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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre Sports Talk 
Thread started 23 Dec 2008 (Tuesday) 13:51
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First time football shoot (Soccer)

 
Choccy
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Dec 23, 2008 13:51 |  #1

Here are a couple of attempts from Sunday using a 450D and 70-200mm F4. Need some advice if I'm getting it right. I really am struggling with the 450D focusing. Not sure if I have all the settings right.

AF Servo, center spot and center weighted metering. Just had trouble tracking the action.


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danaitch
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Dec 26, 2008 06:35 |  #2

You've got the hang of your metering (although I normally use evaluative metering) and AF settings it would seem, but you need to learn more about exposure for sports photography. I only looked at your EXIF for the first one, but shooting at 1/1000th, f14 and ISO800 has a number of detrimental effects on your photography.

- Your grain/noise will be more noticeable than it needs to be
- Your depth of field is HUGE.

You've made the mistake that most people make when they shoot sports photography - thinking that shutter priority is the way forward; it isn't.

Shoot in aperture priority, keep your lens wide-open (f4 for the lens you used), and let your manipulation of your ISO keep your shutter speed nice and high. This will retain the ability to freeze the action, but will give you a really shallow depth of field and make your subjects stand out more.

As for your images, you should try and shoot from a lower perspective (kneel, or get a little stool), crop your images (or shoot them) with the action as frame-filling as you can get and (in reference to the second shot) try and keep the players faces in the picture, as well as the ball.

That said, they're a good start into this rather weird and wonderful world so I'm looking forward to seeing some more, if my advice is useful to you. :)


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eigga
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Dec 26, 2008 17:45 |  #3

Just had trouble tracking the action

not much settings for that... just practice.

Lots of good info above.... I will add shoot tight, very tight and crop tighter.


-Matt
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slow ­ down
Hatchling
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Dec 26, 2008 18:15 as a reply to  @ eigga's post |  #4

Good stuff ^^^

understand the sport. you mention 'tracking'. there's two things to consider.
1) know where the ball is going - shoot with both eyes open and try to anticipate the movement of the ball/players. (don't forget if there are coaches or players on the sidelines, get their reactions!!)
2) find the *real* players - most of the players are just downright boring. if you're lucky, there's a joker amongst them. find that person and let them do all the work for you ;)

consider a monopod and don't be afraid to turn the camera on its side to get the vertical shot.

have fun!


50D | 70-200 | 17-55 | luck

  
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Choccy
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Dec 28, 2008 04:20 |  #5

danaitch wrote in post #6946529 (external link)
You've got the hang of your metering (although I normally use evaluative metering) and AF settings it would seem, but you need to learn more about exposure for sports photography. I only looked at your EXIF for the first one, but shooting at 1/1000th, f14 and ISO800 has a number of detrimental effects on your photography.

- Your grain/noise will be more noticeable than it needs to be
- Your depth of field is HUGE.

You've made the mistake that most people make when they shoot sports photography - thinking that shutter priority is the way forward; it isn't.

Shoot in aperture priority, keep your lens wide-open (f4 for the lens you used), and let your manipulation of your ISO keep your shutter speed nice and high. This will retain the ability to freeze the action, but will give you a really shallow depth of field and make your subjects stand out more.

As for your images, you should try and shoot from a lower perspective (kneel, or get a little stool), crop your images (or shoot them) with the action as frame-filling as you can get and (in reference to the second shot) try and keep the players faces in the picture, as well as the ball.

That said, they're a good start into this rather weird and wonderful world so I'm looking forward to seeing some more, if my advice is useful to you. :)

Thanks for the advice. I did want to use AV but the light changed every other minute from dark overcast clouds to bright sunshine. I do like AV better but not when the light changes so dramatically. After this shoot I wondered if the 2.8 would have been better but it was alot more money and weight and size also.

My future debate will be a new body. I would like either a 5DmkII or 1DmkIII with a 24-105mm F4.

I know I need more practice and think I've understood where I went wrong so hopefully will get better results. I did notice a lot of OoF shots that seemed quite soft and was not sure if the lens is back focussing at all. I have a friend who is a pro togger so will see if he can have a look at it for me. The lens is still under warranty.

Choccy...




  
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eigga
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Dec 28, 2008 09:46 |  #6

I did want to use AV but the light changed every other minute from dark overcast clouds to bright sunshine

Inconsistent light is the time you WANT to use AV. Start with AV and learn to adjust your exposure compensation. Typically I am at + 1/3 when using AV. The camera will get you close in most situations. Try to avoid backlit subjects at first.


-Matt
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cpo13
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Dec 29, 2008 03:38 |  #7

Choccy wrote in post #6956556 (external link)
Thanks for the advice. I did want to use AV but the light changed every other minute from dark overcast clouds to bright sunshine. I do like AV better but not when the light changes so dramatically. After this shoot I wondered if the 2.8 would have been better but it was alot more money and weight and size also.

Would certainly agree with Matt that this is when Av should be used. Also the 2.8 lens wouldn't have made any difference here, especially shooting at f14 as in the first pic.

Would also add that using spot metering, which the EXIF indicated, can lead to problems, (for example if you are filling the frame and focusing on a white jersey).


Chris

  
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jamesb84
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Dec 29, 2008 10:22 as a reply to  @ cpo13's post |  #8

My advice for settings (to get you started) would be:
Mode: Aperture Priority (Av)
Aperture: f/4.0
Exposure Compensation (Ev): +0.6 (also known as +2/3)
Metering Mode: Evaluative (the dot with the circle round it) - for daylight/sunlight.

Set the ISO speed to whatever you can get and don't go below a minimum shutter speed of 1/640.

I would also give you a piece of advice to "FILL THE FRAME"...by which I mean, crop it to as close as possible around the action. Photoshop Elements will allow you to do this (I think...correct me if i'm wrong anyone).

You can also "dial down" the +0.6 exposure compensation in Elements too. It will allow you to ensure you get well exposed photos in post-processing.

James.


Hi, my name is James...and I'm here to hel https://photography-on-the.net …?p=6506577&post​count=1417

  
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Choccy
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Dec 29, 2008 14:10 |  #9

jamesb84 wrote in post #6963007 (external link)
My advice for settings (to get you started) would be:
Mode: Aperture Priority (Av)
Aperture: f/4.0
Exposure Compensation (Ev): +0.6 (also known as +2/3)
Metering Mode: Evaluative (the dot with the circle round it) - for daylight/sunlight.

Set the ISO speed to whatever you can get and don't go below a minimum shutter speed of 1/640.

I would also give you a piece of advice to "FILL THE FRAME"...by which I mean, crop it to as close as possible around the action. Photoshop Elements will allow you to do this (I think...correct me if i'm wrong anyone).

You can also "dial down" the +0.6 exposure compensation in Elements too. It will allow you to ensure you get well exposed photos in post-processing.

James.

Would centre weighted be better if the background is dark and the players are in light colours.

Choccy...




  
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Oakey22
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Dec 29, 2008 14:15 |  #10

This is something i am looking at aswell, as i noticed most of my pics are about 1/320th and 1/500th and are not pin sharp. I can only presume i am too low on the shutter speed.




  
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jamesb84
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Dec 29, 2008 15:35 |  #11

Oakey22 wrote in post #6964200 (external link)
This is something i am looking at aswell, as i noticed most of my pics are about 1/320th and 1/500th and are not pin sharp. I can only presume i am too low on the shutter speed.

I have always tried to go for at least 1/640. If you're not getting these speeds, then you could always go for Manual Mode (which is what I use). 1/640 and f/2.8 with the ISO speed to enable those.

I have, very occasionally gone down to 1/500 but with Premiership and Championship football, you get a bit of ball blur with that low.

Choccy wrote in post #6964166 (external link)
Would centre weighted be better if the background is dark and the players are in light colours.

Choccy...

Well...I tend to use spot metering, but only because I do a lot of night photos, and I want to meter on the pitch and not the darkened stand in the background, then again, as i've said above, it is Manual mode for me. I used Av with evaluative metering and it did result in lower shutter speed. Perhaps, give it a try with either and see which you prefer. Though, to be fair, unless you're photographing really really good players who are running fast you wont need much faster than 1/320.

Give it a try with experiments perhaps and figure out what works for you.

James.


Hi, my name is James...and I'm here to hel https://photography-on-the.net …?p=6506577&post​count=1417

  
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danaitch
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Dec 29, 2008 17:01 as a reply to  @ jamesb84's post |  #12

If you're concerned about metering and your light is going to be constant (e.g. under floodlights), get a light meter or take a spot reading from a grey card and switch to 'M' for the duration.

It works.

Well, it has for me. :)


TEAM! PRIDE! BLITZ!
www.londonblitz.com (external link)
2007 AND 2009 BAFL NATIONAL CHAMPIONS

2x1D Mk.III, 400 f2.8l IS, 70-200 f2.8l IS, 24-70 f2.8l

  
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liam5100
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Dec 30, 2008 14:43 |  #13

danaitch wrote in post #6965265 (external link)
If you're concerned about metering and your light is going to be constant (e.g. under floodlights), get a light meter or take a spot reading from a grey card and switch to 'M' for the duration.

It works.

Well, it has for me. :)

I agree with this as well, also soccer is a pretty fast game, 1/640 should be a minimum. Sacrifice the other settings to get this in my opinion. Stopping the action is key to a good sports shot.

It seems you've got an eye for the action, I'd almost guess you probably played soccer quite a bit, thats a definate bonus. The only other tips I would give are too watch your crops and backgrounds.

Is there a reason you didnt crop these tighter?


Bill -
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dinny66
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Jan 01, 2009 06:26 |  #14

danaitch wrote in post #6965265 (external link)
If you're concerned about metering and your light is going to be constant (e.g. under floodlights), get a light meter or take a spot reading from a grey card and switch to 'M' for the duration.

It works.

Well, it has for me. :)

Haha. I guess that's OK if you've got even illuminations cross the pitch:lol:. Down here in Step 9 (Non-league county level) it's a mixed bag with brighter and darker patches across the pitch.

Mike


Mike

  
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danaitch
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Jan 02, 2009 03:45 as a reply to  @ dinny66's post |  #15

I had a similar experience recently. However, I took meter readings from different parts of the field and adjusted my shutter speed accordingly to get the best exposure I could, depending on what part of the field the action was in. Granted, this is dependant on being able to get full access to the field/arena to allow this, but if you can, it's worth it. :)

I was lucky in that the lighting only really varied in the endzones, dropping from 1/500th at ISO6400 and f2.8, to 1/400th at ISO6400 and f2.8. It should have been lower than 1/400th but I wanted to try and freeze SOME of the shots. :(


TEAM! PRIDE! BLITZ!
www.londonblitz.com (external link)
2007 AND 2009 BAFL NATIONAL CHAMPIONS

2x1D Mk.III, 400 f2.8l IS, 70-200 f2.8l IS, 24-70 f2.8l

  
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First time football shoot (Soccer)
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