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Thread started 29 Jan 2008 (Tuesday) 01:47
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I'm having problem with color in my new laptop

 
psxindo
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Jan 29, 2008 01:47 |  #1

I'm going crazy about this.

first of all. I did calibrate my laptop using spyder2express.
I have windows Vista and use lightroom.

the problem is: I PPed some pictures. It looks good in lightroom. but when I export it and look at it in my folder the color seems to be off. So I thought maybe something to do srgb vs adobe rgb. But it's not. Because I transferred the exported jpg files to my desktop and the color is the same as the one in my lightroom in the laptop.
so basically,
Laptop LR = desktop windows folder.

In my laptop, everything(folder and web) is the same except for the one in lightroom.

Edit: I just notice something, If I look at a picture on the web it's different between my laptop and desktop.
also on my laptop if I were to download a picture from the web and open it in lightroom, the color in lightroom is more like the one on my desktop.


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Jan 29, 2008 04:07 |  #2

this is a common problem, so i will watch this thread to find what people here will advice or what they do?


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cdifoto
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Jan 29, 2008 04:20 |  #3

It's a Dell, right? Mine's the same way. I learned to live with it since I couldn't for the life of me figure it out. Basically any non-color managed application shows dull, muted colors. Color managed applications are fine....ie LR, PS, DPP, etc.


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davidcrebelxt
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Jan 29, 2008 06:52 |  #4

Do you have the spyder2 profile loader loading at windows startup?

There's a problem with this in Windows Vista where it loads too early... then the OS takes over and loads its own again over top of it. I've taken it out of my startup folder and put it on my desktop, then load it manually after windows starts.

I was also having a problem with the profile reverting whenever User Access Control dialogs would pop up, dimming the screen. Forum member Cosworth helped me resolve that by disabling the nVidia startup programs using msconfig. However, I don't know how I would have resolved that when I was only using integrated graphics.

Also, what program are you using to view thie images outside of LR... if its not a color-managed app like PS, and you are exporting file as ProPhoto or Srgb, you will see a difference. (However, I think the built-in picture viewer in Vista IS color-managed... my have to look into that, though.) Are you making sure to export as sRGB?

Hope someone can help you further.


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psxindo
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Jan 29, 2008 12:46 |  #5

thanks,

I'm using a vaio
Yes the profile did load...

When viewing outside of adobe, I use the built in preview from vista and firefox browser

Yes I did export in sRGB. I did some test, where I export in sRGB and adobe RGB. I didn't see any difference between the two in the built in preview from vista.

The problem is if I were to copy the jpg files to my desktop, the color in my desktop is the same as the color in LR in my laptop and desktop.

In my desktop, the color in LR and windows preview is the same.

Also I did some home printing test. I printed 3 different ways.
1. using windows - in the preview the color seems to be dull and muted, but the print result is very vibrant and bright (too much)
2. using lightroom - here is where I'm having a lot of problem. in LR the color is just right in everything, but the print is very dull and muted (worst than the windows preview). I't seem to change the "color manage by printer" setting.
3. using CS3 - in the preview the color is the same as in LR, and the print is the best out of the 3 methods (same as the LR & CS3)

I heard/read somewhere that said printing using LR is better than CS3.


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psxindo
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Jan 29, 2008 13:06 |  #6

Ok. now I just notice something else.
DPP match the color from the windows preview and web color.


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René ­ Damkot
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Jan 29, 2008 16:31 |  #7

Sounds like a color settings problem.

How's your software set up?
Have a look in the link from my sig for settings.

How do you set up the printer dialog?
Any chance of double color correction (or non) in the 3 different versions?
If the software manages colors, the printer shouldn't and vice versta.

My guess would be that both are trying to manage colors in 1, non is trying to manage colors in 2 (or the other way around), and only one is managing colors in 3 (as it should be)

Bit confusing really: In the first post you state:

psxindo wrote in post #4805724 (external link)
It looks good in lightroom. but when I export it and look at it in my folder the color seems to be off. So I thought maybe something to do srgb vs adobe rgb But it's not. Because I transferred the exported jpg files to my desktop and the color is the same as the one in my lightroom in the laptop.

What applications are we talking about here?
If its color managed vs. non color managed (LR vs. FireFox2), you could well be seeing the difference between your screen and sRGB.

psxindo wrote in post #4805724 (external link)
Because I transferred the exported jpg files to my desktop and the color is the same as the one in my lightroom in the laptop.
so basically,
Laptop LR = desktop windows folder.

In my laptop, everything(folder and web) is the same except for the one in lightroom.

On both displays (desktop and laptop) the images appear the same, in different applications, on ecolor managed, the other not? I'd call that a coincidence. A big one. ;)

psxindo wrote in post #4805724 (external link)
In my laptop, everything(folder and web) is the same except for the one in lightroom.

If the laptop is running XP, that's perfectly normal, since windows isn't color managed.
If you're running Vista I'm not sure, but I think the file browser should be color managed, so something might be off.

psxindo wrote in post #4805724 (external link)
Edit: I just notice something, If I look at a picture on the web it's different between my laptop and desktop.
also on my laptop if I were to download a picture from the web and open it in lightroom, the color in lightroom is more like the one on my desktop.

Lots of variables, and too little information.

Start of by calibrating both screens.

Compare images in color managed applications. They should be relatively close. (depending on screens and calibration).
If you are comparing two images in non color managed appliactions on different machines, all bets are pretty much off.


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davidcrebelxt
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Jan 29, 2008 17:14 |  #8

To add to that, I'll suggest again removing profile loader from running at startup (unless you are using some method to delay the loading.) Just because the colorvision splash screen says that your profile is loaded correctly, you shouldn't trust it. It may have loaded correctly for a moment, or gone through the motions, but it DOESN'T warn you if Vista instantly switches it back (or worst case, won't relinquish control of the profile.) Sometimes you may actually see the colors flicker back and forth 2+ times as Vista and the profile loader have a little war during startup(and typically, Vista will win.)


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psxindo
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Jan 29, 2008 17:30 |  #9

thanks rene... I've read your post many times...

to clarify:
my desktop is XP and Laptop is Vista.
both monitors are calibrated using spyder2express.
both PC loaded the profiles correctly.

If I open the image in LR on both laptop and desktop, they are fairly similar in color.
but when I open the image in windows preview, the laptop is muted and dull, but the one in desktop is similar to the one in desktop and laptop LR.

I did some reading from the web. There's a test for color in photoshop.

TROUBLESHOOT washed out, desaturated lighter darker pictures:

If reading up or trouble shooting WHY color shifts de saturates washes out on the internet, in Photoshop Save for Web or ImageReady — here is the answer — also please read:
sRGB is the Correct Color Space for the Internet White Paper

The problem is an easy test in Adobe Photoshop SoftProof.
In Photoshop, after Converting to sRGB, go to:

Photoshop> View> Proof Setup> Monitor RGB
Photoshop> View> Proof Setup> Windows RGB
(There should be very little difference here
between Monitor RGB and Windows RGB.)

Any color differences between MonitorRGB and WindowsRGB in this Photoshop Soft Proofing is the difference between the monitor color space, Monitor RGB, and the sRGB colorspace -- exactly as shown above in the tagged-untagged sRGB photos paired above.

If this SoftProofing technique confirms where the wrong color or density shift occurs, the solution to fix and solve the color issues is to recalibrate and reprofile display monitor to 2.2 gamma, D65 6500 degrees Kelvin.

If there is still a blue shift, a bluish tint blueish tone to the photos, the actual monitor hardware is likely set to 9200 9300 degrees Kelvin. Likewise, a yellow cast would indicate the monitor itself is set to 5500 5000 Kelvin degrees. If the monitor has buttons, enter its menu and set its color temperature to 6500 to match its ICC profile to minimize any unwanted warm or cool tones.

If untagged AppleRGB and untagged sRGB both display incorrect color in Safari or FireFox, I would say you have a bad monitor profile or bad operating system, software bug or odd approach to monitor profiling.

###


I did the test and when I soft proof to monitor RGB , it's similar to the exported jpg file in windows preview. But I don't understand why and how to fix this problem.

Regarding printing using lightroom, I found this on the adobe forum:
http://www.adobeforums​.com/webx?14@@.3bca10f​2/17 (external link)
I can't change the "color manage" dialog in LR.
If I choose other, it only show blank.
only choice is "color manage by printer". And this option gave me the dull and muted colors.

thanks


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psxindo
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Jan 29, 2008 17:33 |  #10

davidcrebelxt wrote in post #4810522 (external link)
To add to that, I'll suggest again removing profile loader from running at startup (unless you are using some method to delay the loading.) Just because the colorvision splash screen says that your profile is loaded correctly, you shouldn't trust it. It may have loaded correctly for a moment, or gone through the motions, but it DOESN'T warn you if Vista instantly switches it back (or worst case, won't relinquish control of the profile.) Sometimes you may actually see the colors flicker back and forth 2+ times as Vista and the profile loader have a little war during startup(and typically, Vista will win.)


thanks.... Actually most of the time the profile loaded correctly without reverting back.
Everytime I open lightroom, I would reload the profile.


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thunnus
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Jan 29, 2008 17:47 as a reply to  @ davidcrebelxt's post |  #11

I have a Vista laptop with an integrated display adaptor (Intel GMA X3100) so the NVidia settings fix as posted elsewhere doesn't work in my case. The color calibration profile via Eye One Display 2 won't stay loaded unless I force a late load via a shareware program called Startup Delay. It works but that Vista habit of reverting to the default color profile every time the screen dims (UAC, sleep, hibernate, etc.) is an unresolved issue for me. I have the additional problem of not being able to load the color profile manually using the profile loader that came with the Eye One. I have to reboot.

I am hoping that the upcoming Service Pack for Vista will address this. Otherwise, I am contemplating a switch back to XP for my laptop.


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René ­ Damkot
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Jan 29, 2008 21:28 |  #12

psxindo wrote in post #4810615 (external link)
If I open the image in LR on both laptop and desktop, they are fairly similar in color.

They should, that's what color management tries to achieve :)
So far, so good.

psxindo wrote in post #4810615 (external link)
but when I open the image in windows preview, the laptop is muted and dull, but the one in desktop is similar to the one in desktop and laptop LR.

Double check: Laptop is using Vista, right?
So (AFAIK) the Vista viewer is color managed. It should therefore display *identical* (not similar, but the same) to LR.
If it doesn't, then either it isn't color managed (may be settable in some preference, no idea; I'm on a Mac), or one of the two programs isn't using the correct profile.

psxindo wrote in post #4810615 (external link)
I did some reading from the web. There's a test for color in photoshop.
[...]

Any color differences between MonitorRGB and WindowsRGB in this Photoshop Soft Proofing is the difference between the monitor color space, Monitor RGB, and the sRGB colorspace -- exactly as shown above in the tagged-untagged sRGB photos paired above.

Yeah, well... Like I said inpost #40 in the link from my sig:

"Windows proof is assuming sRGB (so an sRGB file shouldn't change; an AdobeRGB will look 'flat');
Monitor profile is a non color managed application on your system. (assumes monitor profile: No conversion of colors)

Note that in my screenshot, the non proofed image looks the same as the windows proof. The Mac proof shows the difference between Gamma 2.2 and 1.8, the Monitor proof shows the difference between my monitor profile and sRGB..."

So, as far as I read it, I agree with this part.

psxindo wrote in post #4810615 (external link)

If this SoftProofing technique confirms where the wrong color or density shift occurs, the solution to fix and solve the color issues is to recalibrate and reprofile display monitor to 2.2 gamma, D65 6500 degrees Kelvin.

If there is still a blue shift, a bluish tint blueish tone to the photos, the actual monitor hardware is likely set to 9200 9300 degrees Kelvin. Likewise, a yellow cast would indicate the monitor itself is set to 5500 5000 Kelvin degrees. If the monitor has buttons, enter its menu and set its color temperature to 6500 to match its ICC profile to minimize any unwanted warm or cool tones.

I *think* what he's saying here, is that if for some reason your monitor is set to the wrong whitepoint (5000K or 9300K, instead of 6500K, way more yellowish or blueish), so calibrated wrong, it's far from sRGB, so you see a huge difference.
What he's not saying however, is that *no* monitor out there will behave identical to the sRGB standard. There will allways be a difference between your monitor and sRGB: sRGB represents the 'avarage' (CRT) monitor.

psxindo wrote in post #4810615 (external link)
If untagged AppleRGB and untagged sRGB both display incorrect color in Safari or FireFox, I would say you have a bad monitor profile or bad operating system, software bug or odd approach to monitor profiling.


I dont agree. This bit is at least incomplete. For one thing, AppleRGB assumes gamma 1.8, sRGB gamma 2.2. One of them will look vastly different from the same (tagged; with embedded profile) image in PS.
If you open an image without embedded profile in photoshop, and don't assign one, PS will display it as if it has the default RGB working space, so that you're in for quite a surprise if your default space were ProPhotoRGB for instance :p

psxindo wrote in post #4810615 (external link)
I did the test and when I soft proof to monitor RGB , it's similar to the exported jpg file in windows preview. But I don't understand why and how to fix this problem.

That would suggest windows preview isn't color managed. Again: Normal for XP, not sure about Vista.

psxindo wrote in post #4810615 (external link)
Regarding printing using lightroom, I found this on the adobe forum:
http://www.adobeforums​.com/webx?14@@.3bca10f​2/17 (external link)
I can't change the "color manage" dialog in LR.
If I choose other, it only show blank.
only choice is "color manage by printer". And this option gave me the dull and muted colors.

If you set "color managed by printer" make sure you set that as well in the *printer* dialog.

To be able to set a printer/paper profile in LR, make sure the profiles are in the correct place. No idea where that would be in either version of Windows.
Here's a link (external link) that might help.

Although, from skimming that link, the problem might also be Vista (or printer-driver) related:

After much trial and error I have found that it is impossible to turn off colour management by the printer with Vista driver and the printer does not seem to understand the prophoto that LR sends


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psxindo
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Jan 29, 2008 21:55 |  #13

again thanks Rene...

I'm using vista on my laptop.
I did another test. In vista there is a windows color management system.
Right now I'm using Spyder2express profile for the monitor.
I change the profile to sRGB.
Restart Windows.
Now LR and windows preview are the same, but it's muted and dull.
So, I reload Spyder2express profile. restart LR. Back to the starting point again. LR looks great but windows preview is muted and dull.


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René ­ Damkot
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Jan 30, 2008 08:06 |  #14

Sounds like the "windows preview" isn't color managed, and your monitor profile is smaller then sRGB.

What settings did you use for the Spyder calibration? 6500K and gamma 2.2, right?


"I think the idea of art kills creativity" - Douglas Adams
Why Color Management.
Color Problems? Click here.
MySpace (external link)
Get Colormanaged (external link)
Twitter (external link)
PERSONAL MESSAGING REGARDING SELLING OR BUYING ITEMS WITH MEMBERS WHO HAVE NO POSTS IN FORUMS AND/OR WHO YOU DO NOT KNOW FROM FORUMS IS HEREBY DECLARED STRICTLY STUPID AND YOU WILL GET BURNED.

  
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psxindo
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Jan 30, 2008 12:46 |  #15

I'm using spyder2express...
I don't see anywhere that I can change the temp and gamma...


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