Approve the Cookies
This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and our Privacy Policy.
OK
Index  •   • New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Guest
New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Register to forums    Log in

 
FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 16 Jun 2009 (Tuesday) 02:56
Search threadPrev/next
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

5D Mark II Shadow Ugliness

 
smorter
Goldmember
Avatar
4,506 posts
Likes: 19
Joined Nov 2007
Location: Melbourne, Australia
     
Jun 16, 2009 02:56 |  #1

The 5D Mark II's relatively poor performance in the shadows at Low ISO (below ISO 400) has been well documented (http://diglloyd.com …shingTheBlacks/​index.html (external link)) and multiple threads on various forums

Naysayers and 5D Mark II fanboys have countered the criticism with statements like "Don't underexpose" (as if one deliberately underexposes...:rolley​es:) and other theoretically obvious, but often impractical suggestions like that.

For me, it has never been a huge problem because I largely photography at ISO 1600+, however the other night I was trying some night photography for the first time. Looking at my exposures on my Calibrated screen at home, all is good.

Today I am looking at these photos on an uncalibrated monitor at my work, and the amount of shadow noise, banding and cross hatched posterisation is incredible (look at the skyline). You might not see it with a proper monitor, but the general public without proper monitors will! The thing is, photos from camera phones don't even look this bad on my uncalibrated office monitor (Dell 2408WFP)

This is an especially bad shot, note it has not been pushed at all (no exposure adjustment whatsoever). And this is not even a 100% crop (it is the full size frame). I think most reasonable people would conclude this photo is not underexposed either.

Again, you may not see this issue if your monitor is good, but turn up the brightness a bit, and you should be able to see the crud that forms a thick cloudy region around the buildings and skyline:

IMAGE: http://dawei.zenfolio.com/img/v5/p150054349-5.jpg

I think it has been exacerbated by the flare of the Tokina 12-24, as this type of shadow noise is most evidence in the low contrast areas

I posted this basically to assert that whilst the low ISO cross hatch pattern of the 5D Mark II is often of not of practical relevance, at the same time it is for some applications of photography. Basically be careful and use Noise Reduction and darken the shadows if necessary.

I think I'll start using my 400D (Rebel XTi) for night photography from hereonin :)

Wedding Photography Melbourneexternal link
Reviews: 85LII

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)
smorter
THREAD ­ STARTER
Goldmember
Avatar
4,506 posts
Likes: 19
Joined Nov 2007
Location: Melbourne, Australia
     
Jun 16, 2009 03:06 |  #2

In Contrast, here is the 400D/Rebel XTi at ISO 200 for Night Photography

No Nasty artifacts even on this crappy uncalibrated super bright Office Monitor:

IMAGE NOT FOUND
IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
HTTP response: NOT FOUND | MIME changed to 'image/png' | Redirected to error image by ZENFOLIO PROTECTED


I guess it's just a case of picking the right tools for the job

Wedding Photography Melbourneexternal link
Reviews: 85LII

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
drdiesel1
Goldmember
Avatar
4,043 posts
Gallery: 86 photos
Likes: 1674
Joined Dec 2008
Location: NorCal
     
Jun 16, 2009 03:40 as a reply to  @ smorter's post |  #3

So your able to find two totally different lighting shots to compare...:rolleyes:


Why do you feel the need to shoot below ISO 400 at night.:confused:


Shoot the same shots and compare them so we can see apples to apples, not apples to oranges....;)

I have some night shots that don`t look anything like yours.....:lol: ISO 100.....;)

File Name IMG_0201.CR2
Camera Model Canon EOS 5D Mark II
Firmware Firmware Version 1.0.7
Shooting Date/Time 3/26/2009 6:51:46 PM
Owner's Name
Shooting Mode Manual Exposure
Tv( Shutter Speed ) 6
Av( Aperture Value ) 6.3
Metering Mode Spot Metering
ISO Speed 100
Auto ISO Speed OFF
Lens EF24-105mm f/4L IS USM
Focal Length 24.0mm
Image Size 5616x3744
Image Quality RAW
Flash Off
FE lock OFF
White Balance Mode Auto
AF Mode AI Focus AF
Picture Style Faithful
Sharpness 0
Contrast 0
Saturation 0
Color tone 0
Color Space sRGB
Long exposure noise reduction 0:Off
High ISO speed noise reduction 0:Standard
Highlight tone priority 0:Disable
Auto Lighting Optimizer 0:Standard
Peripheral illumination correction Enable
File Size 22512KB
Dust Delete Data No
Drive Mode Continuous shooting
Live View Shooting OFF


HOSTED PHOTO
please log in to view hosted photos in full size.


Nikon D810 Nikon 50F/1.4G - Nikon 70-200F/2.8II
Canon 5DMKIII - Canon 24-105F/4L

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
John_T
Goldmember
Avatar
3,098 posts
Gallery: 127 photos
Best ofs: 2
Likes: 446
Joined Jun 2003
Location: Switzerland
     
Jun 16, 2009 04:57 |  #4

I have to laugh, Snorter. On my lousy Eizo CG241W monitors, your Melbourne shot looks great and your Surfers shot looks a tad washed out.

Looking at the Melbourne shot at an angle from the side I see what appears to be a round flare from that ferriswheel ("protection" filter?), some clouds and light atmospheric light effects, but the shot is great head on, while the Surfers shot looks slightly overexposed, if anything.

...think you are pixelpeeping there a bit mate, how does the Melbourne shot print?


Canon : EOS R : 5DIV : 5DS R : 5DIII : 7DII : 40 2.8 : 50 1.4 : 35L : 85L : 100L IS Macro : 135L : 16-35L II : RF-24-105L IS : 70-200L II : 100-400L IS II : 1.4x & 2x TC III : 600EX-RT : 580EX : 430EX : G1XII : Markins Q10 & Q3T : Jobu Gimbal : Manfrotto Underware : etc...

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
smorter
THREAD ­ STARTER
Goldmember
Avatar
4,506 posts
Likes: 19
Joined Nov 2007
Location: Melbourne, Australia
     
Jun 16, 2009 09:05 |  #5

LOL...
Oh well I tried :)

John are you an expat? The flare I think was from my Tokina 12-24 lens, I had the filter off but when it was on it was even worse. No more UV filters for me at night.


Wedding Photography Melbourneexternal link
Reviews: 85LII

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
timnosenzo
Cream of the Crop
8,833 posts
Likes: 13
Joined Sep 2005
Location: CT
     
Jun 16, 2009 09:10 |  #6

smorter wrote in post #8118023 (external link)
I think I'll start using my 400D (Rebel XTi) for night photography from hereonin :)

Good idea


connecticut wedding photographer (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
timnosenzo
Cream of the Crop
8,833 posts
Likes: 13
Joined Sep 2005
Location: CT
     
Jun 16, 2009 09:15 |  #7

FWIW, my monitor at work SUCKS and I don't see anything unusual in your photos. I do see some ugly yellow/orange light reflected in the sky of the first picture, and not in the second, but that's about it.


connecticut wedding photographer (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
picturecrazy
soft-hearted weenie-boy
Avatar
8,565 posts
Likes: 718
Joined Jan 2006
Location: Alberta, CANADA
     
Jun 16, 2009 09:18 |  #8

hmmm, interesting nonetheless. I would say I haven't seen shadow noise like that even on my 40D, except when I'm shooting at 800 or above. But at ISO100? That DOES look excessive to me. I'm surprised, because my 1Ds mark III with the same sensor does not have any of these low ISO noise characteristics. Perhaps they sacrificed some low ISO performance to give it the high ISO ability it has.

I mean, people are always comparing canon's 21MP sensor to phase one or hassy sensors. And those are almost always shot at low ISO, so it would be quite a faux pas to junk up the low ISO performance.


-Lloyd
The BOUDOIR - Edmonton Intimate Boudoir Photography (external link)
Night and Day Photography - Edmonton Studio Family Baby Child Maternity Wedding Photographers (external link)
Night and Day Photography - Edmonton Headshot Photographers (external link)
Facebook (external link) | Twitter (external link) |Instagram (external link) | Gear

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
kasey
Member
191 posts
Joined Mar 2009
     
Jun 16, 2009 09:19 |  #9

Did you enable highlight tone priority?

I notice that the noise in the shadows are much worse if you have it on. Just turn it off and it should be fine.


  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
timnosenzo
Cream of the Crop
8,833 posts
Likes: 13
Joined Sep 2005
Location: CT
     
Jun 16, 2009 09:21 |  #10

kasey wrote in post #8119223 (external link)
Did you enable highlight tone priority?

Couldn't have, HTP disables ISO 100.


connecticut wedding photographer (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
bacchanal
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
5,284 posts
Likes: 22
Joined Jan 2007
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
     
Jun 16, 2009 10:25 as a reply to  @ timnosenzo's post |  #11

I can see the noise pretty clearly in the first shot (on my work monitor). I can't say that I've seen anything like that from my 5DII at low ISOs, night shots, etc.

I don't doubt that you can bring out the noise with the shadow/highlights adjustment (as in the diglloyd examples), but that kind of noise isn't visible or problematic under normal conditions or processing in my experience.

What raw converter are you using? Can you post the raw file somewhere so we can take a look at it?


Drew A. | gear | photosexternal link

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
SOT
I make up stuff about Cameras
915 posts
Joined Oct 2007
     
Jun 16, 2009 10:42 |  #12

As with much I see on the forum, people looking to talk about the best post their best shots...people looking to talk about the worst, post their worst shots...and people looking to compare the two to prove a point...post the best from their best, the worst from their worst and TADA....the point is made.


http://img81.imageshac​k.us/img81/8646/captur​e1o.jpg (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
jacobsen1
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
9,629 posts
Likes: 21
Joined Jan 2006
Location: Mt View, RI
     
Jun 16, 2009 10:49 as a reply to  @ bacchanal's post |  #13

I haven't taken any night shots yet per say, but I've been shooting a ton of sunrises with my 5Dii, all at 100, all with shadows, and all getting a healthy does of the shadows/highlight tool in PS.

what I will say is I don't see weird noise as shown in this post, but when you run the S/H tool the second time you can see some weird crap going on, especially once you websize the image. I've had to "soften" a few skies to solve it, but it's really not a big deal at all as it's nothing you can't process out and it's nothing that's noticeable my anyone looking at prints (basically you have to peep for it). Check out my posts in the 5Dii image thread if you want ~50 samples. ;)


My Gear List

my sites:
benjacobsenphoto.com (external link) | newschoolofphotography​.com (external link)
GND buyers FAQ

FOR SALE: 5Dii RRS L-bracket, 430II, 12mm macro tube PM ME!

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
John_T
Goldmember
Avatar
3,098 posts
Gallery: 127 photos
Best ofs: 2
Likes: 446
Joined Jun 2003
Location: Switzerland
     
Jun 16, 2009 11:07 |  #14

EV 2/3 might be your culprit.


Canon : EOS R : 5DIV : 5DS R : 5DIII : 7DII : 40 2.8 : 50 1.4 : 35L : 85L : 100L IS Macro : 135L : 16-35L II : RF-24-105L IS : 70-200L II : 100-400L IS II : 1.4x & 2x TC III : 600EX-RT : 580EX : 430EX : G1XII : Markins Q10 & Q3T : Jobu Gimbal : Manfrotto Underware : etc...

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
wernersl
Goldmember
Avatar
1,944 posts
Joined Jan 2006
Location: Temecula, CA
     
Jun 16, 2009 11:40 |  #15

i have a crappy monitor here at work and it looks fine to me. maybe show a 100% crop?


Shawn l Gear
Mamarazzi Photography (external link)
Wife owns the biz...I just shoot the weddings!

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

6,744 views & 0 likes for this thread
5D Mark II Shadow Ugliness
FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
AAA
x 1600
y 1600

Jump to forum...   •  Rules   •  Index   •  New posts   •  RTAT   •  'Best of'   •  Gallery   •  Gear   •  Reviews   •  Member list   •  Polls   •  Image rules   •  Search   •  Password reset

Not a member yet?
Register to forums
Registered members may log in to forums and access all the features: full search, image upload, follow forums, own gear list and ratings, likes, more forums, private messaging, thread follow, notifications, own gallery, all settings, view hosted photos, own reviews, see more and do more... and all is free. Don't be a stranger - register now and start posting!


COOKIES DISCLAIMER: This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and to our privacy policy.
Privacy policy and cookie usage info.


POWERED BY AMASS forum software 2.1forum software
version 2.1 /
code and design
by Pekka Saarinen ©
for photography-on-the.net

Latest registered member is pan21
717 guests, 278 members online
Simultaneous users record so far is 15144, that happened on Nov 22, 2018

Photography-on-the.net Digital Photography Forums is the website for photographers and all who love great photos, camera and post processing techniques, gear talk, discussion and sharing. Professionals, hobbyists, newbies and those who don't even own a camera -- all are welcome regardless of skill, favourite brand, gear, gender or age. Registering and usage is free.