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Thread started 15 Jan 2008 (Tuesday) 01:24
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Photo of a Photo -so clear- is my daughter lying?

 
george50
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Jan 15, 2008 01:24 |  #1

Photo of a photo - possible? My kids are getting slicker as the years go by. Im a snoopy Dad, and I only argue with my kids based on solid facts, and I'm just trying to figure out if this is possible...

I found a JPG of my daughter at a beach party during the time she was supposed to be grounded. She claims it was a photo of her at a party a year prior, and she just took a photo of the print since she didnt have a scanner and wanted to put it on her facebook page. She claims she did this when she was grounded and bored at home. Is this possible? The picture looks pretty sharp, but thats why I'm asking this question. The reason why I'm going all CSI on her is because the boy in the picture is her ex boyfriend who is a drug abuser and she claimed she broke up with him. I just want to be sure!
Shes a photography nut and has access to bright lights (but no access to a scanner)
The metadata (image properties) of the JPG shows:
Photo A
1/251 sec shutter speed
F/6.3
focal 6mm
exposure time 1/250sec

Photo B
f/3.2
focal 6mm
exposure time 1/640

Theyre all 600x400, 120 to 180dpi - not exactly super high-res or 8x10 quality, but looks like your average myspace photos.
the best i can do with my own experiments with a reading lamp is 1/120 film speed and 3.2 aperture. If i push it to ISO1600 it looks obviously grainy. I dont have a lot of lights but perhaps you boys have some big toys which can do this?
My question is - could she have taken a photo of a photo INDOORS with lots of lights, and still come up with the same image meta data as Photo A and Photo B above? (which look like real outdoors photos)

If you could post samples of your "photo of a photo" creations that look digital quality, not grainy...and also have similar metadata to the one above, then my mind will be at rest. If not possible, then please let me know why so I can confront my daugther with some facts.

On another note, is it possible to easily modify meta-data, especially DATE photo taken? because she might be doing that in the future.

Looking forward to seeing responses....
Thank you for your help
George




  
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Swimming_Bird
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Jan 15, 2008 01:38 |  #2

the 6mm focal length makes me think it's a photo of a photo. or is this from a point-and-shoot camera? if it was a DSLR and she took the actual photos i doubt she'd use such a focal length. but i have no idea how point and shoots work so if it's that i dont know. i dont really know of any lenses that go under 10mm, so i imagine it's a point and shoot.

on the other end, the changes in f-stop and shutter speed dont really support the photo of a photo theory.

like i said, it's important to say what type of camera she has, if she has access to lights i imagine that she probably uses a DSLR. But it's important to say what type of camera it is.

Break it down:
DSLR:
*the changes in aperture/shutter dont make sense for a photo of a photo. it'd probably remain constant
*a 6mm focal length supports the photo of a photo

non-dslr:
Cant really say since the auto settings in the camera are a lot less predictable.


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Bill ­ Boehme
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Jan 15, 2008 02:14 as a reply to  @ Swimming_Bird's post |  #3

Sadly, I think that in "going CSI", you have lost sight of what it is that you are doing and what this means to your relationship with your daughter -- the way that you are going about this "criminal" investigation is so wrong that I would not even consider supporting your well intended, but sadly misguided effort. If you would spend as much time building a positive relationship as you seem to be working on an adversarial relationship, I think that you would not have found yourself in the current predicament. Ask yourself what the next step in this escalating situation will be and also ask yourself why you are seeking help from photographers rather than getting with your daughter and working through these problems with a professional counselor.

These are harsh words and I have never used this sort of rhetoric online, but I feel very sincerely that you need a strong dose of reality.


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Swimming_Bird
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Jan 15, 2008 02:15 |  #4

i agree overall, but i feel as though the internet with no context as to the situation is not the best place to critique someones parenting.

I had a few sentences mentioning that but decided to omit them.


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cdifoto
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Jan 15, 2008 02:21 |  #5

I was gonna make an analogy to prison wardens but I decided I better not. :D


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Bill ­ Boehme
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Jan 15, 2008 02:24 |  #6

Swimming_Bird wrote in post #4705922 (external link)
i agree overall, but i feel as though the internet with no context as to the situation is not the best place to critique someones parenting.

I had a few sentences mentioning that but decided to omit them.

You are probably right and by the same token, the OP shouldn't have been airing out his family problems and soliciting our assistance in his deeds. I am hoping that the whole thread gets yanked.


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ibdb
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Jan 15, 2008 02:26 as a reply to  @ Swimming_Bird's post |  #7

Editing metadata is very easy to do. There are a huge number of programs out there that do it.

Photo of a photo thing -- without seeing the reproductions and the originals, it's too hard to say. I'd be very reluctant to take anything that anyone here tells you as definitive evidence in a case against your daughter. You know the situation better than we do, and are in a much better position to judge the whole of the situation. Even if I could say, I'm not sure that I would.


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cdifoto
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Jan 15, 2008 02:27 |  #8

She was with me the whole time. No worries, Dad.


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Permagrin
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Jan 15, 2008 02:30 |  #9

ibdb wrote in post #4705967 (external link)
Editing metadata is very easy to do. There are a huge number of programs out there that do it.

Photo of a photo thing -- without seeing the reproductions and the originals, it's too hard to say. I'd be very reluctant to take anything that anyone here tells you as definitive evidence in a case against your daughter. You know the situation better than we do, and are in a much better position to judge the whole of the situation. Even if I could say, I'm not sure that I would.

well said David. :)

OP, I can appreciate that you are trying to "know what your kids are doing". Too many parents don't.

That being said, it is easy to change the metadata in a photo but often the file will then say "metadata has been changed" and give an original date and a date of the change.

But there are just as many programs out there that can strip metadata and you'll find no information on the photo.


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sando
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Jan 15, 2008 03:46 |  #10

cdifoto wrote in post #4705970 (external link)
She was with me the whole time. No worries, Dad.

She was with you too? :D


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Zepher
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Jan 15, 2008 04:43 |  #11

Here is a photo of a photo. It was much faster to just take pictures of them than to scan them.


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René ­ Damkot
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Jan 15, 2008 05:53 |  #12

george50 wrote in post #4705730 (external link)
Is this possible?

Yes.

Why not take her word on it?


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kevin_c
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Jan 15, 2008 07:25 |  #13

George50 - I'm not being funny, but what if you find out she is 'tricking' you - what are you going to do?

Maybe you should give her the benefit of the doubt this time, but I really think you should talk about this to her rather than trying to get all the 'private eyes' in this forum (including me) to make suggestion and comments about your family.


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T.Hogan
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Jan 15, 2008 07:46 |  #14

How about getting the kid to show the father how she did such a wonderful job with this image in PS or whatever plug-in that was used.


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cdifoto
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Jan 15, 2008 07:58 |  #15

How about we let this thread go for now since OP hasn't come back.


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Photo of a Photo -so clear- is my daughter lying?
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