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Thread started 15 Jan 2009 (Thursday) 16:34
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New add on to 2257 law any ideas?

 
RP33
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Jan 15, 2009 16:34 |  #1

The new add on to the 2257 law is comming up fast. Has anyone had a chance to find out what we are going to have to do? I do not sell any of my work do I have to comply? What does it take to comply? What does the group have to say about this?




  
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DDCSD
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Jan 15, 2009 18:55 |  #2

Might help to post a link to said law, what "add-ons" are coming up and mention where said law is in effect.


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Pinto
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Jan 15, 2009 21:35 |  #3

I think it has to do with maintaining age verification and consent of models shown on websites. It is meant to target adult sites and primarily to help combat child pornography.

Unless you have a site featuring sexually explicit images I don't think you have much to worry about. OP appears very concerned, so perhaps there are other issues involved.




  
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Village_Idiot
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Jan 16, 2009 08:51 |  #4

I was reading a thread on this on another photography forum. Apparently people who do any work where they have to maintain records showing proof of age have to have the place where those records are stored available for inspection between something like 9-5. Basically you have to have your home open so some one can come in when they want to check records.

This applies for nude photograph, etc...

That's what I got from the thread.


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DDCSD
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Jan 16, 2009 09:04 |  #5

Village_Idiot wrote in post #7089029 (external link)
I was reading a thread on this on another photography forum. Apparently people who do any work where they have to maintain records showing proof of age have to have the place where those records are stored available for inspection between something like 9-5. Basically you have to have your home open so some one can come in when they want to check records.

This applies for nude photograph, etc...

That's what I got from the thread.

Sounds like the requirement for having an FFL (Federal Firearms License). They make you basically have an actual storefront that is open 8-5 and the records must be able to be inspected at any time, which keeps people from legally doing it as a second job.


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Village_Idiot
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Jan 16, 2009 10:13 |  #6

DDCSD wrote in post #7089102 (external link)
Sounds like the requirement for having an FFL (Federal Firearms License). They make you basically have an actual storefront that is open 8-5 and the records must be able to be inspected at any time, which keeps people from legally doing it as a second job.

But that makes sense. Firearms aren't supposed to be sold on e-bay. Normally some one that opens a gun store isn't doing it part time, they're not going to work at their day job then have a gun store that's open from 6-9 when they're available. If you were allowed to purchase handguns over the internet there would be no way to control sales to felons, etc... It's much easier to get some one's info and use that to order than to physically walk into a store, fake identification, then purchase a gun. Granted, there are crooked owners and buys where people buy for others, but that's more difficult than "scamming" a mail order gun business would be.

On the other hand, photographers that do nude photos may not even have a studio. They could be doing on location nudes, etc... I agree that they should have to have proof of the model's age, but they shouldn't be required to have it in a place that's accessible at any given moment unless it counts as storing them in a lock box outside your house or sending them to a custodian of records.


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DDCSD
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Jan 16, 2009 10:55 |  #7

Village_Idiot wrote in post #7089514 (external link)
But that makes sense. Firearms aren't supposed to be sold on e-bay. Normally some one that opens a gun store isn't doing it part time, they're not going to work at their day job then have a gun store that's open from 6-9 when they're available. If you were allowed to purchase handguns over the internet there would be no way to control sales to felons, etc... It's much easier to get some one's info and use that to order than to physically walk into a store, fake identification, then purchase a gun. Granted, there are crooked owners and buys where people buy for others, but that's more difficult than "scamming" a mail order gun business would be.

On the other hand, photographers that do nude photos may not even have a studio. They could be doing on location nudes, etc... I agree that they should have to have proof of the model's age, but they shouldn't be required to have it in a place that's accessible at any given moment unless it counts as storing them in a lock box outside your house or sending them to a custodian of records.


Actually, in rural areas gun dealers often worked out of their homes. Every gun my dad ever bought was from a friend of his who was a general contractor. Just because you have a FFL doesn't mean that you have guns that you stock. Often you order them from a distributor for a customer and the FFL holder is the one that does the background checks. Not every area has a gun dealer in town that can afford to have thousands and thousands of dollars worth of inventory and have a full-time storefront, just like people that shoot nude models don't have naked women laying around their studio or home 24 hours a day.

And you can buy guns online, but they must be shipped to someone who holds an FFL, who will then run the background checks. It is Ebay's policy to not allow them. There are other gun auction sites.

It is very difficult to get an FFL with numerous extensive background checks required, while anyone can buy a camera and get someone to take their clothes of.


The point is that they're trying to regulate it so heavily that most people will give up doing it in order to save the hassle. That is how governments regulate thought and behavior.


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Ledrak
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Jan 16, 2009 13:07 |  #8

Village_Idiot wrote in post #7089029 (external link)
I was reading a thread on this on another photography forum. Apparently people who do any work where they have to maintain records showing proof of age have to have the place where those records are stored available for inspection between something like 9-5. Basically you have to have your home open so some one can come in when they want to check records.

This applies for nude photograph, etc...

That's what I got from the thread.

That's not any different than the current requirements. You've always had to have a custodian of records that was available for inspection. I haven't heard of any changes coming in the 2257 requirements. If someone has a link that specifies what's going to be changed, please post it up.




  
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Pinto
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Jan 16, 2009 13:33 |  #9

I think the revisions take effect January 17. There is a lively discussion at Model Mayhem:
http://www.modelmayhem​.com …p?thread_id=386​614&page=1 (external link)




  
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Jan 16, 2009 15:30 |  #10

DDCSD wrote in post #7089744 (external link)
... just like people that shoot nude models don't have naked women laying around their studio or home 24 hours a day.

They don't?

Damn... guess that rules out adding glamor/nude work to the resume! ;)


DDCSD wrote in post #7089744 (external link)
... while anyone can buy a camera and get someone to take their clothes off.


Is that a custom function on some of the newer DSLRs?

Or is there a dedicated "Strip" button? :lol:

Hmmmm.... What with all this discussion of firearms and shooting... Bet this thread is being monitored by the ATF, the Secret Service and Homeland Security now!

Not to make light of it all... Anyone having to deal with that new law should probably have lunch with their attorney.


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Ledrak
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Jan 16, 2009 15:32 |  #11

Pinto wrote in post #7090707 (external link)
I think the revisions take effect January 17. There is a lively discussion at Model Mayhem:
http://www.modelmayhem​.com …p?thread_id=386​614&page=1 (external link)

I just skimmed over it, but I didn't notice anything that will effect me any differently from before. It appears (if I understand correctly) that the actual record keeping requirements are pretty much the same as they were before (perhaps a slight alteration here or there). What appears to have really changed is the definition of who will be required to comply with the 2257 statute. Before, if you weren't shooting sexually explicit stuff then you didn't need to comply. But now, it seems anyone shooting nudes of any kind (as of March 18th) may need to comply.

Since I already maintain 2257 docs for anything nude that I shoot, this won't affect me at all.




  
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transcend
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Jan 16, 2009 15:38 |  #12

Village_Idiot wrote in post #7089514 (external link)
But that makes sense. Firearms aren't supposed to be sold on e-bay. Normally some one that opens a gun store isn't doing it part time, they're not going to work at their day job then have a gun store that's open from 6-9 when they're available. If you were allowed to purchase handguns over the internet there would be no way to control sales to felons, etc... It's much easier to get some one's info and use that to order than to physically walk into a store, fake identification, then purchase a gun. Granted, there are crooked owners and buys where people buy for others, but that's more difficult than "scamming" a mail order gun business would be.

On the other hand, photographers that do nude photos may not even have a studio. They could be doing on location nudes, etc... I agree that they should have to have proof of the model's age, but they shouldn't be required to have it in a place that's accessible at any given moment unless it counts as storing them in a lock box outside your house or sending them to a custodian of records.

It makes perfect sense, as the idea is to keep exploitation to a minimum. The idea is that a "professional studio" is not some dude's garage where a perv shoots kiddie porn.


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DDCSD
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Jan 16, 2009 17:51 |  #13

amfoto1 wrote in post #7091361 (external link)
They don't?

Damn... guess that rules out adding glamor/nude work to the resume! ;)

Is that a custom function on some of the newer DSLRs?

Or is there a dedicated "Strip" button? :lol:

Hmmmm.... What with all this discussion of firearms and shooting... Bet this thread is being monitored by the ATF, the Secret Service and Homeland Security now!

Not to make light of it all... Anyone having to deal with that new law should probably have lunch with their attorney.


:) :)

I'm just saying that if anyone is wondering where this is heading, just look at how they've made it insanely difficult for law abiding citizens to be gun dealers. They seem to be following that handbook word for word.

Make it harder and harder for law-abiding citizens to stay in compliance with the law, eventually turning them into criminals when they make a mistake or force them out of business due to requirements that most cannot afford to keep up with. Pretty soon, if you want to post an image online of someone without their clothes on, you'll have to send in a registration form to verify compliance with the law. :)


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DDCSD
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Jan 16, 2009 17:53 |  #14

transcend wrote in post #7091412 (external link)
It makes perfect sense, as the idea is to keep exploitation to a minimum. The idea is that a "professional studio" is not some dude's garage where a perv shoots kiddie porn.

If someone is shooting kiddie porn in their garage, do you really think that they're worried about maintaining proof of age, regardless of how strict the law is or what requirements are imposed?


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RP33
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Jan 17, 2009 23:08 |  #15

I wont shoot anyone under 18 period unless mom is there. And I wont shoot her in a questionable look. My question is, does lingerie or implieds fall under the new 2257 law? I want to be sure I am doing all the paper work right. Adults only period. Anyone shooting underage stuff should be shot on site.




  
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New add on to 2257 law any ideas?
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