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FORUMS Photo Sharing & Visual Enjoyment Performing Arts 
Thread started 25 Sep 2007 (Tuesday) 09:54
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i got published in today's Boston Globe!

 
taygull
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Sep 30, 2007 10:37 |  #46

narlus wrote in post #4031155 (external link)
in the end, though, it does speak to the same sort of copyright and distribution issues, doesn't it?

i'm certainly not going to sue the band or pursue anything of that nonsense, and i don't think they acted in malice. it just would have been nice to get credit where credit is due. when the Globe put 'File Photo' as the source, i wonder what file they thought it was coming from? typically that would imply theirs, right? i would figure that at least they would ask about an image's provenance before they use it, so they are not abetting copyright infringement, no? what's the typical practice for papers and mags w/ issues such as this?

There is only really one way to know for certain how your images ended up in print and you not getting credit, ask the newspaper. Most likely they came from the band and we would put in the tag line "provided by the band". Some publications would put "file".

Here is the thing, does the band even know your name? Just because you told it to them or it was on the CD does not mean they still have it. What probably happened was they copied the CD to a hard drive and trashed the CD along with your name. The band I'm sure has no clue about embedded info on the images. Also if they jacked with the images they may have stripped the data by mistake. All of this could be why the paper has no idea who to give credit so they give "file".

I agree the band probably did not act in malice, they felt they owned the images because you gave them to them for the CD. I would suspect the person with the band that has control of the images is not the same person you gave the shots to. It is probably a PR person or friend who handles this stuff, so since there was nothing in writing they'd have no idea what your arrangements were.


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DwightMcCann
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Sep 30, 2007 16:58 |  #47

Narlus, sorry I haven't been around so much lately as I'm up to my ass in alligators with gigs and processing. Two things: (1) it was a very similar situation that lead me to contact the photo editor for our local news paper several years ago and which lead directly to my current good relations with them. He hired me to shoot a few events (they don't pay beans to stringers) and when I got rich and famous I told I wouldn't be wasting my time invoicing him any more. Even though he is gone my relationship to the paper is strong and I have the inside track and they know they owe me. I upload images for them almost weekly as a courtesy. I am sure they would bend over backwards to help. (2) The guy who got me the casino gig, Rick Barker, and I started out with a big fight over shooting and now he one of my best friends. I the guess the moral is that I try to turn the worst episodes into the best ... and if that doesn't work then I screw 'em. But, to date, except for a couple of dipwads here on POTN I have 100% success!


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noxcuses1
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Oct 01, 2007 08:32 |  #48

Part of the reason concert photographers make crap for money, if any, is because there are so many who will give the musicians the pics for free.

So the bands say, "Why the hell should I pay photographer "A" when photographer "B" will just hand over a cd to me?"

Of course this doesn't include the shady publications that will just freely use the image in their story without asking for permission.




  
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johnstoy
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Oct 01, 2007 17:29 |  #49

noxcuses1 wrote in post #4042231 (external link)
Part of the reason concert photographers make crap for money, if any, is because there are so many who will give the musicians the pics for free.

So the bands say, "Why the hell should I pay photographer "A" when photographer "B" will just hand over a cd to me?"

Of course this doesn't include the shady publications that will just freely use the image in their story without asking for permission.

We address this issue often... It's always the same debate... What you're saying is nothing new...


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DwightMcCann
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Oct 01, 2007 19:42 |  #50

noxcuses1 wrote in post #4042231 (external link)
Part of the reason concert photographers make crap for money, if any, is because there are so many who will give the musicians the pics for free.

So the bands say, "Why the hell should I pay photographer "A" when photographer "B" will just hand over a cd to me?"

Of course this doesn't include the shady publications that will just freely use the image in their story without asking for permission.

If a GWC will produce a product that satisfies the band for free and there is nothing a "professional" can provide that the band feels is worth paying for then the market has spoken. As John says, we've flogged this issue to death. I am not threatened that John provides images for free ... in fact, I welcome it as it demonstrates why I charge a pretty good chunk of change! (Sorry John, but you stuck your chin out!) To be honest, I hate the whining I hear about how the amateurs are ruining this business. If you can't produce a product that sets your work so far above the amateur that people clamor to pay you then maybe it's time to get into another line of business. I certainly don't want to trample on the toes of my foreign colleagues, but all my life I have heard that, "This is the American way!" I like it. I'll make over $25K this year shooting bands, events and grapes as a second job. I give the Pro Bono work away and let others get photocredit.

[Disclaimer: while it may take the food from the mouths of children, I provide courtesy images to all the local news media for events at any of my clients.]


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Uhland
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Oct 01, 2007 19:59 |  #51

taygull wrote in post #4028680 (external link)
The band is pretty much ignorant to any copyright rules that exist with us photographers, you'd think not but 98% of the people out there have no clue the rights we have.

:lol:

FORGET ABOUT SOME BAND...
98% OF US HAVE NO CLUE OF OUR OWN RIGHTS!


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johnstoy
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Oct 01, 2007 20:21 |  #52

Dwight... I only gave photos to 5 or 6 bands and venues out of over 70 shows...And two of the bands are "fledglings"...


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DwightMcCann
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Oct 01, 2007 20:26 |  #53

johnstoy wrote in post #4046150 (external link)
Dwight... I've only gave photos to 5 or 6 bands and venues out of over 70 shows...And two bands are "fledglings"...

I think you should give photos to all the bands! :rolleyes:


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johnstoy
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Oct 01, 2007 20:35 |  #54

DwightMcCann wrote in post #4046180 (external link)
I think you should give photos to all the bands! :rolleyes:

That would be more work and expense on my part... As it is, my bills are paid... I'm staying retired... ;)


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skifurthur
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Oct 01, 2007 21:58 |  #55

I live with and many of my friends are lawyers. Two of them specialize in IP work and all of the above have stressed to defend your copyright at all times or you end up losing it. I have given shots to bands when it works for me but make clear my copyright. If someone uses one of my shots in a commercial situation I negotiate compensation immediately.

Dwight speaks rightly about showing why you are worth compensation...you have to prove you are a professional at all times. Act that way, negotiate that way and provide the best product and service that way.


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noxcuses1
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Oct 02, 2007 20:18 |  #56

johnstoy wrote in post #4045144 (external link)
We address this issue often... It's always the same debate... What you're saying is nothing new...

pardon me for repeating it again then.:rolleyes:




  
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DwightMcCann
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Oct 02, 2007 20:56 |  #57

noxcuses1 wrote in post #4052841 (external link)
pardon me for repeating it again then.:rolleyes:

No, no, no! You provide an excellent opportunity to revisit this tenacious issue ... it is one of the things that I suppose I should work up a FAQ entry for ... or Skifurther with his inimitable legal expertise (or friends) might take a stab at it ... the FAQ is open for all to contribute!

Ski, I can see I have too many photography and law enforcement friends and way the heck too few lawyers!


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S.Horton
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Oct 02, 2007 22:38 |  #58

Photodawg1 wrote in post #4009613 (external link)
Is the digimarc expensive? I sent them an email, but would like to hear more from people who use them.

You might not.

I've posted twice here about it, if anyone here is using it, then they're keeping their mouths shut.

To find photos you must subscribe; $US 500 / year.

Ken Rockwell says it s*cks, so you know it is good.

BTW, Playboy uses it, and so does Corbis. I've checked, it is the industry standard for good reasons.


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narlus
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Jan 24, 2009 10:34 |  #59

ok, sorry to dredge up an old post, but once again the Boston Globe has run a Mission of Burma photo w/o assigning credit. This time it was a different shot (of Clint Conley, which can be seen here http://narlus.zenfolio​.com/img/v0/p787970474​-3.jpg (external link)), used in the G section Friday's paper accompanying a small blurb about today's show.

sigh.


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René ­ Damkot
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Jan 24, 2009 11:02 |  #60

Send an invoice.
Triple the "standard" amount: double fee for not asking permission, another fee for not crediting you.
IIRC, some people use 4 times standard fee: triple for not asking permission, once for no credit.


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i got published in today's Boston Globe!
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