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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre General Photography Talk 
Thread started 29 Jun 2007 (Friday) 10:19
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A TAX ON PHOTOGRAPHERS IN NY!

 
danpass
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Jun 29, 2007 21:52 |  #16

Well .... New York is an occupied state after all.

Its a lot different than when I grew up there.

_


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Croasdail
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Jun 29, 2007 22:29 |  #17

The permits would be free and available on line... how exactly is this a tax?


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T.Hogan
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Jun 29, 2007 23:12 |  #18

Granted it should be considered a permit, but why should you need a permit to photograph on public property. Didn't this start because someone looked different. Should one complaint from one or a few, be justified to create a law that would effect all. Instead of telling that one or the few to "get over it", some have become so politicaly correct and scared of getting sued that a senseless law could happen. Please tell me, is there just so many photographers in NYC, that there is a problem, for something like this to be needed? I coold understand a pro that sets up for an hour that could be a traffic problem. But say a family on a picknick in central park?
Could common sense work for this?


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Wilt
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Jun 29, 2007 23:38 |  #19

I just figured out...the dark is leaking out of Rochester NY much too fast, and Kodak has determined that too many simultaneous open shutters is the cause, and the center of gravity of all this is in NYC


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Cyth0n
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Jun 30, 2007 05:39 |  #20

Applying for a free online permit: 99% of people won't need to anyway but for those that do, it shouldn't be a lot of trouble. As someone already stated, every other industry needs to have a permit to work on public property.

Insurance: Any pros working on the streets should already have public liablility insurance, especially if they're using tripods et cetera.

Overzealous policemen: Ok, it gives them another bullet but it's not like they weren't armed to the teeth already.

Uncetrainty in the law: Not good :(. All good law needs to be clear and certain.


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Tom ­ W
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Jun 30, 2007 07:29 |  #21

I think that it's time for all New Yorkers on this site to write to their city representatives (and to that spineless mayor) about this issue. This is nothing but a tax - there is no permit needed to exercise ones' first-amendment rights. Selective taxation (which is what this is) is a tool they use to continually raise taxes while appearing to appeal to the majority of constituents. They drastically raised taxes on cigarettes because the majority doesn't smoke (and in fact cheered when it happened). Makes 'em look like a hero while they continue to fatten the government's coffers.

Old saying: "No tax for you, no tax for me - we'll tax the man behind the tree..."


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Steve ­ Parr
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Jun 30, 2007 07:34 |  #22
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T.Hogan wrote in post #3460996 (external link)
To Steve Parr, "Not a big deal"? How bout a officer just having a bad day, and for some reason you are that photographer, this is a possible law that he must enforce. This would be a law that would have a broad range.
"The rules define a “single site” as any area within 100 feet of where filming begins. Under the rules, the two or more people would not actually have to be filming, but could simply be holding an ordinary camera and talking to each other."

Yes, no big deal.

You guys are acting like the SWAT team is going to swoop down on you if you try to take a picture.

Won't happen...


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Steve ­ Parr
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Jun 30, 2007 07:36 |  #23
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Wilt wrote in post #3461413 (external link)
You didn't read closely enough...if you were standing in line for a Broadway show with a camera over your shoulder (prior to entering, and checking the camera since they are restricted in theaters!), you just might be unable to use that camera. Or if you were sitting in a park watching a fireworks display with five of your friends, you just might be unable to use that camera.

Sorry, but I honestly believe common sense would prevail.

I really wouldn't worry about a cop giving me a hard time if I was waiting in line to see a Broadway show...


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Steve ­ Parr
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Jun 30, 2007 07:38 |  #24
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Tom W wrote in post #3463969 (external link)
I think that it's time for all New Yorkers on this site to write to their city representatives (and to that spineless mayor) about this issue. This is nothing but a tax - there is no permit needed to exercise ones' first-amendment rights. Selective taxation (which is what this is) is a tool they use to continually raise taxes while appearing to appeal to the majority of constituents. They drastically raised taxes on cigarettes because the majority doesn't smoke (and in fact cheered when it happened). Makes 'em look like a hero while they continue to fatten the government's coffers.

Old saying: "No tax for you, no tax for me - we'll tax the man behind the tree..."

My understanding is that the permit is free.

How is that a tax?


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Tom ­ W
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Jun 30, 2007 09:59 |  #25

Steve Parr wrote in post #3464001 (external link)
My understanding is that the permit is free.

How is that a tax?

It's free if you don't count the time and effort required to get one. And, of course, it won't be free for long.

Nevertheless, the bulk of the visiting public in New York will not have a permit, having not been informed that the first amendment of the United States Constitution now requires explicit permission from the local constables. As such, they can be fined when, in fact, they have committed no real crime. And THAT is a tax.

And besides all that, what exactly is the purpose of this? Nothing of value can come from this.


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Croasdail
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Jun 30, 2007 10:17 |  #26

And besides all that, what exactly is the purpose of this? Nothing of value can come from this.

The purpose is to keep impromptu photo and film shoots from setting up on city streets and public areas that would cause traffic or congestion. It happens all the time in the city. It gives the authorities the ability to clear out a situation that is causing issues for everyone else.

And no fine has been mentioned at all.... so that is not at tax. And even if there were a fine, that still is not a tax under any definition.


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Steve ­ Parr
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Jun 30, 2007 10:21 |  #27
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Tom W wrote in post #3464511 (external link)
It's free if you don't count the time and effort required to get one. And, of course, it won't be free for long.

Soooooooo... No money, no tax.

Got it...

Nevertheless, the bulk of the visiting public in New York will not have a permit, having not been informed that the first amendment of the United States Constitution now requires explicit permission from the local constables. As such, they can be fined when, in fact, they have committed no real crime. And THAT is a tax.

I was going to go out shooting today, but I fear the sky is falling...

And besides all that, what exactly is the purpose of this? Nothing of value can come from this.

I believe Croasdail explained it perfectly...


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blackshadow
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Jun 30, 2007 10:43 |  #28

From my brief scanning of the article if it is passed it will only apply to groups working over a certain length of time of people not individuals. Groups usually implies an organised photo shoot of some sort.

Hardly anything to get your knickers in a knot over as the permit is free. If you are planning a photo shoot it's just another thing to factor in to planning.


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Tom ­ W
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Jun 30, 2007 11:09 |  #29

Croasdail wrote in post #3464561 (external link)
The purpose is to keep impromptu photo and film shoots from setting up on city streets and public areas that would cause traffic or congestion. It happens all the time in the city. It gives the authorities the ability to clear out a situation that is causing issues for everyone else.

That would be what the politicians are saying but like all things political, the net result is rarely what's presented to the populace. I say this after watching government at various levels for the last 30 years. This is just a small first step - it will grow, and it won't be favorable to those of us that enjoy photography. Fight it now, or wait until it's too big to defeat.

And realistically, is there a significant problem in New York that can't be handled with the present laws already on the books? It's not like cameras and crews are a new phenomenon. If they're blocking the road, arrest them for obstruction of traffic. If they're harassing people, nail them for that. I frankly don't see the need for this.

And no fine has been mentioned at all.... so that is not at tax. And even if there were a fine, that still is not a tax under any definition.

A fine becomes a de facto tax when it is levied for violating a sham law. This is realistically a sham law.

I know that many here disagree, but I rarely ever favor giving government an inch of additional authority, especially over something so mundane as this.


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Titus213
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Jun 30, 2007 12:15 |  #30

Incremental creep! Sure, it's free now but then 5 years ago there wasn't even a free permit required. It's all about control. If they can control the sheep the wolves tend to have easier pickings. In the case of the US today the wolves have turned out to be the ones we've elected to protect the sheep. Or at least the ones who own the people we've elected.


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A TAX ON PHOTOGRAPHERS IN NY!
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