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Thread started 07 Sep 2008 (Sunday) 16:21
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How do you back up all your photos?

 
HankScorpio
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Sep 09, 2008 11:36 |  #46

I use RAID 1 for live stuff and older stuff now goes on Blu-Ray, previously DVD.


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Scout7id
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Sep 09, 2008 13:44 |  #47

HankScorpio wrote in post #6272664 (external link)
I use RAID 1 for live stuff and older stuff now goes on Blu-Ray, previously DVD.

What's a good, inexpensive source for Blu-ray media. I know you get what you pay for, but I don't want too much if I don't have to.

Don


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HankScorpio
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Sep 09, 2008 13:58 |  #48

Can't help you in the US but I use www.ukdvdr.com (external link) for Verbatim brand re-writables.


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S-S
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Sep 09, 2008 14:12 as a reply to  @ post 6267044 |  #49

i have a live copy of my photo work on active hard disks which are basically always on, and a stored copy on DVD as well in case anything happens to the disks - these dvds hardly ever get touched, to keep them pristine

i will prolly transfer their contents to verbatim gold archival discs shortly, but i always keep a live copy so i can access them easily




  
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tim
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Sep 09, 2008 16:49 |  #50

HankScorpio wrote in post #6272664 (external link)
I use RAID 1 for live stuff and older stuff now goes on Blu-Ray, previously DVD.

Excellent... now instead of losing 700MB or 4GB of data when a disk goes bad you lose 50GB!

Seriously though, CD and DVD were fragile enough, and the data is packed much more densely on Blu Ray. If it gets scratched that scratch covers far more data. This suggests the media will be less robust than the already kinda flakey DVDs.


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flyingwolf
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Sep 09, 2008 17:11 |  #51

Hey Tim, your great at telling everyone how much their solutions suck.
Since it is obvious you would have the best.
What do you use?


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Wilt
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Sep 09, 2008 17:15 |  #52

flyingwolf, tim is merely stating the reality of the fragility of optical storage media, the exact same message as I have been telling for years! Magnetic storage is the only TIME PROVEN media (>50 years proven), the accelerated life testing of optical is merely theory, and we have seen multiple instances of in reality the fragility of CD and DVD data in spite of careful storage!

This article even draws into question the longevity of magnetics, contrary to real world experience to date...

http://www.uky.edu/~ki​ernan/DL/hedstrom.html (external link)

According to this artical by the Optical Storage Technology Association, the UNRECORDED CD life is 5-10 years. It doubletalks about recorded shelf life!

http://www.osta.org/te​chnology/cdqa13.htm (external link)


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tim
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Sep 09, 2008 17:54 |  #53

flyingwolf wrote in post #6274714 (external link)
Hey Tim, your great at telling everyone how much their solutions suck.
Since it is obvious you would have the best.
What do you use?

Any solution that relies on optical media will fail. It's not if, it's when. Sometimes it's one year, sometimes it's 5 years, sometimes it's 20 years. But it's inevitable. Magnetic storage will also fail eventually, but it takes a lot longer.

My backup system is fairly simple: all my images are stored on at least two hard drives, and one of the hard drives is stored offsite. The hard drives are both spun up at least once every three months.

In practice I have two drives offsite: one's a mirror of my working drive, one's an archive drive that images are moved too after the event has been completely processed.

Here's a more detailed workflow, based around weddings (30 per year):
- Take photos. Go home, copy the cards to hard drive. I don't erase the cards until I have an offsite backup. If I have another wedding the next day I copy the RAW files to a small portable hard drive and keep it in my car until I can get it to my offsite location.
- After every major event I get my offsite storage back and I synchronise my hard drives, using robocopy (free from Microsoft). This means I have data on my working drive and an offsite drive.
- Images are processed, renamed, and duds are deleted. I synchronise the data every now and then, so offsite has recent data. Since my sync program doesn't ever delete data from the offsite drive I will manaully delete the old files after I've renamed them on my working drive.
- Once i'm finished with an event I convert the CR2 files to DNG, and JPG. The DNG and JPG are stored on my offsite archive drive. The CR2 is moved to a drive that I keep onsite but not plugged into my PC - it's in a drawer. This just gets old images out of my way and keeps my working drives free. I do this in batches, the DNG converter I leave running overnight because converting 5000 images takes a while.

I think my offsite and onsite offline drives are 250-400GB at the moment. I don't want to have to mess with loads of drives, so once they're full i'll simply buy 1TB drives and migrate the data to the new drives. The old drives will be used as swap or erased and sold/given away. I don't know if this is true or not, but I figure the magnetic encoding of the archive drives could become less strong with time. Migrating data to new drives gets around this, but so would a through defragmentation with something like jkdefrag which can move all the data around.

I'm considering a 3rd backup of the JPG files to DVD, but i'm not sure yet if i'll bother. Two hard drives in different locations seems like enough to me.

I'm happy to answer questions if anything isn't clear, and i'm open to suggestions to improve my backup system, though I don't think it needs improving.


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Wilt
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Sep 09, 2008 18:06 |  #54

http://worldcat.org …er/file3612.htm​l#article3 (external link)

This article looks at media longevity. Note particularly Figure 4a and 4b... failure probability for optical media at 10 years.
2% of the CD-ROMs may reach the end-of-life values by 10 years, and the percent of CD-ROMs to fail would increase to 13% by fifty years if the media is stored under normal office environment conditions.


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tim
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Sep 09, 2008 18:15 |  #55

In my experience CDs and DVDs don't last that long. There issue isn't so much media degradation, they just don't work when you try to read them on new computers, even if the disk looks ok. Scratches and such if they haven't been stored properly is another issue.


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HankScorpio
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Sep 10, 2008 13:20 |  #56

tim wrote in post #6274605 (external link)
Excellent... now instead of losing 700MB or 4GB of data when a disk goes bad you lose 50GB!

Seriously though, CD and DVD were fragile enough, and the data is packed much more densely on Blu Ray. If it gets scratched that scratch covers far more data. This suggests the media will be less robust than the already kinda flakey DVDs.

I have CDs that are 12 years old (gold 1x ones) that read fine. I have old DVDs that are scratched beyond belief and they still read fine. I dropped a Blu-Ray on the floor then ran my chair over it (not on purpose) and it still reads fine.

Given that I make 2 copies of every disc and the data will soon be brought forward onto whatever super huge media is just around the corner then I sleep pretty well without worrying about losing images.


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kalieaire
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Sep 10, 2008 13:37 |  #57

funhouse69 wrote in post #6263634 (external link)
I'm a computer guy so I have a Nice little network in my house and built a Server utilizinew RAID 5 so I can withstand a single drive failure combine that with Carbonite Online Backup. It is unlimited and gives me a little more piece of mind just in case something catastrophic would happen.

Here's a Picture of mine (the white drive holders) and one I built for a friend of mine (the black).
QUOTED IMAGE

sun micro contaners, nice. i've got a 4u case w/ 8 in my raid 5 array, and another 2 for OS. However they're loud as hell since they're being used as DAS for my video and pictures sitting on my desk. :P I actually want to upgrade to 2.5" sata and run port multipliers. laptop drives run waaaaaaaaaaay cooler so the fans are quieter.

what controller are you using? w/ bbu or not? if not, are you running ext3? and are you daisy chaining the drives together?


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Wilt
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Sep 10, 2008 13:38 |  #58

HankScorpio wrote in post #6280478 (external link)
I have CDs that are 12 years old (gold 1x ones) that read fine. I have old DVDs that are scratched beyond belief and they still read fine. I dropped a Blu-Ray on the floor then ran my chair over it (not on purpose) and it still reads fine.

Given that I make 2 copies of every disc and the data will soon be brought forward onto whatever super huge media is just around the corner then I sleep pretty well without worrying about losing images.

:)...but then we have to worry that our applications still read the old files! I have some Excel files from early 1990s that I cannot open with Excel 2003!


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Wilt
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Sep 10, 2008 13:44 |  #59

tim wrote in post #6275024 (external link)
In my experience CDs and DVDs don't last that long. There issue isn't so much media degradation, they just don't work when you try to read them on new computers, even if the disk looks ok. Scratches and such if they haven't been stored properly is another issue.

Yeah, I have a CD with Photoshop LE that came with a Canon G2 that I purchased. Have used that disc to load and reload software on multiple occasions, but now it does not work any more, in spite of careful storage. (Fortunately I have another CD with Photoshop LE that came with a scanner I purchased.)


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tim
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Sep 10, 2008 15:45 |  #60

HankScorpio wrote in post #6280478 (external link)
I have CDs that are 12 years old (gold 1x ones) that read fine. I have old DVDs that are scratched beyond belief and they still read fine. I dropped a Blu-Ray on the floor then ran my chair over it (not on purpose) and it still reads fine.

Given that I make 2 copies of every disc and the data will soon be brought forward onto whatever super huge media is just around the corner then I sleep pretty well without worrying about losing images.

That's great. They'll fail eventually.


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