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FORUMS Post Processing, Marketing & Presenting Photos The Business of Photography 
Thread started 14 Apr 2008 (Monday) 18:14
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eXc450
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Apr 14, 2008 18:14 |  #1

Hey Guys
I am trying to get my foot in the door to do some dance/stage photography. I have a contact in a dance/drama company that has seen a few of my photos and liked them. I asked them if I could use them for promotion on my website to show other dance companies when I approach them for experience.

I don't think the photos are of good enough quality to print above more than a 6x4. It was only my second time shooting a low light gig, and after the first dance they requested
no more photos, which I respected. So I only had about 10 shots taken so I didn't get the ISO etc etc correct, so they are pretty noisy. (I will post them to show you, however I
am at work, so it will have to wait until tonight)

I also suggested to them that I would be willing to donate some of my time if they have another performance to gain some experience.
I recieved the following email back from them. What do you think I should do?

Do I now need to get some type of form that says I own any photos that I take? Should I also say you can use them for whatever they want, and I will only give them the photos
that are worthy? Obviously I would want to specify it to a specific show/time frame (ie. next year I may want them to pay for my services)

What's everyones opinions?

Cheers
Chris


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Hi Chris,

Many thanks for your e-mail. The photos are fantastic and we would very much like to work with you!

· We wish you success with your Portfolio and would be happy for you to incorporate your **company name deleted** photographs.

· Should you wish to use the photographs for any other purpose other than your portfolio please submit your request by e-mail and this will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis.

· We will keep in contact with you regarding future performances for you to take further photos. Please advise your contact details.

· In return we would like to request use of these photos for our own publications/use.

Kind regards,


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tangcla
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Apr 14, 2008 18:27 |  #2

I'll get you a copy of my standard agreement, I have it at home. You can set it up and get them to sign for it.

As the photographer, especially considering you are unpaid, you should have the right to do whatever you want with the photos - i.e. for your own gallery. If, however, they are paying you for the photos, then it's understandable that they have a right to ask you not to do anything with them.

Do you think you can get much business (I mean paid) out of **company name deleted** ? If so, I wouldn't be shooting yourself in the foot by offering freebies - you'll find it very very difficult to get them to pay for your work in future. Remember, if you do freebies for one person, word will get around and others will expect the same. That's my approach - freebies only for certain situations, and I make sure that they don't go around telling that the photos were free.


Clarence
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eXc450
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Apr 14, 2008 18:38 |  #3

Thanks.

The freebie thing is why I specifically told them "donating my time to build a portfolio" not that I would work for free as such.

I don't want to shoot myself in the foot either, but saying they can use these few photos I have, then they never let me get the expereince.

I was considering saying "I would like to come to another performance, get more expereince and higher quality photos, which you could use for promotion" Something like that.

Can you put a value on the experience/portfolio? So if I do get some great shots for my portfolio etc, and they never give me any work again, would you think it's still a good deal? I mean I need something to show potential customers, no-one would hire me without evidence would they?




  
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tangcla
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Apr 14, 2008 18:44 |  #4

If it's an experience, then definitely do it. I'm just looking at it from a profiteering point of view :) I know what you mean though, it's like club photographers working for ITM for free to try to establish a name. Hell, that's how I started before I got paid work for Midnight Fashion and Good Vibrations Festival :p

If you do a few performances, enough to build a portfolio, and if they are very happy with your work, you can probably negotiate a rate with them. What most places don't realise is that photography is VERY important when it comes to marketing what they do - if you can prove your worth, photography is actually very cheap and effective advertising.


Clarence
www.tangcla.com - photography (external link)
Canon 5D Mark III x2 | 16-35mm f/2.8L | 24-70mm f/2.8L | 70-200mm f/2.8L IS
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eXc450
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Apr 14, 2008 19:05 |  #5

The reason I approached these guys, is my ex used to dance with one of the girls. I gave that girl some photos I took of her, and they were "The best dance photos we have, and we have had proffessionals at her concerts since she was 4"

So word of mouth has gotten back to this company about that (so I am lead to beleive)

So it would appear that they think my photos are incredible already, so I think they do realise the value of photos, especially in dance.

Perhaps since they are saying "we request you only use them for portfolio" I request they only use them on the web, not printed. Would that be fair?




  
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shime
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Apr 14, 2008 19:10 as a reply to  @ tangcla's post |  #6

Do it by the book or it may be difficult to deal with these people in the future.. see my pm. ;)


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tangcla
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Apr 14, 2008 19:22 |  #7

eXc450 wrote in post #5329398 (external link)
So it would appear that they think my photos are incredible already, so I think they do realise the value of photos, especially in dance.

Perhaps since they are saying "we request you only use them for portfolio" I request they only use them on the web, not printed. Would that be fair?

If they are good, they'll be willing to pay you.

Or you take your business elsewhere, for another dance studio.

;)


Clarence
www.tangcla.com - photography (external link)
Canon 5D Mark III x2 | 16-35mm f/2.8L | 24-70mm f/2.8L | 70-200mm f/2.8L IS
100mm f/2.8L IS macro | 200mm f/2.0L IS| 580EX-II x2 | 430EX-II | PocketWizard TT1/TT5

  
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eXc450
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Apr 15, 2008 05:52 |  #8

I have added the photos I sent to the company in my first post. Like I said, I am not big fan of them for obvious reasons! But they like them.

Attached in this post are some of my better examples, but I already have permission for these ones.
Cheers
Chris


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Stocky
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Apr 15, 2008 07:59 |  #9

What is the halo, especially around the hands, in those first two pictures?


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eXc450
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Apr 15, 2008 16:39 |  #10

I don't see a halo?




  
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tangcla
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Apr 15, 2008 17:03 |  #11

eXc450 wrote in post #5335549 (external link)
I don't see a halo?

nor do I :)


Clarence
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Canon 5D Mark III x2 | 16-35mm f/2.8L | 24-70mm f/2.8L | 70-200mm f/2.8L IS
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Ledrak
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Apr 15, 2008 18:00 as a reply to  @ tangcla's post |  #12

Are they paying you to take these photos? Cause they're saying they can do whatever they want with the pics you take, but you can only use them in your portfolio (unless you get specific permission from them to use them for another purpose). That's fine if they're paying you, but if not then that's a raw deal on your end.

If they're not paying you then I'd at least want equal rights to the photos. I think that's a fair trade-off for them letting you take pictures of their dance events.




  
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eXc450
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Apr 15, 2008 21:12 |  #13

Nah there was no word of payment as yet. Thus I will own the images as far as copyright goes. I am looking into a form for them to sign aswell.




  
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Stocky
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Apr 16, 2008 00:53 as a reply to  @ tangcla's post |  #14

Maybe halo is the wrong word for it, but something looks funny here:


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I like the images, I was just wondering what causes this.

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eXc450
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Apr 16, 2008 16:42 |  #15

yeah it has ghosted a bit, the settings were pretty off, like I said, I am not overly impressed with the shots.




  
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