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Thread started 06 Feb 2008 (Wednesday) 10:21
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How do you guys use your Maha C9000 with your eneloops or any battery?

 
nutsnbolts
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Feb 09, 2008 12:00 |  #16

ben_r_ wrote in post #4883198 (external link)
Yea I had that happen once. Dummy me I plugged the charger into an outlet that was hooked to a light switch and you guessed it, someone turned the light switch off. Yea if that happens you basically have to start all over because once the charger resets its default reset state is to just charge and I believe the default capacity setting is something like 2100-2200mah. So youll have to start the whole break in process over again remembering to give it the correct capacity value of 2700mah. And yes like I mentioned before it really does take about two days to do the break in process, but remember this: after a break in has been completed your batteries will actually hold closer to their 2700mah capacity and you only have to do it once in a long while. Plus if you have or had any old rechargeable batteries that needed reviving believe me you would be thoroughly inpressed by what running the break in cycle with that charger will do to breath new life into old batteries that you thought were done for.

Crap! I guess here I go again with the break-in process.

My next question is the following:

I have 8 previous Eneloop batteries that I have been using (not the 8 new ones). I can say it's relatively brand new. I have been using the charger that came with the batteries (eneloop charger, let's call it). It has gone through at least a couple charges.

Now that I'm using the Maha charger, do I do a break-in with this? What the heck is refresh and analyze used for?

Lastly, one last question. I noticed that when I plugged in a battery to charge (the 2700), it asked me for a charge something something, 200-300-400-500 something like that I can't recall.

Which do I choose? Nothing in the manual says what I should use other than "set charge to.."


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Feb 09, 2008 12:32 |  #17

nutsnbolts wrote in post #4883408 (external link)
Crap! I guess here I go again with the break-in process.

My next question is the following:

I have 8 previous Eneloop batteries that I have been using (not the 8 new ones). I can say it's relatively brand new. I have been using the charger that came with the batteries (eneloop charger, let's call it). It has gone through at least a couple charges.

Now that I'm using the Maha charger, do I do a break-in with this? What the heck is refresh and analyze used for?

Lastly, one last question. I noticed that when I plugged in a battery to charge (the 2700), it asked me for a charge something something, 200-300-400-500 something like that I can't recall.

Which do I choose? Nothing in the manual says what I should use other than "set charge to.."

Well if it were me I would do a break in on all the batteries I have, it really cant hurt and it helps ensure you are getting the maximum capacity out of each cell (battery). Now that being said, the Refresh & Analyze function is used more for determining the condition of a battery. So you could say take those 8 not new eneloops, run them through the refreash & analyze cycle and then see what the charger reports back as their maximum capacity and if its a lot lower than the 2000mah they should be you would then know what lose they suffered by them previously being charged in a non smart charger like the one they came with. But if you only charged them once or twice in the original charger I would just call them new still and do a break in on those 8 as well. I think of the refresh & analyze function as more usefull when I have a really old rechargeable battery that I know nothing about (how many times its been charged, what the capacity is now vs what its supposed to be, etc.) however if I know nothing about it and its old I would just read on the side of the battery what the capacity is supposed to be and do a break in on it anyway bypassing the use of the refresh & analyze function. The manual also suggests you do a refresh & analyze one batteries that have sat for 3 months or so... However with the ultra low discharge properties of the eneloops thats probably more like 10 months to a year theyd have to be sitting before I would do a refresh & analyze.

Now when you put in the 2700 batteries and it asked you something: when you just put in a battery the charger defaults to its basic charge function. What is was asking you is at what charge rate would you like to charge this battery? The lower the slower the higher the faster. Too slow or too fast and you risk damage to the batteries life. The manual says stay between 0.33C and 1.00C where C is the capacity of the battery. So for your 2700mah batteries, the break in mode uses .1C (apparently for breaking in its okay to use such a low charge rate, I guess thats how it restores old batteries to work better or like new) which would be .1 x 2700 or 270mA which is the amount of current the charger will output to charge the battery. Now this is where my playing around falls short as I have not taken the time to play with different values between .33C and 1.0C to figure out how long it actually takes to charge the 2000mah eneloops. And of course the times would all differ for a 2700mah battery. But I believe I have been using .5C and I wouldnt suggest going any higher than .8C personally. So that would be .5 x 2700 = 1350mA or as close as you can get in the rounded numbers it gives you so select, and .8 x 2700 = 2160mA. Though I cant tell you what either of those translate to time wise. Just remember you do not want a quick charger out this ordeal. Those shorten the life of batteries and lessen the capacity. You should always plan ahead and keep your batteries charged and with ultra low discharge batteries that is pretty easy to do.


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nutsnbolts
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Feb 09, 2008 13:14 |  #18

Dang, you through math in there! I read the .1C explanation in the manual. Essentially, so I understand this.

1. Don't charge to high or too low for it can lessen the battery life or ruin them.
2. Stay between .33C and 1.00C. Buffer it a bit and you're looking at min .5C and .8C

I don't understand the rounded numbers bit. Are you saying that I should use setting charge of 1350mA and 2150mA or whatever mA is between those two?

Lastly, what happens, let's say, if I'm out and about, come back from a shoot, decide to charge my battery for next day (although not drained), just making sure it's topp'd off...

Could I just pop the batteries in and plug the charger in and let it run it's course or do I have to keep setting the charger to 2700 or 2000 respectively and then set "charge to.." and then charge?


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ben_r_
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Feb 09, 2008 18:11 |  #19

nutsnbolts wrote in post #4883694 (external link)
Dang, you through math in there! I read the .1C explanation in the manual. Essentially, so I understand this.

1. Don't charge to high or too low for it can lessen the battery life or ruin them.
2. Stay between .33C and 1.00C. Buffer it a bit and you're looking at min .5C and .8C

I don't understand the rounded numbers bit. Are you saying that I should use setting charge of 1350mA and 2150mA or whatever mA is between those two?

Lastly, what happens, let's say, if I'm out and about, come back from a shoot, decide to charge my battery for next day (although not drained), just making sure it's topp'd off...

Could I just pop the batteries in and plug the charger in and let it run it's course or do I have to keep setting the charger to 2700 or 2000 respectively and then set "charge to.." and then charge?

Yes, numbers 1 and 2 from your post are correct. Now what I was trying to say was that the charger only lets you set the charge (or a discharge value) in 100mA increments and if you needed 1350mA you would have to round to 1300mA or 1400mA or for .8C 2100mA or 2200mA. Thats all I meant there. Sorry if it came out confusing.

Now, if it were me and I was out shooting and used up say only half the capacity of a set of four batteries and I cam home and wanted to make sure they were topped off for the next day, I would first run a discharge cycle on them and then run the charge cycle on them. "Topping off" or charging a half charged battery is exactly what promotes problems with shaping. Reshaping of a battery is the very thing we are trying to keep from happening with a fancy smart charger like the C9000. When you repeatedly recharge a not fully discharged nimh battery eventually it will not longer reach the maximum capacity it once could. Then we start all over and have to run a break in cycle on the battery in the hopes that it can be revived. So yea you might be okay topping off the batteries now and again, but I wouldnt make a habit of operating them that way and personally I am super anal about my batteries (hence why I bought a $70 charger) and I would run a discharge cycle first on them and then a charge cycle. Or you can do what I did and just buy LOTS of eneloops and carry more with you that way you can finish using up the four you had half drained and always have spares ;) .


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nutsnbolts
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Feb 09, 2008 20:48 |  #20

ben_r_ wrote in post #4884986 (external link)
Yes, numbers 1 and 2 from your post are correct. Now what I was trying to say was that the charger only lets you set the charge (or a discharge value) in 100mA increments and if you needed 1350mA you would have to round to 1300mA or 1400mA or for .8C 2100mA or 2200mA. Thats all I meant there. Sorry if it came out confusing.

Now, if it were me and I was out shooting and used up say only half the capacity of a set of four batteries and I cam home and wanted to make sure they were topped off for the next day, I would first run a discharge cycle on them and then run the charge cycle on them. "Topping off" or charging a half charged battery is exactly what promotes problems with shaping. Reshaping of a battery is the very thing we are trying to keep from happening with a fancy smart charger like the C9000. When you repeatedly recharge a not fully discharged nimh battery eventually it will not longer reach the maximum capacity it once could. Then we start all over and have to run a break in cycle on the battery in the hopes that it can be revived. So yea you might be okay topping off the batteries now and again, but I wouldnt make a habit of operating them that way and personally I am super anal about my batteries (hence why I bought a $70 charger) and I would run a discharge cycle first on them and then a charge cycle. Or you can do what I did and just buy LOTS of eneloops and carry more with you that way you can finish using up the four you had half drained and always have spares ;) .

I see.

I have read on another forum where a guy was saying (according to Maha Support) that you should always round up. In other words, with the example of needing 1350mA you stated use 1300mA or 1400mA. I should really use 1400mA. Correct me if I'm wrong. I wish I can find that link again about it. Back when I read it, I really didn't understand it.

Anyway, that makes sense regarding discharging them first before charging so that it doesn't reshape.

I don't want to be too anal about this but the eneloop charger that came with this, I can't even fathom what it does, in comparison to the Maha. With all this "work" to maximize the capabilities of the Maha charger, are there any significant loss?

I mean, if I used the eneloop charger for 10 years and you use the maha charger for 10 years, would we be replacing the battery at the same time? The difference would be that I wouldn't really be worrying about all the "work" in working a Maha charger? Don't get me wrong, i love the charger but dang, I didn't know there was an entire science to it.

On a side note: This analogy reminds me of overclocking computers. Yes, overclocking degrades the life of the computer. Instead of it lasting 5 years, it will last only 3 years but if you think about it, reaping the benefits of overclocking, we all know that in 3 years time, you'd be force to upgrade the computer anyway due to technology advances. So it makes sense (if you know how) to overclock.

I guess I have to get used to the different modes of the charger. I'm still trying to get grips on Charge mode, Refresh & Analyze Mode, Discharge Mode and Cycle Mode.

Break-in, I pretty much understand. What is the purpose of Cycle mode?

I am presuming if you need to "top off" a battery, you go through a refresh & analyze mode?
It recharges then discharges and the recharges.

Also discharge rate and charge rate? I should be setting this the same? For example, for a 2000maH battery with a .8 charge rate = 1600mA, the discharge rate should be 1600mA as well?

I haven't done a discharge yet but it does say I can set a discharge rate as well.


Sorry for all these questions it has been helpful! Thanks again!


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Feb 26, 2008 02:53 |  #21

ben_r_ wrote in post #4869741 (external link)
Yea except youll be setting the mah to 2700 when you do the break in or anything else that is capacity specific.

hi - just got this charger last night (been meaning to get it from the states last year but never got around to it)
for an AA battery that's 2700, did you mean put the charger to 2700mah as well?
wouldn't that mean charging the batterys at 1c equivalent? i thought you're supposed to slow charge at .1c so for a 2700, it'll be 270?

i've decided to refresh my batteries last night (2700 capacity) and set the charging level to 500mah.

the charger is still running this morning when i woke up and on discharge mode. i have no idea how long this will take :rolleyes:


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Feb 26, 2008 08:49 as a reply to  @ nutsnbolts's post |  #22

got this charger last week and thought I was having an issue with my batteries? I think I set the charging level too low, took forever. I have the MAHA 8 battery charger too and like that, but this one is a little more advanced. Will keep an eye on this thread closely.:)


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Feb 26, 2008 18:55 |  #23

muscleflex wrote in post #4996736 (external link)
hi - just got this charger last night (been meaning to get it from the states last year but never got around to it)
for an AA battery that's 2700, did you mean put the charger to 2700mah as well?
wouldn't that mean charging the batterys at 1c equivalent? i thought you're supposed to slow charge at .1c so for a 2700, it'll be 270?

This is correct.

muscleflex wrote in post #4996736 (external link)
i've decided to refresh my batteries last night (2700 capacity) and set the charging level to 500mah.

the charger is still running this morning when i woke up and on discharge mode. i have no idea how long this will take :rolleyes:

Yea if you did the break in mode it will litterally take two days. I have never done the refresh and analyze mode, but I assume it will take a day or so.


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Nov 15, 2008 20:45 |  #24

What mah value should you discharge eneloop batteries or any AA Batteries




  
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Nov 22, 2008 00:22 as a reply to  @ K. Dragna's post |  #25

As for discharging, it should not exceed 1.0C
Eneloops is 2000 mah.

So it would be anything lower than 2000 mah.


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Jun 26, 2012 23:57 |  #26

Reviving this old thread as there's alot of good info here. I just picked up a MH-C9000 charger with a fresh set of Eneloops hr-3utga and have a few questions.

For Discharge, what should I set it at? Default is 500mah, should I leave it at that or set it lower?

For Break In, what should the Capacity be set to? These are the newer Eneloops and the battery says "min 1900 mah". Should I set it to 1900 or 2000 or something else?

Thanks!




  
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Jun 27, 2012 10:59 |  #27

Yea it really is a great thread. I have kept Subscribed to it!

For Discharge I just leave it at the default.

For Break-in I have always done 2000mah for the standard eneloops.


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Jun 27, 2012 11:26 |  #28

would you say that's the case even for the hr-3utga? (which are the newer eneloop AA)




  
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Jun 27, 2012 12:43 |  #29

orisky wrote in post #14639534 (external link)
would you say that's the case even for the hr-3utga? (which are the newer eneloop AA)

Likely yes - just follow the instruction sheet that came with the charger. I believe those instructions may even be on the Thomas Distributing website as a downloadable PDF.


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Jun 27, 2012 13:59 |  #30

I've read the paper instructions a few times and I'm not seeing it. I have it set to 1900 for this break in period.




  
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How do you guys use your Maha C9000 with your eneloops or any battery?
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