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Thread started 29 Aug 2007 (Wednesday) 09:51
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Party Shots

 
I ­ Like ­ to ­ Watch
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Apr 08, 2009 06:44 |  #151

Pete wrote in post #5046842 (external link)
Changing the ISO from 1600 down to 800 would result in a slower shutter speed. In thise test example, all that would happen would be that you might get a bit less noise and a bit more camera shake (although this is in part offset by the flash "freezing" the shot).

I'd like to see that same test shot at the same settings, but in manual mode (just to see what the flash added to the result).

Still keeping an old thread going.

Just read from start to finish but am confused by this post that the change in ISO would result in a slower shutter speed.

Haven't you got the camera in Manual Mode for this so any changes would have to be done manually ?


Canon 5D Mk lll & 50D : Canon 70-200mm f/2.8 L, Canon 70-300mm f/4-5.6 IS , Canon EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS, Canon EF-S 10-22mm, Canon 100mm f/2.8 Macro, Canon 50mm f/1.8, Sigma 17-70mm, Sigma 50mm f/1.4

  
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Pete
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Apr 08, 2009 07:04 |  #152

Wow, this thread's still going, eh?

Basically, decreasing the iso enforces a slower shutter speed if you wanted the same exposure value - you're halving the sensitivity of the filter, so you need to double the exposure time accordingly.

If you don't adjust the shutter speed, then the ambient exposure will be darker - forcing the flash to increase power.

This would result in a darker background or more pronounced shadows.

I hope that makes some kind of sense...


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Apr 08, 2009 07:31 as a reply to  @ Pete's post |  #153

Which was my point....you'd have to alter the shutter speed yourself. The way I read it, the post "implied" that the change in ISO would automatically change the Shutter Speed (which of course it would if it was in Av mode, but not in M mode).


Canon 5D Mk lll & 50D : Canon 70-200mm f/2.8 L, Canon 70-300mm f/4-5.6 IS , Canon EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS, Canon EF-S 10-22mm, Canon 100mm f/2.8 Macro, Canon 50mm f/1.8, Sigma 17-70mm, Sigma 50mm f/1.4

  
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airfrogusmc
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Apr 08, 2009 08:03 as a reply to  @ I Like to Watch's post |  #154

How 'bout after the party.

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Pete
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Apr 08, 2009 08:40 |  #155

I Like to Watch wrote in post #7690394 (external link)
Which was my point....you'd have to alter the shutter speed yourself. The way I read it, the post "implied" that the change in ISO would automatically change the Shutter Speed (which of course it would if it was in Av mode, but not in M mode).

Sorry, I mis-read you there.

Yes, you'll need to change it yourself - I was shooting in full manual.

The only "auto" thing going on is the flash power output - that's handled by ETTL.


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crslaytor
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May 15, 2009 16:35 |  #156

i love that thread.
Anyone fancy to post some new pictures?

what about changing the settings on curtain sync?




  
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tonytsang
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Jul 28, 2009 08:47 |  #157

Hi Pete

First, thank you so much for your tips. It is really appreciated for me.

I am so new with the flash. I read through your whole discussion and try to learn as much as I can.

I just have a few questions for you and hope that you can help me out.
1- When i use the stofen diffuser, do I keep the flash angle to 45 as per stofen instruction? or Stright up to celling (90 degress) or direct to subject?

2- for 450D (or XSI), ISO 1600 is really noisy, can i use ISO 800 but keep the shutter speed to 1/40 as you suggest? Will it make the flash to flash more agressive so that my subject will be overexposed?

3- My kit lens can open to F4 apeature as max. Can I still using the 1/40 shutter speed, ISO 1600? because you are using F2.8, Will it make the flash to flash more agressive so that my subject will be overexposed?

4- If I want to shot a group of people (like say 4 to 5), Can I increase the Apeature to F8? otherwise some people in the group will be out focus. Again, same like question 3, can i still using shutter speed of 1/40, ISO 1600? As I increase the apeature, will the flash once again flash more agressive so that my subject will be overexposed?

5- If the flash is too powerful due to I lower the ISO or Decrese the apeture to F8, can I adjust the Flash compensation to make it less powerful? What is good starting point? Is -1 a good start? If I adjust the flash compensation, will it make any impact?

Sorry for long question but I really want to master it as I will soon need to apply this technique for my frend wedding.

Thanks in advance.


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Tamron 17-50 F2.8/Canon 55-200mm F4-5.6 IS
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Pete
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Jul 30, 2009 16:23 |  #158

Hi there,

See answers below. Sorry I didn't see your questions before, I thought this thread had died long ago!

tonytsang wrote in post #8356351 (external link)
Hi Pete

First, thank you so much for your tips. It is really appreciated for me.

I am so new with the flash. I read through your whole discussion and try to learn as much as I can.

I just have a few questions for you and hope that you can help me out.
1- When i use the stofen diffuser, do I keep the flash angle to 45 as per stofen instruction? or Stright up to celling (90 degress) or direct to subject?

I had mine pointing right at the subject here (no ceiling to bounce off) but experiment, things might change according to the location.


2- for 450D (or XSI), ISO 1600 is really noisy, can i use ISO 800 but keep the shutter speed to 1/40 as you suggest? Will it make the flash to flash more agressive so that my subject will be overexposed?

Your exposure won't be overexposed that much. Basically what you're doing here is exposing for the ambient light (but underexposed by a couple of stops) and letting the flash complete the exposure.

3- My kit lens can open to F4 apeature as max. Can I still using the 1/40 shutter speed, ISO 1600? because you are using F2.8, Will it make the flash to flash more agressive so that my subject will be overexposed?

My lens at that time was an f/4 lens. Same answer as above.


4- If I want to shot a group of people (like say 4 to 5), Can I increase the Apeature to F8? otherwise some people in the group will be out focus. Again, same like question 3, can i still using shutter speed of 1/40, ISO 1600? As I increase the apeature, will the flash once again flash more agressive so that my subject will be overexposed?

Yes, you can, but the effectiveness of the flash will be less if the subjects are further away. You can see in some of the group shots in this thread, this technique can work well if the subjects are fairly close. It also gives a nice, intimate feel to the group shot.


5- If the flash is too powerful due to I lower the ISO or Decrese the apeture to F8, can I adjust the Flash compensation to make it less powerful? What is good starting point? Is -1 a good start? If I adjust the flash compensation, will it make any impact?

Just adjust the FEC on the flash, that should do the trick.


Sorry for long question but I really want to master it as I will soon need to apply this technique for my frend wedding.

Just do what I did and try to find a fairly dark location (I used my garage) and experiment with the technique so you get used to it. Or you can just try in your house at night with only a couple of dim lights to provide ambient lighting.


Thanks in advance.

Good luck with it!! :D


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tonytsang
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Jul 30, 2009 19:53 |  #159

Pete wrote in post #8370991 (external link)
Hi there,

See answers below. Sorry I didn't see your questions before, I thought this thread had died long ago!

Good luck with it!! :D

Thanks pete.... i will try it in my room first.

And please keep coming back to this thread. I am sure a lot of other people will keep asking you question as your tips in this thread is excellent.


Canon 450D (XSI)
Tamron 17-50 F2.8/Canon 55-200mm F4-5.6 IS
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tonytsang
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Jul 30, 2009 20:53 |  #160

hi Pete

Here is my quick test in my bedroom

1- ISO 1600, F8, 1/40 second, Flash 45 degree

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2- ISO 800, F8, 1/40, Flash 45 degree
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3- ISO 1600, F8, 1/40, flash direct to objects
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4- ISO 800, F8, 1/40, flash direct to objects
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5- ISO 800, F5, 1/40, flash 45 degrees
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6- ISO 800, F5, 1/40, flash 45 degrees
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tonytsang
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Jul 30, 2009 20:54 |  #161

so.... for me... your trick works so well.

F5 + ISO 1600 or F800, 1/40, flash 45 degree works better for me..


Canon 450D (XSI)
Tamron 17-50 F2.8/Canon 55-200mm F4-5.6 IS
50mm F1.4 USM
Flash 430EX II
18-55mm F3.5-5.6 IS (as backup)

  
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Pete
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Jul 31, 2009 05:55 |  #162

Looking good, Tony.

In the real situation, just use the settings you think might work and then look at your LCD after your first couple of shots. Then simply adjust to suit after that.

You've got the idea!


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tonytsang
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Jul 31, 2009 07:39 |  #163

Pete wrote in post #8374400 (external link)
Looking good, Tony.

In the real situation, just use the settings you think might work and then look at your LCD after your first couple of shots. Then simply adjust to suit after that.

You've got the idea!

thanks once again. Will try it this saturday for sure.


Canon 450D (XSI)
Tamron 17-50 F2.8/Canon 55-200mm F4-5.6 IS
50mm F1.4 USM
Flash 430EX II
18-55mm F3.5-5.6 IS (as backup)

  
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johnj2803
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Aug 19, 2009 21:15 |  #164

I tried this technique using the pop up flash unknowingly before i came across this thread

2nd curtain
FEC -2 (I just didn't trust ETTL too much should i start trusting it then?) :D
EttL evaluative
iso 800
f4.5
1/60


But the noise in the background is bad (i am using an XS) What do you think i should do? FEC to-1? turn the evaluative to average? drop the second curtain? :D


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tonytsang
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Aug 20, 2009 10:43 |  #165

johnj2803 wrote in post #8490238 (external link)
I tried this technique using the pop up flash unknowingly before i came across this thread

2nd curtain
FEC -2 (I just didn't trust ETTL too much should i start trusting it then?) :D
EttL evaluative
iso 800
f4.5
1/60

But the noise in the background is bad (i am using an XS) What do you think i should do? FEC to-1? turn the evaluative to average? drop the second curtain? :D

The hold point of Pete's trick is to get the ambient light as much as possible and let the flash do the rest of the work to get proper exposure of the subject.

As I see in your picture, the background is still a bit too dark.

I will try to increase ISO like 1600, shutter speed to 1/40 and let the ETTL flash do the rest of the work.

Yes, it will be super noisy in your background, but you can use Noise Ninja or some other application to remove it (I believe)

And pop up flash isnt' that good either. Try it with the external flash with diffuser or bounce it off if possible.

and as you don't trust the ETTL flash, you can use the flash bracket (not sure if it is existed in XS). So you can have one without modify, one with -1 FEC.


Canon 450D (XSI)
Tamron 17-50 F2.8/Canon 55-200mm F4-5.6 IS
50mm F1.4 USM
Flash 430EX II
18-55mm F3.5-5.6 IS (as backup)

  
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