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Thread started 28 Aug 2009 (Friday) 08:43
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7D .... (pre release rumor threads )

 
sodalis
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Aug 29, 2009 09:18 |  #241

SwitchBlade wrote in post #8543670 (external link)
So by that logic will the xxxD and xxxxD cameras be rebranded as 8D and 9D ranges to prevent confusion with Nikon as well?

Not likely, for one thing it's only in Europe that they are xxxD and xxxxD, in the states they are all Rebels, and in Japan they are the KISS series. If any change was made it would probably be creating a similar brand name for the European market.

SwitchBlade wrote in post #8543670 (external link)
Can't see why they'd change the naming structure as they've used the same one since the start of the EOS range.

I don't think it's been as constant as you seem to believe. Go back and look at the pre-digital EOS cameras. Even the xxD line started as Dxx.



  
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regandarcy
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Aug 29, 2009 09:26 |  #242

sodalis wrote in post #8543637 (external link)
I find it far more likely that we've seen the end of the xxD line. I saw speculation (and it makes a lot of sense) that Canon would stop using the xxD designation due to confusion with Nikon Dxx cameras.

Despite all the 5D/5DII owners who like to insist this is a pro line, Canon has always clearly considered the 5D series to be pro-sumer, the FF equivalent of the 1.6 xxD's. The problem is the xxD's have been at the low end of the pro-sumer bracket lately, at least since Nikon raised the bar with the D300. The gap between xxD and the Rebel line has also been narrowing substantially.

If the 7D rumors pan out, it gives Canon a great way to start with a clean slate in the pro-sumer crop market. It is also a good method of "branding", instead of jumping to a new model number every 12-18 months they can just have 7D Mark II, 7D Mark III, etc. This way people know they can just look for the current 7D model to have Canons top 1.6 crop camera.

This way every camera in their lineup is now branded, 1D and 1Ds at the top of the pile, 5D and 7D in the prosumer bracket, and two tiers of Digital Rebels for the entry level. I expect the top tier Rebels will consume the spot that was held by the xxD's, competing with the Nikon Dxx line while the lower tier Rebels like the XS will stay at the rock bottom entry level and compete with the Nikon Dxxxx series.

This also leaves Nikon with a more confusing numbering scheme by comparison: Dx>Dxxx>Dxx>Dxxxx... say what?


I think your theory of "branding" the lines makes perfect sense.

But I still think there is room to make a "Sub $2,000" FF. I know you consider the 5D mark 2 a "pro-sumer" camera - and it is. But full on pros use it...and "pro-sumers" or "consumers" who want FF are pretty much FORCED to use it since it's the only kid in town.

I'm not saying thats a bad thing. The 5D mark 2 ROCKS and is fairly priced I think.

HOWEVER....Sony just announced a sub $2,000 FF and if Nikon follows suit....Canon will be left out in the cold. Do you really think they'll let this happen?

The megapixel race in the crop line has reached the absurd. People are freaking out at the prospect of the 7D being a crop with 18 mega pixels. Maybe it is. Maybe it isn't.

But it's obvious the next great war will be in the "affordable" FF market. It's the next BIG thing to push now that the megapixel race has reached it's limit.

So if you have the low end consumer crops like the 1000D, 2000D, Xsi and T1i on one end....and the new 7D prosumer crop on the other.....then it makes PERFECT sense that the GAP in between should NOT be another CROP. Rather, it should be an affordable FF. IMHO.

With Sony coming out with an "affordable" FF and Nikon probably next....it would be silly not to assume Canon has a plan to as well.

Wether they call it something new or not...I don't know. But there is definitely a void to be filled.

The 5D mark 2 is a GREAT bargain if you ask me....but it is NOT an "AFFORDABLE" FF for the average consumer looking to go FF. And THIS is going to be a GROWING NEW market. Sony sees it. Nikon will see it. And Canon will too.

FF is the new frontier in the race for Consumer dollars. Because if the 7D is a crop and is 18 mega pixels....even Canon will HAVE to admit they HAVE to find a NEW "must have" feature to push upon the masses.

FF is it my friends.




  
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snails
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Aug 29, 2009 09:28 |  #243

davidfig wrote in post #8542553 (external link)
I don't think it will be full frame for several reasons.
1. 5DMII

Are those enough reasons?

I never understood this argument. The 1Ds is full frame, but Canon makes a 5D (mkII uses the same sensor even). Market overlap obviously doesn't rule out features in the new camera from Canon.

Though, I think it would be unlikely that Canon would market 3 full frame models.

Personally, I'm hoping for APS-H (1.3)


Canon EOS 7D EOS 5D Mark II EOS 40D PowerShot G10 | Canon EF 24-105mm f/4L IS USM EF 100mm f/2.8L Macro IS USM EF 50mm f/1.4 USM EF 16-35mm f/2.8L II USM EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 | Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 EX | Canon Speedlite 270 EX Speedlite 430 EX | Sigma EF 500 DG Super

  
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regandarcy
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Aug 29, 2009 09:39 |  #244

snails wrote in post #8543802 (external link)
I never understood this argument. The 1Ds is full frame, but Canon makes a 5D (mkII uses the same sensor even). Market overlap obviously doesn't rule out features in the new camera from Canon.

Though, I think it would be unlikely that Canon would market 3 full frame models.

Personally, I'm hoping for APS-H (1.3)

I respectfully disagree. Full Frame is where it's at. It is the ultimate goal. Wasn't APS-H originally meant as a stepping stone to Full Frame?

Now that technology has advanced, it serves no purpose IMHO to go back to APS-H format.

Sony's upcoming release of their sub $2,000 FF is proof of this trend.




  
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SwitchBlade
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Aug 29, 2009 10:15 |  #245

sodalis wrote in post #8543766 (external link)
Not likely, for one thing it's only in Europe that they are xxxD and xxxxD, in the states they are all Rebels, and in Japan they are the KISS series. If any change was made it would probably be creating a similar brand name for the European market.

Can't see that helping them sell cameras only hindering myself. Both Rebel and KISS sound like retarded names for a camera, but naming anything with an English work in Japan seems to work somehow. The American branding sounds like they are selling cars, XT, XTi, XSi, etc, I'm waiting on the Canon Rebel GTi 16v. At least naming them xxxD or xxxxD it's easy for people to realise where a model is in the range.


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Mystwalker
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Aug 29, 2009 10:19 as a reply to  @ post 8541454 |  #246

When was last camera where Canon tried to really beat the competition?

I have feeling Canon is more then happy to stay a whee bit ahead of Nikon. Canon probably not worried about Sony.

Also, Canon probably looks at cost-value of overall system (camera + lens).

I was considering D700, but the costs of Nikons top lens made me change mind.




  
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downhillnews
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Aug 29, 2009 10:30 |  #247

regandarcy wrote in post #8543843 (external link)
I respectfully disagree. Full Frame is where it's at. It is the ultimate goal. Wasn't APS-H originally meant as a stepping stone to Full Frame?

Now that technology has advanced, it serves no purpose IMHO to go back to APS-H format.

Sony's upcoming release of their sub $2,000 FF is proof of this trend.

Good luck getting 10 plus FPS out of FF

I think the 1.3 would make a lot of bird and field sport people happy. While FF wedding shooters are using 1500 dollar primes the bird shoot has to go throw down 6K on a 400 F2.8! The extra 120 mm that 1.3 crop would deliver could be significant.
The camera is burning supposedly 8FPS, 19 AF, if its a FF all the people who bought 5D's just got hosed by canon!


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aridan
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Aug 29, 2009 10:45 as a reply to  @ post 8541454 |  #248

I think we are all missing one point here: On one hand some of us (including myself), believe (or would like to believe) that that poster is fake, citing that 18mpx on a crop body is too much, and therefore, it must be fake. But then again, if it's fake, who says the real thing will have 18mpx? Maybe it only be sporting 12-14mpx, at which point, a crop body would make perfect sense.

My point is, since I believe this thing is fake, I cannot believe ANY of the features listed on that poster, not just mpx numbers and the type of lens (EF-S) that is supposedly mounted on it in the picture. The real deal could be FF with only 15 AF points for all we know, or it could be FF with 20mpx, or it could be a crop with 19 AF points, and 14mpx.... the combination of features is essentially endless.

The bottom line is, if we choose to believe that this thing is fake, then we must not ignore everything else that is listed on it, not just the cropping factor. People decided it's fake (probably in part because they are looking for an affordable FF body), and therefore choose to reason their decision due to the fact above, yet at the same time, believe everything else that's listed on that poster.

My .02


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aridan
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Aug 29, 2009 10:46 |  #249

downhillnews wrote in post #8544092 (external link)
Good luck getting 10 plus FPS out of FF

I think the 1.3 would make a lot of bird and field sport people happy. While FF wedding shooters are using 1500 dollar primes the bird shoot has to go throw down 6K on a 400 F2.8! The extra 120 mm that 1.3 crop would deliver could be significant.
The camera is burning supposedly 8FPS, 19 AF, if its a FF all the people who bought 5D's just got hosed by canon!

I agree. I still think that a 1.3 crop factor is absolutely useful in certain applications, especially where high FPS and great AF are involved.


5D Mark III | 135L | 24-70L | 580EXII | Flickr | Instagram (external link)

  
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echo
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Aug 29, 2009 11:22 |  #250

Made me laugh seeing the 'info' on the wine bottle pic in your smugmug gallery :)

Would be nice if it really was the case!


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Jman13
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Aug 29, 2009 11:25 as a reply to  @ post 8540366 |  #251

Diffraction is the same for any given print size for the same enlargement. So, if you print your 18MP APS-C shot, without cropping, at 12x18, you'll have the exact same amount of blur due to diffraction as you would with a 10 MP APS-C print at 12x18. The only time the smaller pixel pitch will result in any more real blur is at the 100% level, but who cares? At least for me, I care about the final print...in that case, diffraction only depends on sensor size, since you have to enlarge smaller sensors more to make the same size print.

And you're right...this is not a landscape cam. Frankly, if you're buying a new pro-level body for landscape use, the 5D II is significantly better for that purpose.


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basroil
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Aug 29, 2009 12:29 |  #252

backslash wrote in post #8541067 (external link)
From the source (external link):
IMAGE NOT FOUND
HTTP response: NOT FOUND | MIME changed to 'image/png'

Makes perfect sense considering there's reports of a 1X-85mm f3.5-5.6 IS to replace the older 17-85IS... and the badge is at the right level too


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davidfig
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Aug 29, 2009 13:32 |  #253

regandarcy wrote in post #8543456 (external link)
Why would the fact that the D700 doesn't have video be a good reason? In fact, It'd be a GREAT reason as Canon would then ONE UP Nikon and make the D700 look "lesser than" the new Canon 7D. And isn't that the WHOLE point of competition? :-)

The point is that canon already has the FF 5DMII. Which has video and sells at the D700 price point. They have the 50D which sells under the D300s price point, but doesn't have the D300s features. They would want D300s features to compete, not 5D features.

Think of this another way. Everyone was all keyed into the new 5D rumors. Saying it was going to be FF, 21pt AF, 5fps, 21MP, and video. I laughed as this would be essentially a 1DsMII killer. So what we got was a FF, 7pt AF machine. Thus not cannibalizing from the 1Ds line. A FF 7D would cannibalize the 5D market. Not something Canon is willing to do. Canon must make its decission based on its line and Nikon's.

So the only option I see is a crop body with more AF points and video. It competes with D300s and does not cannibalize the 5D MII.


5D | 17-40L | Tammy 28-75 2.8 | 28-135 | 50/1.8 | 85/1.8 | Sony A6000 2-Lens Kit | SEL35 1.8 | EF 50 1.8 on NEX as my 75mm 1.8

  
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johnboy00
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Aug 29, 2009 13:39 |  #254

7D front/back on fredmiranda.com - real or fake?

Looks real to me.

IMAGE NOT FOUND
IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
HTTP response: 404 | MIME changed to 'text/html' | Byte size: ZERO



  
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2004ep3hatch
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Aug 29, 2009 13:42 as a reply to  @ johnboy00's post |  #255

looks real to me and people thinking its a crop camera could be right seeing its using ef-s lenses?


Canon EOSR, RF24-70 F2.8L IS, RF70-200 F2.8L IS,Sigma 150-600MM-C F5.6-6.3

  
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7D .... (pre release rumor threads )
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