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Thread started 28 May 2008 (Wednesday) 16:05
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Ran_photography
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May 28, 2008 16:05 |  #1

I know there are PLENTY of this sort of thread, but I need some information.

I'll be going on a 21 day trip across the states. going to such places as Grand Canyon, Mt. Rushmore, Badlands, Yellowstone, And a few others. I need to know what kind of ND grads I will need. And what i mean is what stop ND grads? Hard of soft edge? or Both? Also I'll be shooting with the 10-22 for probably all my shots, should I get a circular polarizer for this lens, or should i be worried about the blue blob in the sky created by such a wide lens and just go for the square polarizer? Any help on this would be fantastic.


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kenyc
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May 28, 2008 20:35 |  #2

Well, the 10-22 will definitely create a gradient across the sky with at polarizer when using it at 10mm, but not so much and 22, still there are times when the polarizer will make the shot much better as long as you are careful. I don't know much about ND or graduated NDs, but need to get one myself. Will look forward to your results.

KAC


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tbird
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May 29, 2008 08:16 |  #3

Be careful when using a circular filter on a wide angle lens as you will probably wind up with vignetting. A Cokin filter might work to your advantage, though.


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argyle
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May 29, 2008 08:57 as a reply to  @ tbird's post |  #4

The B+W F-Pro CPL does not vignette on the 10-22...some have also reported that one of the Hoya CPL's does not vignette as well. If the OP does a search, there are a couple of threads in either the Lens forum or the Accessories forum, and maybe even both.


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kenyc
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May 29, 2008 09:07 |  #5

Generally the "thin" cp's will work okay on the 10-22, but the standard polarizers will vignette in the 10mm area. Even so as I mentioned the lens is so wide you will often get a gradient across the sky (depends of course on the specifics of the composition).

KAC


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Ran_photography
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May 29, 2008 16:24 as a reply to  @ kenyc's post |  #6

Thanks everyone. There are square polarizers aren't there? Where do i get the B+W F-Pro Cpl at?


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JSimonian
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May 29, 2008 16:39 |  #7

With polarizers, I think most (or all) of the rotating type are round. Hence, CPL, Circular Polarizing Lens. Even the Cokin one is a round lens with an adge attached to allow you to rotate it while it is in the filter holder. I believe that standard (one direction) polarizing lenses are available, but usually they are for reducing light over the whole image to allow for slower shutter speeds in brighter light than it would normally aloow IE: waterfalls and such.

Hope this helps.




  
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eddarr
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May 29, 2008 17:20 |  #8

I thought the straight polarizers were only for film and circular only for digital.

For the ND's it is best to have a selection at hand. I would have a 1,2 and 3 stop soft and a 1 and 2 stop hard. This allows you to dial in for each situation. You can stack the filters in the holders to balance the light for each. You can get all of the above in Cokin pro size for about $100. They are not as good as Lee but you can decide if the additional $500 is worth it to you. You can also look at a reverse GND filter (expensive) but it helps tremendously for sunsets.


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Ran_photography
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May 29, 2008 18:47 as a reply to  @ eddarr's post |  #9

What is a reverse GND filter? And I like the sound of which ones you think i should get. Where do i purchase them? Along with a 77mm diameter adapter ring for holding them?


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argyle
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May 29, 2008 19:24 as a reply to  @ Ran_photography's post |  #10

Basically, three are three "must have" filters for landscape photography. For someone just getting started, preferably in this order: Circular polarizer (CPL), Graduated Neutral Density (GND), and Neutral Density (ND). Some may argue that GND's aren't really necessary since you can take multiple exposures and blend afterwards, but my preference is to get it right in the camera to minimize the PP time later.

CPL: nice sky effects, reduces/minimizes/enha​nces glare on reflective surfaces such as water, foliage etc, enhances saturation, plus others. Can also act as a 2-stop ND filter, depending on how much you dial in.

GND: used to balance the exposure between differently lit portions of a scene. Its strongly recommended that you stay away from the round GND filters and stick with the rectangular type.

ND: used to reduce shutter speed in brightly lit situations by cutting the amount of light reaching the sensor (silky water effects, smooth out water, etc). Other uses as well, but this is the typical use by landscape shooters. Just the opposite of the GND: these, you're better off with round filters as opposed to square or rectangular. If you stack square ND filters in a holder, there are too many areas for light to get between the filters and cause exposure problems. Go for round ND's.

For GND's, most people start with a 2-stop soft and a 3-stop hard filter. You can add to them with a 2-stop hard and a 3-stop soft if you wish. I'd recommend Hitech filters as a good, middle-of-the-road filter. I've been using Hitech for years without any problems. Also, I'd go with the Lee filter holder as opposed to a Cokin P wide angle or the Cokin Z-Pro...its just a much better design. In the southwest, you will come across the need to stack GND filters...the Cokin P only has a single slot and just won't cut it for stacking.

For ND's, I carry a 3-stop and a 6-stop. Since a good CPL can do double duty as a 1 or 2-stop ND, no need to buy these. If I need somewhere between 3 and 6 stops of reduction, I can use the 3-stop and stack the CPL for additional stops. More than 5, I then have the 6-stop. With these two filters, and the CPL, I can get anywhere from 1-11 stops of reduction. Of course, depending on your focal length, some vignetting can occur when stacking these filters...but I'd rather get the great shot first and crop later than not get it at all.

For the round ND's and the CPL, my filter of choice is B+W, but Hoya is a good brand as well. You can get excellent prices on B+W and Hoya filters here:

http://www.hvstar.net (external link)

Just be aware that they're located in Hong Kong, so shipping may take longer than normal. You'll need to allow for that if you order from them.

For GND filters and holders, here's another link to a very reputable dealer:

http://www.2filters.co​m (external link)

Reverse GND's carry a pretty hefty price. Basically, a reverse GND is dark at the center of the filter and fades out as it reaches the top of the filter, where a typical GND is darker at the top and fades towards the center. If you have the money to spend on it, that's up to you. But for the price of a single reverse GND, you can probably pick up three standard Hitech GND filters. These alone will take a bit of practice to get used to...the reverse just adds another thing on top of all that.

Sounds like a great trip...good luck.


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Ran_photography
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May 29, 2008 20:05 as a reply to  @ argyle's post |  #11

Wow argyle. thank you so much. You just helped a TON. Also one more question, should i pick up a haze reduction filter? Or is this unnecessary?


Canon rebel Xti
Canon 60mm macro, 70-300mm, 10-22mm, 50mm 1.8, 18-55 kit lens
Ryan Nelson, 18
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Ran_photography
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May 29, 2008 20:13 as a reply to  @ Ran_photography's post |  #12

haha 2filters.com is kinda hard to navigate. Where do i find Hi-tech filters?


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Canon 60mm macro, 70-300mm, 10-22mm, 50mm 1.8, 18-55 kit lens
Ryan Nelson, 18
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Ran_photography
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May 29, 2008 20:16 as a reply to  @ Ran_photography's post |  #13

I think I'm leaving on the 8th of june. if i order the grads now will they get here in time?


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argyle
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May 29, 2008 20:41 |  #14

Ran_photography wrote in post #5621827 (external link)
Wow argyle. thank you so much. You just helped a TON. Also one more question, should i pick up a haze reduction filter? Or is this unnecessary?

That depends. I use them, but I don't keep them permanently on my lenses. I use them only if conditions call for one (blowing dirt/sand, water spray, etc). Since you'll be in the southwest and elsewhere, you will be exposed to sand and dust, so it would be a good idea to have a UV/protector along just in case (but if you use one, don't stack the CPL on top of it...remove the UV first).

Ran_photography wrote in post #5621867 (external link)
haha 2filters.com is kinda hard to navigate. Where do i find Hi-tech filters?

Click on the catalog link on the left side of the page, then scfroll towards the bottom right and you should see a link for Hitech filters. Here's the page link...just scroll down to the 4x5 ND Gradual Filters table. You don't necessarily need the Hitech holder and 77mm adapter ring...the Lee holder and adapter ring will work just fine with the Hitech filters.

http://www.2filter.com​/prices/Hitech/Hitech4​x4.html (external link)

Ran_photography wrote in post #5621882 (external link)
I think I'm leaving on the 8th of june. if i order the grads now will they get here in time?

That you'll have to ask the folks at 2filter. Give them a call on the phone...they're very helpful and I'm sure that they can express ship the filters if they're all in stock. I doubt very much that Hvstar will be able to meet your deadline...you may have to bite the bullet for the CPL and ND's and get from a US-based dealer.


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Randy1213
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May 29, 2008 21:02 as a reply to  @ argyle's post |  #15

I think the reverse GNDs are a must for sunsets and sunrises. I use the hard 2-stop and soft 3-stop. I use the same for my regular GNDs. I think it's best to use a soft 3-stop, so the line isn't so obvious. I don't think that's quite as important with a 2-stop. I like the Singh-Rays, but they are pricey. But their website also gives excellent information about filters. I also pack 2-stop and 3-stop circular NDs.

You're in for an excellent adventure!


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