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Thread started 19 May 2008 (Monday) 21:35
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macbook pro

 
jonstewart
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May 21, 2008 13:45 |  #46

or Hackintosh!




  
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jpvaz
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May 21, 2008 14:13 |  #47

jonstewart wrote in post #5569045 (external link)
or Hackintosh!

Funny, i was just about to say the same thing... hehehe

On Macworld's website you even have instructions on how to build a Mac from PC parts, they even use one named "FrankenMac" as a comparison in tests, it belongs to Rob Griffiths wich is one of the editors on Macworld magazine.

http://www.macworld.co​m …4/building_mac_​clone.html (external link)


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sfaust
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May 21, 2008 14:44 |  #48

It's amazing that some arguments never die. But its quite predicable too. When you have two competing products which are both high quality, there will always be debates on which is better that can ever be resolved. When you have one product that is vastly inferior, the argument usually dies fairly quickly. The fact this argument is still taking place after this long is testament that they are both equals. Same with Ford vs Chevy, Canon vs Nikon, and so on.

I personally have been entrenched in Windows since windows 1.0 in the mid 80's. It's had its ups ad downs, and so has Apple. Hardware is hardware and the major players in both camps use quality components, many of which are from the same sources, and all of which has had their bouts of premature failures. No manufacturer is immune.

Just about every PC I've owned has been rock solid from the OS and hardware perspective. The issues I've had has always been related to errant applications, bad/outdated drivers from vendors, or software trying to push the limits of the machine for the best performance (games, etc).

If anyone takes the time to price out the machines for EQUAL performance and specifications, the Mac's are neck in the neck with the major players on the PC side. A MacBook pro costs $2K, but its a high end product and can not be compared against a $900 PC laptop as the specs are vastly different. But copy the specs from a MacBook Pro, overlay them on a PC laptop of comparable specs, and that PC will cost you in the same $2K range. Oranges to oranges, they are in the same price range.

I've never believed in anti-virus software, and always felt the threat was over-rated for most people. Granted, the risks are high for those doing a lot of downloads, visiting hacking sites, music sharing sites and software, etc. But I've never been hit with a virus in 20 years, and never ran anti-virus software. I just practice safe computing, hide behind a router and firewalls, and I've been fine. Granted, I install my major applications, and a handful of utilities, and just work, so the risk is lower right off the bat. Every now and then I will use a anti-virus program to search for viruses, but it never turns up anything significant. So I've never felt the need to run it on a daily basis. If I were a tinkerer, I may think differently. But as a basic business and creative (images/video) user, its never been an issue.

To me, that only leaves two important things in the decision process. Compatibility with your existing environment and software applications, and what/how you will be using the computer.

In the business world, Windows rule and integrating a non windows into the environment isn't straightforward or easy. Data sharing and compatibility are concerns, and technical expertise could be lacking.

In the creative world, Macs rule and integrating a non Mac into the environment isn't straightforward or easy. Data sharing and compatibility are concerns, and technical expertise could be lacking.

Two different worlds, but neither better than the other.

(partly typed on a 15" MacBook Pro, and Sony Viao XP Machine. Just for fun, I added a paragraph while on my BlackBerry just so I can say I did :) )


Stephen
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jonstewart
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May 21, 2008 16:03 |  #49

Thanks goodness, Stephen. I thought I was the only one there for a minute!

(PS: Good site, and great photos!)

Jon




  
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garbidz
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May 25, 2008 13:56 |  #50

jonstewart wrote in post #5568849 (external link)
I don't think games are 'way beyond ordinary people's realm'. I do agree with you that if you just want to surf, and write the odd email and document, they're perfect!

If you keep it simple, they'll work great for you - and I think that applies to well built windows boxes as well.

My mum has a Dell windows box, and whatever it's supposed deficiencies, it works fine for her!

Jon

if you want to do games, boot up the Mac as a Winmachine with Bootcamp.
I know very few adults who play computer games (or watch television).
Maybe my statistic sample is skewed.


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jonstewart
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May 26, 2008 06:01 |  #51

You have a valid point there, to some degree. The problem is that using bootcamp may appear simple, but is just the sort of thing that non technical people have a problem (especially when it doesn't work properly), when you consider the vagaries of both bootcamp and Apple's driver pack. Believe me, I have lots of experience of both.

...and I am an adult who plays games! (Wish I had more time to do so!)

All the best
Jon




  
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FLY ­ GTI
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May 26, 2008 10:25 |  #52

I bought a MacBook (non Pro) about 2-3 weeks ago. There is definitely a learning curve there. I did get a little frustrated without the right click (haven't tried with a mouse yet), and with the intuitiveness of the macbook. Almost too intuitive at times. IE trying to get smaller picture into iWeb. It gives 3 or 4 preset sizes, with no lower then 600 x 600 pixel resolution. There is now way to lower the resolution within iweb. You have to export the images, with the resolution you specify (I had a hard time figuring this out on my own).

However - even with the learning curve a Macbook is a valuable tool to me. I had a draft website up within 1 hour of powering the book on for the first time, and the final website up the next day. I know this could be done on my PC, but I don't think it could of been done within the same time frame, or as hassle free as the Mac did.

I'm hoping that this is the tip of the iceberg.




  
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noobzor
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May 26, 2008 11:02 |  #53

I just got my 15in pro the other day.

From changing from windows to osx it was a huge change, but im gettin there.

I do enjoy the little things as mentioned, alum case, awsome wifi , light sensors, quiet keyboard, nice high res screen compared to my old 17" HP.

I had gotten the 15in , 2.4ghz duo, 4gb ram , 250gb hd.


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jonstewart
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May 26, 2008 17:03 |  #54

FLY GTI wrote in post #5598273 (external link)
I did get a little frustrated without the right click

Set your multi touch touchpad to 'two finger tap' right mouse button in system preferences. Much better than the mouse!

(Mine is two finger tap == right mouse button, ie context menu, and two finger drag == scroll. This is great since it scrolls both horizontally and vertically, even when using Vista through Parallels.)

Hope this helps
Jon




  
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flyingwolf
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May 26, 2008 18:45 |  #55

cory1848 wrote in post #5560037 (external link)
By the time the average consumer upgrades everything to similar specs, they are looking at comparable price lines...

There is a lot of good back and forth on this thread but this item form page one just had to be commented on.

I recently built my new work machine, its a Quad core, with 8 gigs of RAM, 2 Dual DVI 1 gig video cards powering two 22 inch monitors.

Its the most powerful machine we have in our house and only comes in second to the demo rig we use as work which cost 7k to build (including the cost of the 50 inch plasma).

Total cost for all of that performance? 779 dollars.

Find me a quad core mac with 8 gigs of matched RAM for under 1000 (and don't forget two 22 inch monitors with a graphics card for each).

While I agree that Macs have good specs and are good computers, they are simply no match for a good well built PC.


Semper Fi.
Little box that holds light.

  
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EnronRocks
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May 26, 2008 19:31 |  #56

anorman wrote in post #5557586 (external link)
I am finally making the switch. I ordered my macbook pro today. Can anyone tell me the loves and hates of it

NO WAI!!!!!!!! I ordered one a few days ago, what did you get? The 15 or 17 inch one?

I love my iMac, but there is no way anyone can sit and tell me that they are comparable in prices. A MacBook is way too expansive compared to a Windows laptop prebuilt, and the same goes for anything Apple makes. You are not in anyway paying for the quality of a product when you purchase a Apple product, you are purchasing a lifestyle.

I will admit thought I do love my lil 20" iMac, and I am sure I will love my MacBook pro.


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sfaust
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May 26, 2008 19:33 |  #57

flyingwolf wrote in post #5600841 (external link)
I recently built my new work machine, its a Quad core, with 8 gigs of RAM, 2 Dual DVI 1 gig video cards powering two 22 inch monitors....

....Total cost for all of that performance? 779 dollars......

Find me a quad core mac with 8 gigs of matched RAM for under 1000 (and don't forget two 22 inch monitors with a graphics card for each).... .

Keep in mind you are comparing apples to oranges here, unless of course you are offering those systems for sale ready to go at $800 with 1 year warranty. If so, sign me up for 5,000 for my initial order, with more orders to follow!!! ;)

The Apple was designed, built, integrated, and delivered ready to go for you, just plug it in, turn it on, and you're on the internet in minutes.

Your $800 machine is a box of parts. You need to add labor for design, assembly, integration, setup of drivers, software, etc,. Not the same out of the box experience, nor within the range of the average PC user.

To compare favorably, you need to walk into a retail computer store and walk out with ready to go machines, one from Apple, one from say Sony, Dell, Gateway, HP, or similar, with equal specs. That is a fair comparison, and I guarantee you won't find a $800 computer that can hold a match to a $3K Mac Pro system. And if you do this exercise, you'll find they are very much in line with each other price wise.

BTW, $800 just for the parts is an outrageous deal, especially when it includes two 22" monitors, 2 graphics cards, 8GB memory, hard disk space, power supply, case, motherboard, and so on. Can you give us the low down on what parts you used, and the vendors. I've got an aging PC that I'd love to spruce up for $800 to a quad core, 8GB, dual monitor machine as a backup to my main editing system. It would be a great use of $800. I would have expected it to cost far more, so I never really looked into it. But I will now.

Something we all should thnk about two. The OP asked about what we love or hate about making the switch. It seems we are just going down the patch of no return in the PC vs Mac debate.


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Steve ­ Beck
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May 26, 2008 19:35 |  #58

anorman wrote in post #5557586 (external link)
I am finally making the switch. I ordered my macbook pro today. Can anyone tell me the loves and hates of it

Bet you wish you didn't ask this question with all the Gates lackys. Nice choice you will love it. i have yet to find anything i do not like since seeing the light and dumping windows and moving on to a machines that is what all computer should be like.


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Steve ­ Beck
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May 26, 2008 19:41 |  #59

This is typical. Must not have actually shelled out the money to BUY windows. it is easy to built a PC with $50 MB, $75 video card, $40 case to screw it all in to, $70 hd etc. Apples to oranges you are trying to compare here.

flyingwolf wrote in post #5600841 (external link)
There is a lot of good back and forth on this thread but this item form page one just had to be commented on.

I recently built my new work machine, its a Quad core, with 8 gigs of RAM, 2 Dual DVI 1 gig video cards powering two 22 inch monitors.

Its the most powerful machine we have in our house and only comes in second to the demo rig we use as work which cost 7k to build (including the cost of the 50 inch plasma).

Total cost for all of that performance? 779 dollars.

Find me a quad core mac with 8 gigs of matched RAM for under 1000 (and don't forget two 22 inch monitors with a graphics card for each).

While I agree that Macs have good specs and are good computers, they are simply no match for a good well built PC.


Gear List? My gear is bigger than yours? Just shoot have fun...

  
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sfaust
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May 26, 2008 19:46 |  #60

anorman wrote in post #5557586 (external link)
I am finally making the switch. I ordered my macbook pro today. Can anyone tell me the loves and hates of it

I guess we should actually get back to the original question.

Here is my experience from using them both over the years, and most recently adding some new MAC's with OS X to our studio.

Short answer is I really like them both. Both are rock solid if treated correctly. Both have issues that bother me. But I would be happy with either one if forced upon me for one reason or another. I guess that puts me right on the fence as a Appindows lover. :)

Price wise, I found the MAC's very competitive with comparable PC's. When I spec'd them out for the same benchmarks performance wise, then matched up the memory, hard disk space, screen technology and size, I found the prices right on par with anything the PC world had to offer.

I've been pushing Windows hard with digital imaging and video for the last 10 years, and haven been living on the tier just below the leading edge. I typically don't buy the latest and greatest, but grab the next model down. I don't switch to a new OS until it been out for a year, and has had a couple updates to get the bugs out. This strategy has worked well for me and always resulted in very stable windows platforms.

Reliability wise, in the 20 years I've been using Windows (yes, I used version 1.0), I've only had issues with WindowsMe. And I had so many issues with that OS over the period of a year, I finally threw the laptop off my upstairs deck against a stone wall (long story why-Sony tied ME to hardware and no drivers for anything else basically), then went out a bought a new machine. Live was good again :) None were without issues, but neither has my MAC experience been either. Stability wise, I find them neck in neck at the finish line.

All my other machines were fairly high end, but all very rock solid. When I got a machine, I would format the disk and install a fresh installation of windows, update the drivers, then install my apps. This dumped all the bloat ware, and made sure I have a clean install. Once everything was working, I made a bootable backup, and started working. Everything was solid and worked fine. I would update drivers and applications as needed. Life was good.

On my home machine, with multiple users, downloading games, apps, adding this, removing that, changing this, changing that, new hardware, swapping, failed install attempts, powering off without shutting down, etc, No surprise it had issues, but I can't really blame the OS in such a hostile environment. And I know so many home users that do the same, and have issues with Windows. I truly believe users do more harm to their system, then the OS or viruses themselves. And I can't tell you how many times people complain that they got a virus, and after talking with them about it found its user error, old drivers, bad installs, or something entirely different. People seem really quick to blame it on a virus, especially if they aren't technically inclined.

But even with all that going on, and not running any anti-virus software, I've never had any signifiant issue with viruses. I didn't download things blindly off the internet. I ran from behind a router/firewall. Used a good spam filter, and didn't open e-mail attachments, macros, etc, without knowing the source. Thats worked for me for the last 2x years (my first PC was a IBM PC-AT-dating myself big time).

Ok, some things I don't like about OS X.

The Finder is 'stupid' compared to Windows Explorer. OMG, give me Explorer on the MAC. I really hated it until I found a replacement called Path Finder. Path Finder is very similar to Explorer, and much better in other ways. But applications still use the Finder dialog box for dealing with files, so I'm still stuck with using it. Its usable, but come on. Why would I have to resize my window and column every time I open the Finder dialogs! Geezzze!

One major thing that bugs me is that when you are running two monitors, the application menus that normally follow the application on the Windows Title Bar doesn't with the Mac. On the Mac, it it always at the top of the main monitor. Thus if you drag an application window to the second monitor and want to use any of the applications menus, you have to mouse all the way over to the first monitor at the very far top left. Doing this often to access an applications menus is really annoying. Some mMAC uses hail that saying they like how they always know where to find it. Heck, I felt the same way on windows, as it was always right at the top of the applications window where you are working! Bingo!

Overall, the OS just feels more restrictive in how you access and use it. Ie, in windows you can resize the window by dragging on any window edge, where in OS X you have to grab the lower right corner. Just one example, but I find stuff like this throughout the OS. They could make live so much easier for us with some user interface tweaking. If feels like they take the approach that my way is best, jump on board. Rather than understanding everyone works differently, and lets give the user more control over their environment.

Apple makes things look cool! Nice. But many times as the expense of ergonomics or functionality. First thing that went was the cool very slim, tiny keyboard, and that mouse with only one button. Right clicking is so convenient and efficient that I needed a 'real' mouse :)

Lack of software variety. You can find most utilities you want, especially with popular items, but you are limited. I found apps to everything I needed, expect for one. SnagIt. An awesome screen capture program. While I can capture screens on the MAC, its no where close to what SnagIt gives you. I couldn't find much for a number of other software I had which was nice, but not really required. So I have limited my self on the 'secondary' software, but I can live without it.

Some things I really do like;

Plug and Play. Really! I opened the box, connected up all the cables, printer, external disks, wacom tablet, etc. This was a test. I powered up the brand new machine and guess what. Everything was configured and ready to work. I was on the internet, the tablet worked, things printed, external drives showed up, and so on. Granted, installing drivers will give some of those things additional features or functions, but it just worked! Try that on your next Windows machine!

Design again, as a plus. When it doesn't interfere with ergonomics, a sweet design is nothing short of satisfying. I haven't seen anything on the PC side that is as stylish and clean as the Apple designed products. As a creative professional, I appreciate the clean styling and lines. It looks great just sitting in the office :)

I'll think of more, but thats all I have at the moment.


Stephen
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