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Thread started 19 May 2008 (Monday) 21:35
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macbook pro

 
sfaust
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May 27, 2008 18:19 |  #76

I don't think anyone is calling you a liar, but there does seem to be some disbelief.

So far we have....

Memory 2 2GB sticks for $98, 8GB = $198
(what brand should I be looking for?)

22" monitors @$150 each for $300
(brand of model number?)

That's half the $799 you mentioned you built an equivalent MacPro spec'd PC for. Even if you just priced the remaining parts at $50 a piece, unheard of pricing, you would exceed the $800 by a large margin.

Motherboard
Processors
2 video cards w/1GB each
Case
Power Supply
Dual Ethernet card/1000 Base-T
Hard disk 320GB/sATA/7200
Audio card
Keyboard, mouse

Under those circumstances, you shouldn't be surprised to find skeptics. But hey, list out your components, specs, cost, manufacturers and throw a little pooh pooh in their direction ;)


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cory1848
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May 27, 2008 21:38 |  #77

flyingwolf wrote in post #5606825 (external link)
So what your saying is your calling me a liar, thanks.

As I said I shopped around for a few months and purchased the parts at different times.

The memory I found for a great deal on Newegg, 2 2 gig sticks for only 98 dollars after rebate (which came in the male 2 days ago). Purchased 3 sets of those in fact, 8 gigs for me, and gave the other 4 gigs to my wife who has XP pro (though 32 bit windows cannot see the full four gigs).

The machine runs perfectly and so far with intense breaking using Sandra I haven't had a single error. The original audio card I bought to supplement the on board audio did cause me problems at first, once it was switched out for a new unit it has been rock stable.

I purchased from Newegg.com, geeks.com, monoprice.com and my local Microcenter Mall. The two monitors were the bulk of the price at 150 each after rebate.

All parts are rated high quality and have been through stress testing.

And again, thanks allot for calling me a liar, all you need is a bit of smarts and you too can save yourself allot of money. But if you want to spend 2500 for what I paid under 1k for, have fun, its your money.

That 8 gigs of memory I guarantee you wont run in a mac. There is a reason apple memory is expensive, because its configured to the machine. Throw a bunch of crap in it and it will have problems....maybe not right away but I can guess you will be replacing it.

Again, as I said toward the beginning of the thread, Apples run very smoothly due to the fact that every piece of hardware is configured to work with the system for the best performance. You dont take a Ferrari and start putting Walmart parts on it and expect the same performance...

For monitors...I have $160 22" monitor as well, works good for what I need, however is doesnt even compare to the apple version...Sit in front of one all day doing graphic work and you can see the difference.

Not doubting your thriftiness, however, until you have the experience of both machines in a heavy production environment, you wont see any difference...


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jonstewart
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May 28, 2008 02:56 |  #78

Nobody's calling anybody a liar. I think there's a misunderstanding about the performance of the MacPro's.

I'll reiterate; I bought a Mac Pro because it was the CHEAPEST way of buying a workstation class PC.

The memory used in MacPro's is for Xeon processor based machines, 800MHz DDR2 ECC fully buffered DIMM (FB-DIMM) memory

Here's the cheapest 8Gb pack at newegg http://www.newegg.com …aspx?Item=N82E1​6820349021 (external link)

as you can see it's $599 alone! Now let's see that computer for under $1000??




  
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jonstewart
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May 28, 2008 03:00 |  #79

cory1848 wrote in post #5608488 (external link)
There is a reason apple memory is expensive, because its configured to the machine. Throw a bunch of crap in it and it will have problems....maybe not right away but I can guess you will be replacing it.

That's not quite right, Cory. The Apple memory is exactly the same as any other memory used for workstation class PC's and server's. It's not configured at all to the machine. I have some Dell Memory running in my MacPro, because it was a lot cheaper than buying memory straight from Apple (but it is of the same spec).

Anything other specification of memory won't work, so this cheaper memory is out; I don't mean it'll be slower: it simply won't work. The computer would throw an error on startup, even if you could fit it in the mem slot! MacBookPro's however, the memory can be bought very cheap, as it's only standard memory (recently 4Gb memory for my MBP was £60($120), whereas the 4Gb for the MacPro was about £600 ($1200). Your prices are much cheaper than here in the UK!)

On the subject of monitors; I have the Dell 2407, which is of the same quality as the Apple, but a bit cheaper - still not peanuts, but a bit cheaper. I can't imagine wanting to run any high end pc on a 'cheap' monitor!


Hope this helps
Jon




  
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cory1848
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May 28, 2008 07:00 |  #80

jonstewart wrote in post #5609657 (external link)
That's not quite right, Cory. The Apple memory is exactly the same as any other memory used for workstation class PC's and server's. It's not configured at all to the machine. I have some Dell Memory running in my MacPro, because it was a lot cheaper than buying memory straight from Apple (but it is of the same spec).

Anything other specification of memory won't work, so this cheaper memory is out; I don't mean it'll be slower: it simply won't work. The computer would throw an error on startup, even if you could fit it in the mem slot! MacBookPro's however, the memory can be bought very cheap, as it's only standard memory (recently 4Gb memory for my MBP was £60($120), whereas the 4Gb for the MacPro was about £600 ($1200). Your prices are much cheaper than here in the UK!)

On the subject of monitors; I have the Dell 2407, which is of the same quality as the Apple, but a bit cheaper - still not peanuts, but a bit cheaper. I can't imagine wanting to run any high end pc on a 'cheap' monitor!


Hope this helps
Jon

By configured I mean Apple requires a certain memory for best performance. All because something is the same spec doesnt mean its the same quality. Now, with that said... I would expect workstation class memory to be up to par, however, I dont think thats what flyingwolf got, at least not for $49 for a 2 gig stick. How much was 2 gigs of your workstation class memory? Last time I checked it was a lot more than $49 (US). Its been awhile since I bought memory, so I could be wrong.
Less than quality memory will work in some instances...its not necessarily a work or doesnt work type of thing... It will work then unexpectedly will crash, throw Kernal panics, slow performance, etc... First thing Apple techs check for when a machine is brought in for problems is what memory is being used. That usually clears problems up right away when that is fixed.


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May 28, 2008 07:10 |  #81

There are several places where one can purchase quality memory for any Mac that is priced significantly below that charged by Apple. One example is Crucial. 4G (2 x 2) for a little over $100. I've personally used their products for both Apple and PC based systems without any issues.


http://www.crucial.com …2%20Duo%20%2815​.4-inch%29 (external link)


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hitmanh
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May 28, 2008 07:59 |  #82

cory1848 wrote in post #5610232 (external link)
By configured I mean Apple requires a certain memory for best performance. All because something is the same spec doesnt mean its the same quality. Now, with that said... I would expect workstation class memory to be up to par, however, I dont think thats what flyingwolf got, at least not for $49 for a 2 gig stick. How much was 2 gigs of your workstation class memory? Last time I checked it was a lot more than $49 (US). Its been awhile since I bought memory, so I could be wrong.
Less than quality memory will work in some instances...its not necessarily a work or doesnt work type of thing... It will work then unexpectedly will crash, throw Kernal panics, slow performance, etc... First thing Apple techs check for when a machine is brought in for problems is what memory is being used. That usually clears problems up right away when that is fixed.

The memory modules used in mac pros are standard off the shelf components. They are not special in anyway, as is the rest of the hardware (all made by manufacturers that make standard PC components). There are a lot of good reasons for using a mac, but the hardware is no different to that in standard PCs.


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cory1848
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May 28, 2008 08:21 |  #83

hitmanh wrote in post #5610463 (external link)
The memory modules used in mac pros are standard off the shelf components. They are not special in anyway, as is the rest of the hardware (all made by manufacturers that make standard PC components). There are a lot of good reasons for using a mac, but the hardware is no different to that in standard PCs.

Go back and read the thread...and you will find where I stated how they are different... IF the hardware was not any different, why cant you install Windows on a Mac as the main OS? Its the same reason why you cant go get your regular Asus board and through it in a mac...Sure you could hack it, but then your asking for a machine that has the potential to fail...


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cory1848
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May 28, 2008 08:26 |  #84

tbsteph wrote in post #5610261 (external link)
There are several places where one can purchase quality memory for any Mac that is priced significantly below that charged by Apple. One example is Crucial. 4G (2 x 2) for a little over $100. I've personally used their products for both Apple and PC based systems without any issues.


http://www.crucial.com …2%20Duo%20%2815​.4-inch%29 (external link)



Apparently laptop memory is a lot cheaper than desktop... Crucial is a good company, as is Kingston... This is what I was comparing things too..

http://www.crucial.com …eries%29&pl=App​le&cat=RAM (external link)


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jonstewart
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May 28, 2008 09:52 |  #85

cory1848 wrote in post #5610598 (external link)
Apparently laptop memory is a lot cheaper than desktop... Crucial is a good company, as is Kingston... This is what I was comparing things too..

http://www.crucial.com …eries%29&pl=App​le&cat=RAM (external link)

I think that was my point; MBP memory is bog standard; Not so the MacPro memory, which is what we're talking about.

(and Cory, we're singing off the same hymnsheet here, in case my post doesn't make that obvious!)
Jon




  
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OdiN1701
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May 28, 2008 11:27 |  #86
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Macs are overpriced....

Standard MacPro - $2800

Now what can I get in a PC for $2800?

Here is what I configured for $2775 (no monitor...not counting shipping...same with the Mac)

Dual 2.83GHz Quad-Core Xeons - just like the mac
Motherboard with integrated RAID and SAS (Mac you have to add RAID)
8GB RAM (vs. the paltry 2GB in the Mac....come on...2GB with dual quad cores? Why?)
512MB Video Card (Same card as the mac, but twice the memory)
Dual 500GB HD's in RAID for backup - the mac has a single 320GB
20X DVD w/ LightScribe (vs. the Mac's 16X)

You get much more value for your money with the PC.


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cory1848
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May 28, 2008 11:51 |  #87

OdiN1701 wrote in post #5611624 (external link)
Macs are overpriced....

Standard MacPro - $2800

Now what can I get in a PC for $2800?

Here is what I configured for $2775 (no monitor...not counting shipping...same with the Mac)

Dual 2.83GHz Quad-Core Xeons - just like the mac
Motherboard with integrated RAID and SAS (Mac you have to add RAID)
8GB RAM (vs. the paltry 2GB in the Mac....come on...2GB with dual quad cores? Why?)
512MB Video Card (Same card as the mac, but twice the memory)
Dual 500GB HD's in RAID for backup - the mac has a single 320GB
20X DVD w/ LightScribe (vs. the Mac's 16X)

You get much more value for your money with the PC.

Yup, all that and you still get to deal with Bill Gates lovely operating system....


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OdiN1701
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May 28, 2008 12:02 |  #88
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cory1848 wrote in post #5611750 (external link)
Yup, all that and you still get to deal with Bill Gates lovely operating system....

What's wrong with it? I've been using MS operating systems since DOS. Been through Windows 3, NT4, Win95, Win98, WinMe (Never used that one on my personal system), Win2k, WinXP, and now I'm using Vista Ultimate.

I have not had any issues with the OS for the most part. Sure there are quirks here and there. But since I've been using Vista, I have had no issues whatsoever. It works great and is much faster than XP from what I have seen.

I have used the MacOS and Apple systems as well and they are no better. They crash too. But the only crashes that I have ever had with my PC's were related to hardware or drivers for hardware. Specifically bad memory (easy fix, replaced by manufacturer) and piss poor Creative drivers causing issues. I've never had Vista crash on me yet. XP only due to bad RAM. Otherwise ran perfect.


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flyingwolf
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May 28, 2008 12:06 |  #89

Ok folks lets break it down.

After rebates, Monitors were 150 each, 300 USD.
Monitors are 22 inch Sceptre X22WG's.
http://www.sce2ptre.co​m …ions/spec_x22wg​_1080p.htm (external link)
With the rebates it was basically buy one get one free. Couldn't pass it up.

Case, Had a case here that I used, so that was of no expense.

Mobo, MSI K9A2 Platimun,
Combined with AMD Phenom 9500 2.2 GHz Quad core.
Cost of 308.99.
(Rebate of 65 USD brings the price to 243.99).

Memory, 4 gigs of G.Skill, DDR2 800, regular price of 129, instant rebate of 40, price, 89.99. Then Manufactuers rebate of 40. Total price 49.99 x2 = 99.98.

Video Cards, 2 Powercooler AX3650's. 89.99 with a 25 mail in Rebate. Total price 64.99 x2 = 128.98.

So, add it up.

300 + 243.99 + 99.98 + 128.98 = 772.95.

I already own a copy of Vista Ultimate but if I wanted to purchase another I could get it from Microcenter Mall for 150. System builders price.

The memory is matched memory, ECC and very stable.
Memtest showed no errors after 24 hours, after 48 hours of burn in the mobo, cpu and video card showed no errors.

I am considering this machine rock solid.

Oh I almost forgot the audio card.
Because the first one was messed up they sent me a replacement. However they never charged my card again after the refund. So I called and asked what was up, they told me the price had been taken care of. Perks of working in the audio industry I guess.


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May 28, 2008 13:37 |  #90

I would be a bit careful about the "value for money" -statement.
For me, value for money is that I plug in a machine, turn it on and the machine churns what it is supposed to. French fries, espresso coffee, spam, etc.

To me, having to configure something is a negative value.
"Better value" in computing for me would be pretty much what Mac is giving to me nowadays. I do not mind the price if the product is what I want.

This is how free market economy works and I sort of like it.
I gladly let others hunt for exotic high-end components and get their thrills when their creation goes "hummmmm" in a big way.

It is their value judgement, I am not contesting it.
Just let me have my Mac.


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