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Thread started 27 Apr 2008 (Sunday) 00:25
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New 5D-what the heck!!!!

 
Paul ­ Pagano
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Apr 28, 2008 05:51 |  #61

wernersl wrote in post #5417190 (external link)
damnit...you beat me to it. also, look at the exif from the 20d shot. 1/500 f/7, but your 5d shot was f10 1/640! huge difference. being that there wasnt even a cloud in the sky you should have considered manual exposure. anyway...dont always rely on metering in the camera. it did what it was told to do and that was expose the sails for middle gray. enjoy.

Sunny f/16 is fine for most all situations, but if I'm not mistaken, sunny f/16 will overexpose whites in bright sunlight losing the detail (in this case in the sails). When I shoot Egrets in sunlight I shoot somewhere around a sunny f/22 rule and use the histogram.


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Wilt
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Apr 28, 2008 09:01 |  #62

TheGreatDivorce wrote in post #5418020 (external link)
It's metering in an attempt to make white a neutral grey ... which would technically be a correct exposure. Making white "white" would technically be overexposure.

No, making white white is overexposure when you pointed the meter at the white object, and it gave you the setting to render the object it sees as 18% gray. But if you had instead properly aimed the meter at some 18% gray object, making white white is correct exposure! :)


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totalbeginner
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Apr 28, 2008 09:05 as a reply to  @ Wilt's post |  #63

No, making white white is overexposure when you pointed the meter at the white object, and it gave you the setting to render the object it sees as 18% gray. But if you had instead properly aimed the meter at some 18% gray object, making white white is correct exposure! :smile:

Absolutely!


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Blue ­ S2
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Apr 28, 2008 09:12 |  #64

Look up the zone system. Ansel Adams is well known for this. Although it applies to black and white tones, I feel the concepts still apply just fine to any kind of photography as long as you think in relative brightness/darkness of the intended object. You can always find something in a scene that will be ble to identify with easily and know where to place it through this method.


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totalbeginner
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Apr 28, 2008 09:18 as a reply to  @ Blue S2's post |  #65

Look up the zone system.

I think this could also be why the OP has noticed a difference between the 5D and 20D. The 5D uses a "tighter" zone for partial metering and takes information from a smaller area in the centre of the frame.


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Karl ­ C
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Apr 28, 2008 09:18 |  #66

JWright wrote in post #5415862 (external link)
Interesting because I've always carried a constant 1/3 stop of underexposure on my 20D. This is a safeguard against blown highlights, which I seemed to have a problem with until I started underexposing.

Ditto...and now the do the same on the 30D I now use. Hell, my A-1 and AE-1P required 1/3 stop of -EC everytime too.


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wernersl
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Apr 28, 2008 09:52 |  #67

Paul Pagano wrote in post #5418789 (external link)
Sunny f/16 is fine for most all situations, but if I'm not mistaken, sunny f/16 will overexpose whites in bright sunlight losing the detail (in this case in the sails). When I shoot Egrets in sunlight I shoot somewhere around a sunny f/22 rule and use the histogram.

and that, my friend, is why god gave us histograms! sunny 16 is a guidline...a place to start when our meters are full of crap. the histogram is our instant feedback for exposure. something we never had with film. theres no excuse (in my opinion) for an entire event to be so poorly exposed. even in bright sunlight you can still see the histogram well enough to make adjustments, especially when it is that far off!

i would have evaluated the scene, noticed that the light was very consistant and taken 2 minutes beforehand to dial in a good exposure. first decide on the depth of field you want and adjust exposure for it. even if a rogue cloud came in it doesnt take much to back off shutter speed or even up ISO. he was shooting at ISO 100. outdoors he coulda gone to 400 (seeing he is shooting a 5d) while maintaining superb image quality.

anyhow, i hope the op has learned something from the constructive criticism on this thread. afterall that is what these forums are for. thanks for posting because i am sure there are many others lurking on here that learned something as well.


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wernersl
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Apr 28, 2008 09:58 |  #68

and FYI...here is the histogram for the original image. the second histogram is from a crop of the sails. looks like the meter did a wonderful job!


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Peter ­ Ho
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Apr 28, 2008 13:05 as a reply to  @ post 5412209 |  #69

Metering on the 5D has a number of choices - general or point. And talking of point there are so many points of focus to choose. As professional users we are expected to select a pre focused point for our exposure setting which we can control either by half depressing the shutter button or use the little button on the camera body for pre selected exposure. Using this means, our metering would be controllable.

Judging on the large surface of the sails which dominates the picture, surely the camera would expose for the white and hence we would have to compensate for this biasness. Your histogram and lcd viewer be a good guide and disclose the correct findings.


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limeydal
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Apr 28, 2008 18:46 as a reply to  @ post 5418020 |  #70

Thanks for all the great advice and certainly opened my options up, to test what will work best .
John J has the best insight into what I am up against.
Driving the boat is really the focus; both to get into the right position and for safety. It's a bit like driving a car while trying to text page ! Not advisable.
So you have to get a pretty set system that is quickly adaptable without too much fuss.
I am usually on the stern of a yacht "surfing" the wake or just ahead trying to match its speed (see examples from Saturday ). So whatever I use, it has to be fast.

So it is challenging and I dont have the comfort of looking long at settings and deciding if my histogram looks balanced.(will try more on this though )

All those pro's out there,just think.
( You are moving ,direction wise and up and down (being the chase boat ) the subject is moving also and tacking, which changes lighting drasticaly,( and it's a fussy target ) . So you have split seconds to take the shot ,before some jet skier cuts across in front of you (Sorry PWC users,just an example )
Not the easiest of situations , as well as trying to keep your gear dry and avoiding everyone else in the bay.
So,it's challenging but loads of fun! Something I think, as photographers we overlook sometimes. We get so involved with the "mechanics" of the shot ,that we forget to "savour" the chase .

JW thanks for the support and I hope you like the calendar.
I never think of myself as an "accomplished photographer"(or even close )
.I just like being out there and grabbing some shots that arn't available to the majority of more competant photographers. !
So ,learning as I go and happy if people get to see and like the images;
cheers Dal


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tonylong
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Apr 28, 2008 20:32 |  #71

limeydal wrote in post #5422752 (external link)
Thanks for all the great advice and certainly opened my options up, to test what will work best .
John J has the best insight into what I am up against.
Driving the boat is really the focus; both to get into the right position and for safety. It's a bit like driving a car while trying to text page ! Not advisable.
So you have to get a pretty set system that is quickly adaptable without too much fuss.
I am usually on the stern of a yacht "surfing" the wake or just ahead trying to match its speed (see examples from Saturday ). So whatever I use, it has to be fast.

So it is challenging and I dont have the comfort of looking long at settings and deciding if my histogram looks balanced.(will try more on this though )

All those pro's out there,just think.
( You are moving ,direction wise and up and down (being the chase boat ) the subject is moving also and tacking, which changes lighting drasticaly,( and it's a fussy target ) . So you have split seconds to take the shot ,before some jet skier cuts across in front of you (Sorry PWC users,just an example )
Not the easiest of situations , as well as trying to keep your gear dry and avoiding everyone else in the bay.
So,it's challenging but loads of fun! Something I think, as photographers we overlook sometimes. We get so involved with the "mechanics" of the shot ,that we forget to "savour" the chase .

JW thanks for the support and I hope you like the calendar.
I never think of myself as an "accomplished photographer"(or even close )
.I just like being out there and grabbing some shots that arn't available to the majority of more competant photographers. !
So ,learning as I go and happy if people get to see and like the images;
cheers Dal

Great shots there! Good exposures!

So, tell us: what technique did you use for your exposure? So much was tossed around, hard to tell what you chose to do!

I see you used shutter priority -- are you getting the hang of dialing in exposure compensation on the fly?


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westernminnguy
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Apr 28, 2008 21:57 as a reply to  @ post 5412209 |  #72

Question.

We're you able to see anything in the histogram that might have given you a clue it was underexposed?

Maybe checking a histogram in a boat is just wishful thinking?

Just curious.

:)


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limeydal
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Apr 28, 2008 23:59 as a reply to  @ westernminnguy's post |  #73

Tony,
these were" rescued " from last saturdays shoot, so nothing changed since then. (just adjusted in PS )
The close up shots were definately better and as people have said, the "big blue sky " partial metered on the white sail definately was the main issue.
So hope to have learnt and get better results this weekend.
Still really need to shoot in shutter priority if possible as one minute I am shooting sail boats at 6 knots and then powerboats at 50 knots. So they EC is going to be key

And yes, the histogram would have helped and I need to make the extra effort to check more often.
It is difficult in an open ,bobbing boat in full sun,but obviously would have shown the problem right off ! Just got complacent asknew what to expect from my old 20D.
Also looking into shooting RAW ,as with batch processing would enable me to turn out the jpgs quickly ,as well having more options with the trickier exposures. (just need the bigger CF card ;) )
cheers Dal




  
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Meaty0
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Apr 29, 2008 00:13 |  #74

I think the OP's original question is why the 5D underexposed the image when the 20D exposed correctly. I can only assume Dal was using the same settings and metering mode for both cameras. If that is the case there is NO reason for the two to expose the same scene differently.

It can only mean that either the 5D is faulty or accidentally set on spot metering. Dal...I just sold my 20D and bought a 5D and it exposes the scenes in a very similar manner. I found no difference in exposures between it and my 40D when shooting surf boats on a bright day.



  
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tonylong
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Apr 29, 2008 00:13 |  #75

Limeydal,

Those shots rescued nicely!

If you want to stay in Tv, the best advice would be to remember: a white sail in the sun is between 1 and 2 stops +Ev, so I'd say put your camera in spot metering, then meter for the sails every time. For sails in the sun, keep your exposure compensation at, say +1 2/3 (test this in some free time and see how it works). For colored sails and sails in shadow, of course you'd need to lower your exposure compensation by estimating how the color or shadow tone compares to medium grey.

The trick will be to lock your exposure on the white/off white/color sail and recompose. By default the * button locks exposure. If you've messed with the custom functions regarding the */Shutter buttons, that function changes. By default the shutter button will recalculate exposure when you move from the sail to something centered, so locking on the correct exposure would be to your advantage.


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