Approve the Cookies
This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and our Privacy Policy.
OK
Index  •   • New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Guest
New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Register to forums    Log in

 
FORUMS General Gear Talk Flash and Studio Lighting 
Thread started 28 Mar 2008 (Friday) 13:41
Search threadPrev/next
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

My daughter is a model . . .

 
Wilt
Reader's Digest Condensed version of War and Peace [POTN Vol 1]
Avatar
44,468 posts
Gallery: 1 photo
Likes: 3531
Joined Aug 2005
Location: Belmont, CA
     
Mar 29, 2008 08:55 |  #16

a521 wrote in post #5213804 (external link)
I hate it when people say "leave it ot the pros!" You hear that a lot in the (former) wedding forums. You can learn a lot in a very short time in terms of lighting, and if you have the equipment I think you're crazy not to get involved in your daughters career. .

Simply recognizing that it does take time to learn lighting, and that one could be hurting the income production capability by circulating ordinary photos that do not catch the eye of someone selecting 'talent' for a job is merely being wise!

If he want's to learn lighting, that is great. If he wants to eventually shoot his daughter's headshots for use in getting her face circulated, that is great. To NOT take the pictures himself, but to use a pro, until AFTER he has learned to use lighting satisfactorily is merely recognizing one's limits.


You need to give me OK to edit your image and repost! Keep POTN alive and well with member support https://photography-on-the.net/forum/donate.p​hp
Canon dSLR system, Olympus OM 35mm system, Bronica ETRSi 645 system, Horseman LS 4x5 system, Metz flashes, Dynalite studio lighting, and too many accessories to mention

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)
Rutha73
Senior Member
Avatar
571 posts
Joined Apr 2007
Location: Mesa, AZ
     
Mar 29, 2008 14:16 |  #17

Mike Photo wrote in post #5213675 (external link)
There is a lot of good points right here but this is my advice aswell...



I know hundreds of models that went years getting top quality images for their Folio for free on a trade basis. There are countless photographers looking for a mutual trade or just looking to not pay a model for personal ideas or marketing images.

I know our Phoenix group has gotten together and done model/lighting practice this way, have you seen the AZ thread here: https://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthre​ad.php?t=141703 I have not been able to attend one of these shoots, but the work they turn out looks top notch to me ( I'm a noob, so all the pics on that thread look really good to me). Check out that thread and see what you think.


~Jake AZPOTN (external link)
Rebel XTi, Kit lens, Sigma 28-70 2.8-4 DG, Sigma 70-300 4-5.6 DG "Macro", Manfrotto 3021 BPRO, Manfrotto 322RC2, BG-E3 grip, 580 EXII
flickr (external link)
Picasa (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
danieltr
Member
Avatar
100 posts
Joined Nov 2003
Location: LaSalle, Quebec, Canada
     
Mar 29, 2008 14:45 |  #18

a521 wrote in post #5213804 (external link)
I hate it when people say "leave it ot the pros!" You hear that a lot in the (former) wedding forums. You can learn a lot in a very short time in terms of lighting, and if you have the equipment I think you're crazy not to get involved in your daughters career.

As far as the cost of updating her book, that doesn't sound too out of line to me. Depending on how young she is, you may have to update it often. A friend of mine is going thru the same thing with his 13 year old daughter. The agency she is working for asks that they use a list of photographers to update her portfolio and they charge about the same each time. He has stuck to using those photographers and they are getting expensive.

The Sunpak 383's would be a much more affordable option and they work better with the cactus (much cheaper) transmitters than the canon speedlights. If you have the money, then spend a grand on the canon speedlights, they are the best available. But if you are on a budget, like most of us...then there are many less expensive alternatives.

I agree with you and remember every photograph start as a newbie and learn with the mistake they made...So let's encourage him instead... IMHO


Canon 30D/grip, 2 x Canon 10D/grip, Sigma 28-70 f2.8, Tamron 200-400mm, Sigma 70-200mm F2.8, Canon 28mm F2.8 , Sigma 50MM F2.8 Macro, Canon 50mm F1.8 II, M42 58mm F2.8, Manfrotto 055 + 056, Manfrotto Monopod, 2 Lowepro bags, Accessories:):)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Screamer
Senior Member
Avatar
811 posts
Likes: 1
Joined Apr 2005
Location: Cleveland
     
Mar 29, 2008 18:26 as a reply to  @ danieltr's post |  #19
bannedPermanent ban

Irishmen,

I'm guessing that you are paying these fees to a photographer, not the agency correct? I shoot for a couple of the top Seattle agencies, and they send me models that I bill directly. I am not represented by them, but am on a short list.

$500 is fair in this neck of the woods for 3 looks...might be a little on the low side for 4 looks. That price would not cover Hair/MUA/Stylist though, unless you were working out some trade, etc..

Of course, there is so much that goes into this estimate and your milage may vary. Photographer track record and experience plays into the cost plus number of locations per look, etc...Depending on model experience, I work with them on posing for editorial, Avant Garde, etc...that should be counted in to the total value too...The book should be securing work for the model, nothing less. Ideally, you should be adding tear sheets along the way of published work...make sure to pick up copies of Elle, W, and the like. They can serve as recipes!

As for your position, in the agency work that I have done, I try to do some natural lighting every time. Try and use a reflector and diffused window light, or a nice day with high clouds outside, etc..You can accomplish a lot, with a little.

Of course, if you try and move into studio work associated costs go up, and you'll be expected to light like you were shooting for major catalogue work, etc...


- Phil

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
PhotosGuy
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
75,941 posts
Gallery: 8 photos
Likes: 2590
Joined Feb 2004
Location: Middle of Michigan
     
Mar 30, 2008 08:00 |  #20

2. Is she contracted by an agency? If not who is telling you that she needs new images.

3. How old is she? If she is under 10 years old new pix under once a year are a waste of time and cash regardless of who shoots them. And most of all REAL agencies want tear sheets at some point.

Good points. New tear sheets give you a reason for "See what I've worked on lately" appointments, & she should be getting them from every job she does. I'd be more interested in seeing them than a new print from a Craigs List TFP shooter. (NOT the same as doing test shots for an established photographer who will trade her time for a few prints.)

Still, there's no reason that you couldn't gain some experience by shooting her yourself. Another cheap strobe & a few umbrellas & you could learn a lot along the way.
Simple 2 Light Portrait Set-up


FrankC - 20D, RAW, Manual everything...
Classic Carz, Racing, Air Show, Flowers.
Find the light... A few Car Lighting Tips, and MOVE YOUR FEET!
Have you thought about making your own book? // Need an exposure crutch?
New Image Size Limits: Image must not exceed 1600 pixels on any side.

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
irishman
THREAD ­ STARTER
Goldmember
Avatar
4,098 posts
Likes: 14
Joined Jul 2007
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
     
Mar 30, 2008 10:44 |  #21

Thanks to everyone for their input. I didn't mean to turn this into a conversation about modeling but I'll address some of the issues raised. Yes, she's young---15 years old and with what I believe is the largest legitimate agency in the country. And yes, she's not making enough money at this point to cover expenses. She is the youngest model in the adult section (they have a teen/child section) and the auditions she goes to are for more adult products. We have discussed this with the agency and they want her in the adult area. The $500 I mentioned was for only two looks, paid to the photog., but did include hair/makeup/stylist. The agency used to let you choose your photographer, but are now in the process of strongly suggesting this one particular photographer be used when the models update their book. I was going to post a couple of the shots on the site for your critiquing, but mom says no. Even though we paid for the shots, our rights to them are limited. She doesn't even want me to list his web site (my daughters photo's are on his homepage). Yes, we have had numerous photographers offer to do it for nothing, but if the agency suggests something, the wife rolls over like a puppy.
I'll look into gradually adding another Speedlight and softbox and most importantly practice. That Phoenix group mentioned above looks like a good place to start.
Thanks again.


6D, G9, Sigma 50 1.4, Sigma 15mm Fisheye, Sigma 50 2.8 macro, Nikon 14-24G 2.8, Canon 16-35 2.8 II, Canon 24-105 f/4 IS, Canon 70-200 2.8 IS, tripod, lights, other stuff.

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sharkii
Member
Avatar
210 posts
Joined May 2007
Location: TURKEY
     
Mar 30, 2008 10:50 |  #22

yo irishman did you get the pm??
I am glad that you have a plan...go for it!


Canon EOS 5D, 17-40 4L, 28-70 2.8L, 70-200 4L IS, 50 1.8, 430EX, POTN Strap, 055XPROB+488RC2, bags etc.
The TURK in POTN

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
PhotosGuy
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
75,941 posts
Gallery: 8 photos
Likes: 2590
Joined Feb 2004
Location: Middle of Michigan
     
Mar 31, 2008 13:44 |  #23

Even though we paid for the shots, our rights to them are limited.

Even if you're general rights didn't allow the prints to be shown, technically you have the right to show them on the web for educational purposes which is one big reason POTN exists.

...strongly suggesting this one particular photographer be used

Someone is getting a cut of the shooting fee IMO.


FrankC - 20D, RAW, Manual everything...
Classic Carz, Racing, Air Show, Flowers.
Find the light... A few Car Lighting Tips, and MOVE YOUR FEET!
Have you thought about making your own book? // Need an exposure crutch?
New Image Size Limits: Image must not exceed 1600 pixels on any side.

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Mcary
Senior Member
Avatar
978 posts
Joined Oct 2006
Location: Virginia USA
     
Mar 31, 2008 14:30 |  #24

irishman wrote in post #5223596 (external link)
Thanks to everyone for their input. I didn't mean to turn this into a conversation about modeling but I'll address some of the issues raised. Yes, she's young---15 years old and with what I believe is the largest legitimate agency in the country. And yes, she's not making enough money at this point to cover expenses. She is the youngest model in the adult section (they have a teen/child section) and the auditions she goes to are for more adult products. We have discussed this with the agency and they want her in the adult area. The $500 I mentioned was for only two looks, paid to the photog., but did include hair/makeup/stylist. The agency used to let you choose your photographer, but are now in the process of strongly suggesting this one particular photographer be used when the models update their book. I was going to post a couple of the shots on the site for your critiquing, but mom says no. Even though we paid for the shots, our rights to them are limited. She doesn't even want me to list his web site (my daughters photo's are on his homepage). Yes, we have had numerous photographers offer to do it for nothing, but if the agency suggests something, the wife rolls over like a puppy.
I'll look into gradually adding another Speedlight and softbox and most importantly practice. That Phoenix group mentioned above looks like a good place to start.
Thanks again.

According to the professional models I know and have worked with. Their agencies, which include Ford and Elite, are always telling them not to use more then a few images from any single photographer for their book and instead to include work by a number of photographers with different styles in order to show their range as a model.

Mike


OMG I saw a nipple, my eye's are bleeding!
Visit http://www.mcaryphoto.​net (external link) (Nudity) warning most images found on this website were shot with cheap plastic lens (50mm 1.4 85 1.8 and 35 2.0)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
LBaldwin
Goldmember
Avatar
4,490 posts
Likes: 2
Joined Mar 2006
Location: San Jose,CA
     
Mar 31, 2008 14:34 |  #25

Hey Frank,

I am sorry but something smells fishy here too.
1. If you agency does not want you to use other shooters that would include the OP, yes?
2. If the agency has one unique style in mind or market in in mind then their photographer is the one that can shoot to that market, not the OP
3. AZ is not the hotbed of the fashion, photography or model market so why the exclusivity?

Like I said prior to this my guess is the OP or his wife are paying the agency -prior to any work- and that as you more experienced folks may know is a no-no and a sure sign of a ripp-off. My guess is he and the girls got caught in the under tow and the bottom feeders (see my earlier post) have them by the wallet.

EDIT: Now that I am on my soapbox.... Models are rarely chosen on their portfolio anymore, if the model is hot and has a great attidude and a great sense of style she could show up with a stack of home movies and a stack of polaroids and photographers would be falling all over her.... It is usually the agencies that REQUIRE the portfolio.


Les Baldwin
http://www.fotosfx.com (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
PhotosGuy
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
75,941 posts
Gallery: 8 photos
Likes: 2590
Joined Feb 2004
Location: Middle of Michigan
     
Mar 31, 2008 20:04 |  #26

Models are rarely chosen on their portfolio anymore,

True, & in our case, they never were. Agency images are just get the foot in the door for newbies. The photographer & Ad agency would decide or sometime recommend a few to the client who made the final decision. Nobody cared who the model agency was pushing that week. Their primary purpose was billing.


FrankC - 20D, RAW, Manual everything...
Classic Carz, Racing, Air Show, Flowers.
Find the light... A few Car Lighting Tips, and MOVE YOUR FEET!
Have you thought about making your own book? // Need an exposure crutch?
New Image Size Limits: Image must not exceed 1600 pixels on any side.

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
DizzyV6P
Senior Member
354 posts
Joined Dec 2004
Location: DC Metro Area
     
Mar 31, 2008 23:07 |  #27

For some reason, I find the HIGHLY DOUBTFUL that one of the "largest legitimate agency" in the country would be steering everyone to one particular photographer. Many others on POTN have also stated the same thing. That should already ring a few alarm bells.

If you are afraid to post pictures, I'm sure if you post the name of the Agency, a few of the rabid members on POTN could tell you exactly what you are getting into. That would protect the identity of the photographer and your daughter's pictures while leaving us sleuths with a bit more information to give you better advice. Just a thought.


Canon 40D : Tamron 17-50 f/2.8 : Canon EF 70-200 f/4L : Canon EF 50 f/1.8 : Canon EF 85 f/1.8 : Canon Speedlite 580EX : Adorama Flashpoint Grip : Gary Fong Whaletail : Flashzebra Pixel (CP-E4 Clone)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

5,648 views & 0 likes for this thread
My daughter is a model . . .
FORUMS General Gear Talk Flash and Studio Lighting 
AAA
x 1600
y 1600

Jump to forum...   •  Rules   •  Index   •  New posts   •  RTAT   •  'Best of'   •  Gallery   •  Gear   •  Reviews   •  Member list   •  Polls   •  Image rules   •  Search   •  Password reset

Not a member yet?
Register to forums
Registered members may log in to forums and access all the features: full search, image upload, follow forums, own gear list and ratings, likes, more forums, private messaging, thread follow, notifications, own gallery, all settings, view hosted photos, own reviews, see more and do more... and all is free. Don't be a stranger - register now and start posting!


COOKIES DISCLAIMER: This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and to our privacy policy.
Privacy policy and cookie usage info.


POWERED BY AMASS forum software 2.1forum software
version 2.1 /
code and design
by Pekka Saarinen ©
for photography-on-the.net

Latest registered member is jguns
1064 guests, 189 members online
Simultaneous users record so far is 15144, that happened on Nov 22, 2018

Photography-on-the.net Digital Photography Forums is the website for photographers and all who love great photos, camera and post processing techniques, gear talk, discussion and sharing. Professionals, hobbyists, newbies and those who don't even own a camera -- all are welcome regardless of skill, favourite brand, gear, gender or age. Registering and usage is free.