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Thread started 20 Aug 2009 (Thursday) 13:10
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5d mark ii- is the AF that bad.

 
picturecrazy
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Aug 21, 2009 15:24 |  #91

jacobsen1 wrote in post #8500059 (external link)
wow, you're right, I never even looked at those points. Even when I owned a 1 series I basically use center, top, bottom, left and right. But I've also said I'd prefer this layout:

The corners are perfect for me. They're placed on or very close to the third lines, which is ideal for non-central compositions. I use the corners probably about 90% of the time, and the top and sides for most of the rest of the shots, and the centre probably around 2%. They're placed so well that it really is perfect for non-recomposing.

jacobsen1 wrote in post #8500059 (external link)
yeah, about that, I had a 40D along side my 5Dii for a month. The 5D I never used anything but center in low light. The 40D, I tried, it could see what it needed to do, but it's AF SPEED couldn't get there fast enough before my subject moved. The center point could. With the 5Dii, the outerpoints can sometimes see it, sometimes not (it all depends on if the contrast crosses the sensor in the correct direction). When the 5Dii sees contrast it can use it focuses faster than the 40D outerpoints in the same low light. When it can't it won't. Yes, that's frustrating and yes I wish we had all cross types, but I find the 5Dii better than my 40D was in very low light....

It depends on how low the light it. If we're talking like EV0 then yeah, the outer points can struggle on the 40D, but with an AF assist beam, the speed snaps right back up and I'm flying again. It wasn't quite so on the 5D, and the 30D/20D for that matter.

jacobsen1 wrote in post #8500059 (external link)
also, how do you find your D700 outer points? Especially the left/right ones that are not cross types either? I would have though they'd be lacking in low light as well?

Surprisingly, the D700 corner non-cross points work _really_ well. I know all the crosses are clustered in the centre, but the outers work so well that I could care less. But one thing I noticed is that it has an easier time locking onto different contrasts than my canons. For example, in crappy light, the D700 seems to love locking onto facial features like hair/skin transitions and faces, which is great. When it's really dark, on my canons I purposely place the AF point onto a hard contrast like someone's white shirt collar, and it does a fantastic job. But the D700 doesn't respond as well to that, which I find really strange as it's still a phase-detect system, just like canon's.

jacobsen1 wrote in post #8500059 (external link)
yeah, not sure how you're shooting, but I don't shoot more with my 5D -vs- my 40D or 1Dii. I shoot much much LESS and have a MUCH higher keeper rate. That's why I love the camera. Slightly slower (yet I can still shoot sports!) and more deliberate.

Your shooting style must meld well with the 5D; you have a great match there. I guess mine just doesn't. The thing is, the 1-series, D3, D700, D300, and even the 40D/50D somewhat, are *very* flexible and can handle many different styles of shooting (in an operational sense, not image quality) for many different types of shooters of various technical skill levels.


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Wild ­ Style
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Aug 21, 2009 15:26 |  #92

bacchanal wrote in post #8493974 (external link)
Outer points are not as snappy as on the 40D, center point is a little better on the 5DII. I'm not sure about multi-point tracking, since I always select a single point.

that is scary considering they suck on the 40d, at least in low light they do.


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jacobsen1
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Aug 21, 2009 15:56 |  #93

picturecrazy wrote in post #8500520 (external link)
The corners are perfect for me. They're placed on or very close to the third lines, which is ideal for non-central compositions. I use the corners probably about 90% of the time, and the top and sides for most of the rest of the shots, and the centre probably around 2%. They're placed so well that it really is perfect for non-recomposing.

nice. How do you switch AF points on the D700? The back controller? Is it easy to get to the corners? The joystick on the 5Dii is AWESOME for the ends and center, but terrible for the midway points....


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picturecrazy
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Aug 21, 2009 16:01 |  #94

I use the little controller pad on the back of the camera to select points. I have to say, it's harder to press accurately than even the little canon joystick nub. But you can set it so it wraps around so if you are on the far top right corner and you press -> on the pad, it takes you to the top left corner in one push. Awesome, as I mosly just swap between those two points all day. Pushing the centre will select the centre point.


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Aug 21, 2009 18:03 |  #95

bohdank wrote in post #8498421 (external link)
Your example is "fishing" since 99.999% of the people here have never and will never be on the autobahn.

I have. Both carwise and camerawise.


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apersson850
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Aug 21, 2009 18:04 |  #96

Wild Style wrote in post #8500529 (external link)
that is scary considering they suck on the 40d, at least in low light they do.

Then you should try the 400D I bought before the 40D.


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Wild ­ Style
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Aug 22, 2009 08:35 |  #97

apersson850 wrote in post #8501277 (external link)
Then you should try the 400D I bought before the 40D.

I do event photography and need great high ISO performance. I am looking at a 1d eventually. IF I stay with Canon that is.


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RDKirk
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Aug 22, 2009 09:52 |  #98

apersson850 wrote in post #8501274 (external link)
I have. Both carwise and camerawise.

That does not change the percentage of people who haven't and won't, carwise or camera wise.




  
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RDKirk
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Aug 22, 2009 09:58 as a reply to  @ RDKirk's post |  #99

There are thousands of professional photographers now shooting masterpieces with the 5D2, as they did with the 5D1. To say that any aspect of the camera is bad is absurd.

Is it the best camera for all people and all purposes? Of course not. If it were, Canon would stop making everything else and just put out the 5D2 in designer colors.

I can't see why this would come as a shock to anyone. We've always had all kinds of cameras for all kinds of purposes. I don't understand why some people treat it as a personal affront that any given camera doesn't perfectly suit their particular requirements.

So get a different camera--which, guaranteed, will also have its foibles. The company is not deliberately trying to frustrate you.




  
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ccp900
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Aug 22, 2009 20:22 |  #100

awwww....why you have to shatter the conspiracy theories?? we dont have anything else to do until canon releases a new body....:D


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anthony11
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Sep 23, 2009 15:54 |  #101

[QUOTE=amfoto1;8498595​]But, we're talking about fractions of a second. I only notice it at all with faster moving subjects, and more-so in shadowed or darker situations than in brighter light. It's irrelevant with static or slower moving subjects.

I get a fair number of missed-focus shots with my 5D2 shooting my 11mo son. At 1/200 - 1/320 shutter speed, subject motion shouldn't be an issue, right? Curiously despite what's been written above about the 50 f/1.4's focus, I get a better keeper rate than I do with my 24-105, which perceptibly moves from infinity to focus faster, but that isn't generally what one needs to do in practice.

There's a focus assist available, too, that enables additional hidden AF points. Whether or not this helps you depends upon the modes of focus you use. I tend to use the center point only and have focus separated from the shutter release button. I also tend to use AI Servo most of the time. I really can't say if focus assist helps me or not, with these settings. I would expect it to be more effective with multi-point techniques, but I'm no expert about this.

I've been told time and again by experienced shooters on this forum to disable the assist points and use one-shot focus, not servo, with the idea that the latter is for subjects that moving at a constant rate in a constant direction (which kids tend not to do).

I suspect there is some AF envy going on out there. 51 points in some other cameras seems amazing, doesn't it. You can get 45 with a 1D-series camera. But, having used that 45 point system before, I can tell you it's not all that big a deal. I tended to turn down that to 13 active points on my cameras (through a custom function... which also linked spot metering to the active point, a nice feature I miss). Anyone who uses the center point alone would also find 51 or 45 points a yawner.

A number of posts in this thread imply that the only alternative to using outlying AF points is to focus/recompose with the center point, but certainly without a reasonably large DoF this has limitations. What about *gasp* composing more widely to allow a crop to the desired composition? This is what I've found myself doing.

That said, the thing that now has me wondering about the D700's AF system is that I've recently read that it can adjust focus between shots when shooting continuous / burst -- while AFAICT the 5DII can't do this. The 5DII seems to only be able to AF for the first frame, then subsequent frames are shot at the same focus distance regardless of subject motion. This would seem to be a major advantage of the D700 when shooting anything that moves at all.

Canon's 45 point system was first introduced on the EOS-3 about 15 years ago.

Fifteen years old and they still can't put it in a $2700 body?

Canon has dropped some hints that there are new AF systems in development

It's a pretty safe bet that every manufacturer has a new AF system in development. That doesn't mean that it won't be crippled, and that doesn't help anyone today, or even this month.


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versedmb
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Sep 23, 2009 16:09 |  #102

anthony11 wrote in post #8697086 (external link)
...I've been told time and again by experienced shooters on this forum to disable the assist points and use one-shot focus, not servo, with the idea that the latter is for subjects that moving at a constant rate in a constant direction (which kids tend not to do)... .

I thought that the AF assist points were only activated in servo - am I wrong on that?

anthony11 wrote in post #8697086 (external link)
....Fifteen years old and they still can't put it in a $2700 body?...

.

Its a damn shame, isn't it? Many are hoping that the 7D's AF will find its way into a small FF Canon body, ?3D. I hope so to.


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JBF
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Sep 23, 2009 16:49 |  #103

I think the AF is OK. Not great but not crappy. Just there in the middle. And I agree with someone up above me.....I think the center point is very very good. They do need to move those stinking outer points further out. They are all still stuck in the middle.


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RDKirk
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Sep 23, 2009 18:12 as a reply to  @ JBF's post |  #104

At 1/200 - 1/320 shutter speed, subject motion shouldn't be an issue, right?

Sure it can. Easily. Camera motion as well. And it will look like poor focus or a soft lens. You'd have to be up around 1/1000 to be [B]completely[B] safe from even less-than-athletic human motion.

I've been told time and again by experienced shooters on this forum to disable the assist points and use one-shot focus, not servo, with the idea that the latter is for subjects that moving at a constant rate in a constant direction (which kids tend not to do).

That's when it works most consistently best, but you'd be better off using AI Servo with any continuously moving subject.

These are digital cameras. It costs nothing bit a few minutes of time to try out different techniques to see what actually works for you. It's not like the old days when we had to develop the film.

What about *gasp* composing more widely to allow a crop to the desired composition? This is what I've found myself doing.

With the 5D and 5D2, a lot of very high-end wedding photographers have stopped shooting verticals completely. They shoot everything horizontal and just crop out their verticals. It's that good.

The 5DII seems to only be able to AF for the first frame, then subsequent frames are shot at the same focus distance regardless of subject motion.

Not true. Both the 5D and 5DII do predictive focus. Not as fast as a 1D, but they do it. All Canon DSLRs do. That's what AI Servo is.




  
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Sep 23, 2009 18:54 |  #105

I find the AF for the center point fast and accurate. I tend to focus and recompose more. The corner once have more difficulty focusing, and I find I get better images with my fast primes (1.2, 1.4) with recomposing than using the non center points. I also find the AI servo focusing very good for center objects. An it does track focus in burst mode and refocus between shots. I do wish the non center points were at least cross type.


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