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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 27 Jan 2009 (Tuesday) 11:38
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Are FF really a need?

 
hughps
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Jan 27, 2009 12:22 |  #16

The biggest things that can't be duplicated on smaller sensors are true ultra-wide angles of view (121° with the Sigma 12-24mm), shallower depth of field given the same angle of view and aperture, and less noise at a given ISO value due to larger pixel sites on the sensor.


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toxic
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Jan 27, 2009 12:30 |  #17

The larger sensor size resolves more detail, and full frame is the biggest you get in a portable body, compared to medium or large format.... However, the extra detail won't be visible in prints smaller than 11x14, or something like that. It's also an easy transition from film, which many (or even all) professionals have used, since field of view doesn't change.

Full frame sensors also get about one stop more light and about one stop less depth of field for a given setting than a crop sensor.




  
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tkbslc
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Jan 27, 2009 12:31 |  #18

Ali-Azri wrote in post #7198373 (external link)
basically, with FF bodies, you take photos based on what-you-see-is-what-you-get.

exp:
to take full advantage of the fisheye...yes to FF

I don't get it. When I take pictures with my APS-C, what I see is what I get. And they make a 10mm fisheye lens for APS-C, so that is the same as the widest fisheye for full frame. Pretty much any FOV and DOF can be made on both 1.6x crop and a FF, with a few exceptions, by choosing the right lens combos.

Really, it is just that the sensor is larger. So that usually means more detail and less noise with similar settings and lenses.

Unless you regularly print very very large, I would not even think about the differences in printing.


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Jan 27, 2009 12:33 |  #19

Bingo! I'm pretty old school, and old habits die hard :lol:. You just described how I look at the world. - Stu

FlyingPhotog wrote in post #7198368 (external link)
Or if you've shot a lot of 35mm film and your eye / brain is trained to see the world in certain way at a given focal length then give a FF body a look.


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ed ­ rader
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Jan 27, 2009 12:40 |  #20

Ali-Azri wrote in post #7198373 (external link)
basically, with FF bodies, you take photos based on what-you-see-is-what-you-get.

exp:
to take full advantage of the fisheye...yes to FF

you've lost me with that one.

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ed ­ rader
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Jan 27, 2009 12:43 |  #21

tkbslc wrote in post #7198648 (external link)
I don't get it. When I take pictures with my APS-C, what I see is what I get. And they make a 10mm fisheye lens for APS-C, so that is the same as the widest fisheye for full frame. Pretty much any FOV and DOF can be made on both 1.6x crop and a FF, with a few exceptions, by choosing the right lens combos.

Really, it is just that the sensor is larger. So that usually means more detail and less noise with similar settings and lenses.

Unless you regularly print very very large, I would not even think about the differences in printing.

better IQ. better noise handling. shallower DOF. more resolution. the new generation of hi-resolution FF cameras will give most shooters more options but there are of course trade-offs.

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Jan 27, 2009 12:59 |  #22

It depends on what you shoot, and what type of output you are targeting, and what you mean by "pro".

Plenty of people make good money shooting crop cameras. In fact, Canon's "pro" camera for sports is the 1.3 crop 1D Mk III, which is also a premier camera for many other "pro" uses and has only 10 Megapixels -- but they are capable of producing images that are tops in IQ..

On the other hand, many pros in the fine arts (large gallery-quality prints), in weddings, portraits lean toward full-frame to squeeze out the maximum amount of detail and image quality that the ff cameras can excel in. Also, many publishers require high resolution files that, if you were shooting with a crop body, you may struggle to meet the requirements.

So, there is no pat answer. Don't get an expensive body just because "the pros use them", but determine your specific needs. Then get the expensive body:)!


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[godfather]
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Jan 27, 2009 13:09 |  #23
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^^^ Thanx for that reply! Actually, you know here, the SKILLS are the second preference and the Gear is the first. As far as I could get into some contacts of the companies locally, they only get impressed with the gear you have. 400D looks like a regular body, so I thought to ask everyone here. That whether I should buy L Glass (70-200 and 24-105 + a Body upgrade of 50D) or I should buy ONLY a FF Body.

That is my concern


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tkbslc
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Jan 27, 2009 13:17 |  #24

[godfather wrote:
='[godfather];7198876'​]^^^ Thanx for that reply! Actually, you know here, the SKILLS are the second preference and the Gear is the first. As far as I could get into some contacts of the companies locally, they only get impressed with the gear you have. 400D looks like a regular body, so I thought to ask everyone here. That whether I should buy L Glass (70-200 and 24-105 + a Body upgrade of 50D) or I should buy ONLY a FF Body.

That is my concern

Based on the lenses in your signature, you will have to buy new lenses if you go FF anyway. Only your 50mm will work on a FF, the rest are only for 1.6x crop. So if you don't have the budget for both FF body AND the lenses, you don't really have a choice.

Personally, I'd take a 50D with two L lenses over a 5D with a couple cheap lenses anyday.


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tonylong
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Jan 27, 2009 13:35 |  #25

The 50D with good glass will certainly take "professional quality" images.

I understand your problem with contacts who have high expectations. I guess my approach would be to try to find out what their definition of "professional" may be. To many people with a little knowledge it may simply be an SLR-type camera that uses interchangeable lenses. The Rebel would qualify! Those more in-the-know but not "experts" may see the Rebel as beginning-level but have more respect for a camera like the 40D/50D.

Of course you could blow your bank account, get both a 1D Mk III (crop) and a 1Ds Mk III (full frame) then nobody could say a word, but that really won't necessarily be the wisest move unless you are in great shape financially, so what you really want is to find the level that 1) will let you do your best work 2) you can afford and 3) will project professionalism to ward off those snippety contact people!


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JJD.Photography
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Jan 27, 2009 13:53 |  #26

[godfather wrote:
='[godfather];7198414'​]Actually since I am moving towards earn something over this hobby (like many others), the field I am choosing will be more of printing of the images. Currently I own a 400D and hopefully, by sometime I would upgrade to 50D, so I was curious, should I upgrade to 50D or should I not BUY Some good glass and upgrade to a FF.

I'd take a 400D with great glass over a FF with ok glass ANY day!

I've never shot FF, but I've always heard glass first.... body later!


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MinhThien
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Jan 27, 2009 14:01 |  #27

JJD.Photography wrote in post #7199197 (external link)
I'd take a 400D with great glass over a FF with ok glass ANY day!

I've never shot FF, but I've always heard glass first.... body later!

I've heard that once you go FF you'll never go back!:p


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Jan 27, 2009 14:04 |  #28

vpnd wrote in post #7198307 (external link)
better bokeh, better focus, images look a little different imho. not needed, but a good thing

Bokeh is a function of the lens not the camera.

There are crop cameras with better AF than some FF cameras. What does the sensor size have to do with AF?




  
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elysium
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Jan 27, 2009 14:11 |  #29

[godfather wrote:
='[godfather];7198293'​]Hi
i have seen many pro who have FF cameras. IS there any thing apart from the sensor size and MPs that one should buy a FF instead of crop if hes going to be a Professional?

Full frame IS a need in certain situations.

Since its an advantage for wide angle, I have to worry about less distortion when required. As my 5D is used on a car rig, I have to take into account of cramped working conditions or the length of the poles being used. Whilst I could get away with a crop body and a 10-22, I find the distortion on a FF at 12mm is better controlled.

I also shoot a lot of film so I like to move seamlessly to digital and that has been pleasing for me. I can work with a range of 24-70 easily on a FF but on a crop, just felt akward since I was not use to it.

Its a NEED for some people, a WANT for the other. It really depends on how you justify it.


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Lowner
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Jan 27, 2009 14:12 |  #30

Any camera in Canons dSLR range in the hands of a good photographer will produce quality images. It's far more about the art than the science.

As has already been said, much depends on the type(s) of photography you do, whether a crop or FF body would be best. Believe me, I've been struggling with this question for some months and theres no single "xyz camera is best" answer.


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