Good luck!




  
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basroil
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Dec 15, 2006 10:33 |  #8

sfinkernagel wrote in post #2403408 (external link)
If you look, you will see that some are good, some not so. Generally, for the indoor sports I am keeping about 1/2 or more of the snaps, so I agree that your ratio of 20 out of 400 indicates a problem.

Good luck!

all depends on your definition of a keeper... i usually take between 200 and 500 photos for any given game, number of keepers? 5-15, maybe 25 if i've been lucky. how many are in proper focus and exposure? 90% for outdoor shots, 30% for indoor shots (mainly due to XT refusing to cooperate with my 85 1.8 :rolleyes:). worst comes to worst, ask the refs if it's ok to bounce the flash, and shoot it straight at the center of the roof at full power. you might be able to use your 100-400 then (you will have a hard time focusing though)


I don't hate macs or OSX, I hate people and statements that portray them as better than anything else. Macs are A solution, not THE solution. Get a good desktop i7 with Windows 7 and come tell me that sucks for photo or video editing.
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nutnhony
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Dec 15, 2006 12:35 |  #9

Please keep sending advice I like to get some settings from people who have been able to get get indoor Picture.
I really liked your picture on your web site.
What are your setting and why are your color so much more vibrent then the ones I and outputing?

My setting are
85mm f1.8 Lens
Canon 30D body
Image Quality L/F High speed Continuous Shooting
Picture Style Standard ( with parameter +7 on Sharpness)
ISO 1600 or H (depending on lighting)
White Balance (have tried Custom and AWB) these photos done in Custom
AF on AL Servo
AF point on 9 points with it being Center - Weighted meter
Shutter Speed set between 250 - 500 ( with outdoor This is where my settings where diffrent)
These pictures were not taking with this setting but I am tring everything. I have now adjusted my exposure to +2 (to have the filled flash effect and maybe be able to bring down my ISO and bump up my Shutter Speed any thought on that?
and the other new setting I am willing to give a go at is
AE Lock the * button I have changed my settings to AE/AF, no AE Lock ( they say this is a good setting for subject that keep move. Any Thoughts on That ?

The thing I can not understand is I can use the same settings in indoor Basketball and come away with some good shots. What is so diffrent?

I really do not have the money right now to invest in another Lens. i just got done purchasing all my outdoor equiment. So would like to try and firgue out the best settings for the equiment I have.

Keep advice coming. Thanks


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superdiver
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Dec 15, 2006 12:46 |  #10

Do you shoot in RAW, it may be easier to clean them up if they are in RAW? I have a feeling you are already shooting in RAW though...


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nutnhony
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Dec 15, 2006 16:08 |  #11

No I do not shot in raw Please explain how this would help you need to remember if I shot Let say 600 picture in a night. Won't shooting in raw take me even longer to process if I have to clean up every shot?

Never done Raw. In Jpg it takes me a good 1 1/2 to go thourgh now. And that is with mimium clean up. Then if I add having to run all my keeper through neat to clean them up Thats another 1/2 hour. So if I need to learn to do raw I will try but I will need some talking through to get it done.


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Jimmy ­ B.
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Dec 15, 2006 17:20 |  #12

I would like to join this topic, i took my first indoorsoccer shots this past week. At first I was not happy with them,PP helped.
Shooting with a canon 350
70-200/2.8
ISO1600
Shutter priority 1/160
430EX flash(nobody complained)
Besides the above posts ideas, does anyone see anything that could help.
Thanks Jimmy B


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Jimmy ­ B.
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Dec 15, 2006 17:23 |  #13

Have to resize up in a few, sorry
JB


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Jimmy ­ B.
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Dec 15, 2006 17:31 |  #14

here you go!


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superdiver
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Dec 15, 2006 17:49 |  #15

The reason I shoot in RAW is that you can correct the WB, color and contrast and exposure much easier. And if I don't like the way the way I PPed it I can go back and do it again from the original picture. With Jpeg, once you make the changes they are set in stone, no way to get back to the original and recover. That little step makes a HUGE difference in the appearance of the shots IMHO...

I only shoot in RAW and after a long day of basketball or soccer I will also have 1K+ pictures to sift through. I find I had a very good day if I got more then 10% keeper rate though...you may have a much high keeper rate so that make your PPing time much longer...I just sift through my stuff and delete 70-90% of my pictures....


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