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Thread started 05 May 2009 (Tuesday) 17:59
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Viper97
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May 06, 2009 08:32 |  #46

I hear quite a bit about this whole AB fanboy thing. So I'm going to put my two cents in (maybe three who knows).

First, let me say I work as a Systems Administrator (my other real job) for a facility that is not only a non-profit but takes care of the elderly and the youngins.

Second, lets just say the older we get (and this goes for all of us) the crankier we get. Call it the "he's set in his ways" syndrome. He's entitled to it, Paul has after all done things few can do, create a great product at a fantastic price that all of us can afford sooner or later. Not to bad for a man who is not only CEO but also 72 years old. Him being the main engineer and by all accounts, the only engineer that ain't peanuts folks.

Third. Call it pride or hubris which ever fits your desire. Paul has pride in his products and his ability. No more so than most of us here. Either way, it generally gets us into troubles if we don't handle it well. Just look at the critiques of work here, some good, some not so good, others just down right hostile. It happens when you open yourself up to others.

Personally, I think Paul made the right decision. I'd rather have him designing products he takes pride in then designing products that meets every little nit-picking want -to-have request out there. Face it, how many of you talk directly to the CEO of say Elinchrome and get that one on one face time? Probably not many. So thanks Paul for all the information, the great customer service and more importantly for your time and dedication in producing products we can use and afford.

My last and final point is simple: We are all fan boys, be it Canon, Nikon or (insert company name here). If I could do what Paul does and make money at it, with his level of attention to the customers, well I'd be better off financially and more than likely better known. Meanwhile, I'm using my AB's and not looking back at silly little discussions of about effective ratings versus real, I'd rather learn lighting than conduct silly (to me) measurements.




  
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neliconcept
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May 06, 2009 08:37 |  #47

Viper97 wrote in post #7867487 (external link)
I hear quite a bit about this whole AB fanboy thing. So I'm going to put my two cents in (maybe three who knows).

First, let me say I work as a Systems Administrator (my other real job) for a facility that is not only a non-profit but takes care of the elderly and the youngins.

Second, lets just say the older we get (and this goes for all of us) the crankier we get. Call it the "he's set in his ways" syndrome. He's entitled to it, Paul has after all done things few can do, create a great product at a fantastic price that all of us can afford sooner or later. Not to bad for a man who is not only CEO but also 72 years old. Him being the main engineer and by all accounts, the only engineer that ain't peanuts folks.

Third. Call it pride or hubris which ever fits your desire. Paul has pride in his products and his ability. No more so than most of us here. Either way, it generally gets us into troubles if we don't handle it well. Just look at the critiques of work here, some good, some not so good, others just down right hostile. It happens when you open yourself up to others.

Personally, I think Paul made the right decision. I'd rather have him designing products he takes pride in then designing products that meets every little nit-picking want -to-have request out there. Face it, how many of you talk directly to the CEO of say Elinchrome and get that one on one face time? Probably not many. So thanks Paul for all the information, the great customer service and more importantly for your time and dedication in producing products we can use and afford.

My last and final point is simple: We are all fan boys, be it Canon, Nikon or (insert company name here). If I could do what Paul does and make money at it, with his level of attention to the customers, well I'd be better off financially and more than likely better known. Meanwhile, I'm using my AB's and not looking back at silly little discussions of about effective ratings versus real, I'd rather learn lighting than conduct silly (to me) measurements.

do you own your own company and your basis of making a living is with happy customers? i see about a 80-90% happy customer rate with PCB so im not saying they aren't but doing this kind of crap is probably going to drop that percentage rate a good bit, business cant be personal or else you fail, thats life!

trolls are different then unhappy customers, now their could have been a moderator who said.. please keep the personal attacks to PCB on a down low or please stop saying this is better or that is better, we are working on making our product better for the future ourselves.

this kind of move was personal and it was stupid.

just my opinion, but it could end up leading to a downfall for PCB and i dont want to say it but it really could


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shooterman
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May 06, 2009 08:47 |  #48

Cathpah wrote in post #7865580 (external link)
I wonder if he measures his available time in "effective free seconds" or "true free seconds"

:p

bw!


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dsmPhotoCompany
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May 06, 2009 08:52 |  #49

Disagree with viper on it being a good move. Why not keep the site but take more of a backseat role on the forum? It's NOT a difficult concept.

This move will definitely impact sales, no way it can't. If he's fine with that, I guess he may not be as smart as I thought.


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dsmPhotoCompany
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May 06, 2009 08:54 |  #50

I do agree on your fanboy comments, viper. It is quite silly.


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Viper97
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May 06, 2009 09:00 |  #51

neliconcept wrote in post #7867518 (external link)
do you own your own company and your basis of making a living is with happy customers? i see about a 80-90% happy customer rate with PCB so im not saying they aren't but doing this kind of crap is probably going to drop that percentage rate a good bit, business cant be personal or else you fail, thats life!

trolls are different then unhappy customers, now their could have been a moderator who said.. please keep the personal attacks to PCB on a down low or please stop saying this is better or that is better, we are working on making our product better for the future ourselves.

this kind of move was personal and it was stupid.

just my opinion, but it could end up leading to a downfall for PCB and i dont want to say it but it really could

I do own my own company, two of them in fact.

Personally, I don't think this will have an impact on sales except perhaps those that listen to others (call it the fanboy input syndrome). Those people will always make decisions on what best fits their needs using other opinions. No big problem there personally but I always investigate things based on my needs versus what fits my budget and what is also deemed quality.

Generally I don't post a lot on forums, I read a heck of a lot though and not one of my decisions is based on being a fan boy. Eh, okay I like my Canon but if I had the money I'd probably opt for something else.

Paul delivers a great product, has great support from my experience. Perhaps cutting off this forum venue is a bad idea, or perhaps not. Only time will tell. This much I do know, those that buy his products do so on recommendations from others, those that don't, do so either don't because they feel pro gear is needed (even on an amatuer level) or because they just don't like the product.

Personally, I don't know if I'd be willing to toss 20K down the drain just to find out my indoor light skills suck. That's the practical me. :D




  
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Viper97
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May 06, 2009 09:04 |  #52

Business is personal and that's why a good business succeeds. If it were impersonal well you end up being bailed out by the tax payers. I think the current state of economy indicates that for a company to succeed they have to have a great product, great support and be affordable as well as making sure the bottom line is profitable. When you take the personal out of business it generally gets replaced with 'the greed'.




  
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neliconcept
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May 06, 2009 09:08 |  #53

Viper97 wrote in post #7867658 (external link)
Business is personal and that's why a good business succeeds. If it were impersonal well you end up being bailed out by the tax payers. I think the current state of economy indicates that for a company to succeed they have to have a great product, great support and be affordable as well as making sure the bottom line is profitable. When you take the personal out of business it generally gets replaced with 'the greed'.

that i can understand, but when you cant take criticism or you attack your own customers, personal is a different level then taking an interest in your own product, or at least I view it that way.

This will impact sales a great bit, people will look at this and say, well im not sure i want to go that route even if they are cheaper, he doesnt seem to care anymore.. (he may or may not care but that is how it will be viewed)


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Viper97
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May 06, 2009 09:14 |  #54

This is for iClick.

I think Paul really likes the interaction. True it probably gets a bit much but my take on it is thus: Creative people seek feedback... we all do. How many of us post pictures? How many of us are out trying to sell our vision? How many of us feel a bit of rejection if the folks buying don't see the concept you're selling? Probably all of us at one time or another.

It is a part of that creative process to want to share. I do it, and I know most of you do too.

Taking a back seat on the forums would be to me like having someone take your pics and sell them under your name. Not ethically speaking of course but rather the act of removing oneself from the creative process. I suspect that is what Paul feels. If he has to take a back seat why bother with the whole process? Why not just concentrate on your creativity rather than waste time on those who troll?

I think most of us despise trolls. Paul would probably be in this group too.




  
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Viper97
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May 06, 2009 09:22 |  #55

neliconcept wrote in post #7867675 (external link)
that i can understand, but when you cant take criticism or you attack your own customers, personal is a different level then taking an interest in your own product, or at least I view it that way.

This will impact sales a great bit, people will look at this and say, well im not sure i want to go that route even if they are cheaper, he doesnt seem to care anymore.. (he may or may not care but that is how it will be viewed)

Let's look at the opposite side of the coin, just to play the devil's advocate here.

What if he cares so much that it's painful? If you gave birth to your child and someone said, well that's nice but couldn't you have fixed the ears? Or eyes? Or maybe the color just doesn't go with your furniture.

Creative people care deeply about what they do, I view Paul no more differently than any other creative person. I can't fault him for being human nor will I fault him for acting it.

Again, I don't think the business impact is going to be all that great. Folks may think he doesn't care but they are of the same mindset as 'trolls' sometimes in my mind. You, nor I know the man and neither of us, nor for that many possibly any of us can know the pressure he is under to deliver Einstein.

When in a pressure-cooker environment I generally note (twenty years of naval service talking here) that civility is the first aspect of humanity that tends to be thrown out the window.

Given that thought, I suspect that with Pauls drive to create Einstein they way he spec'd it and the delays in getting it out there is biting heavily into his civility.

Frankly, as I said, I'd rather have him creating then wasting time on silly little things.

Yeah, I too get a bit testy when things aren't going my way during a shot, thankfully so far it is only still subjects. In this I'm glad because I know for sure one day someone is going to grab an AB and bonk me with it but good.




  
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Wilt
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May 06, 2009 09:27 |  #56

The man's defensiveness and inability to deal well with criticisms notwithstanding, the absence of a forum does not equate to a company with poor customer service...the level of service and customer satisfaction with product support exhibited in the past by PCB is truly a standard for other companies to try to reach. Forums like POTN probably do as much for promotion of the PCB products as their own forum does! And as long as they continue to stand by their products, I doubt the vast majority of owners truly care about the demise of the forum -- in fact, they might not even be aware of its past existence. I agree with Viper about sales effect being small.

Design problems do happen where they are outside of the control of the company (such as PCB) the suppliers have problems with key components or circuit boards that are essential to the design, causing delays to the release to manufacturing. And if there are no alternatives available from other suppliers, your timetable for product release is hosed. It isn't always the product designer's problem, it can often be a supplier's component design problem. And it is often times not predictable for the timing of the resolution to the problem. I know, I've been there. Paul simply doesn't handle the public impatience -- or critique, however justified or unjustified -- well at all. A good marketeer would say something like "We are encountering unanticipated issues that need resolution. Stay tuned. " The fact that he doesn't is the indication of his own problem in not being great in handling people, in spite of his technical expertise...not the first time that has happened to a good designer turned manager! The buyers of the products of his company are affected by quality of design, and excellence in support, not by the rants of the CEO. It does not reduce the level of quality or the level of service; it is merely a bad boy CEO running the company (like they do at tens of thousands of other companies!)


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dsmPhotoCompany
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May 06, 2009 09:29 |  #57

So if he wants feedback, why kill the site?

This WILL impact sales. Countless lights and accessories were sold directly because of that forum.

And aside from that, many phitographers learned and collaberated there too. His selfish move have a negative impact on everyone.


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Viper97
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May 06, 2009 09:31 |  #58

Wilt wrote in post #7867777 (external link)
The man's defensiveness and inability to deal well with criticisms notwithstanding, the absence of a forum does not equate to a company with poor customer service...the level of service and customer satisfaction with product support exhibited in the past by PCB is truly a standard for other companies to try to reach. Forums like POTN probably do as much for promotion of the PCB products as their own forum does! And as long as they continue to stand by their products, I doubt the vast majority of owners truly care about the demise of the forum -- in fact, they might not even be aware of its past existence.

Design problems do happen where outside of the control of the company (such as PCB) the suppliers have problems with key components or circuit boards that are essential to the design, causing delays to the release to manufacturing. And if there are no alternatives available from other suppliers, your timetable for product release is hosed. It isn't always the product designer's problem, it can often be a supplier's component design problem. And it is often times not predictable for the timing of the resolution to the problem. I know, I've been there. Paul simply doesn't handle the public impatience -- or critique, however justified or unjustified -- well at all; his own problem, not the buyers of the products of his company. It does not reduce the level of quality or the level of service; it is merely a bad boy CEO running the company (like they do at tens of thousands of other companies!)

badboy? Must be his hair.:) Perfectionists tend to be a bit more intolerant I would think.




  
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eduardofrances
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May 06, 2009 09:32 |  #59

kaelaria wrote in post #7866989 (external link)
The point being - sure there was some great info being shared there (by the members) - but that ended last year. This spring it turned into not much more than a kiss-fest for mediocre hobbiest shooters.

And what's the difference with every internet forum where they share photos?, I mean I have seen my fair share of forums where even the most ugly shot gets praise because of the buddy-buddy spirit between their users, including this one too, with gear wanking too (with the classical "I'm a Profoto/ Elinchrom/ Alienbees user and I'm awesome")


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TMR ­ Design
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May 06, 2009 09:36 |  #60

eduardofrances wrote in post #7867813 (external link)
And what's the difference with every internet forum where they share photos?, I mean I have seen my fair share of forums where even the most ugly shot gets praise because of the buddy-buddy spirit between their users, including this one too.

Absolutely. There are always members that are elevated to some weird celebrity status and can do no wrong. There are also images that get posted to the Glamour & Nude forum that are nothing special and the only reason they get praise is because they are showing women with little to no clothing and the reality is that if those same women had their clothes on, the images would go unnoticed or receive criticism based on viewers actually seeing more than just T & A.


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