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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre Sports Talk 
Thread started 29 Sep 2009 (Tuesday) 10:21
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Stopping one from taking pictures with pro equipment

 
jamesb84
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Oct 07, 2009 08:33 |  #46

PMCphotography wrote in post #8776510 (external link)
I'm not sure if the last post was directed at me or not, but I'm not trying to take anyone's business away... Only to take some snaps of my kids at the game. That's it.

No, not at all...I was simply using your example about pro's being worried about other togs in the stand.

There are all sorts of people who try and sell photos from the stands on various citizen journalism sites, such as Scoopt or Citizenside. That is very much against the licensing conditions set out by the FA and Premier League. I know a number of togs who've kicked up a massive fuss about it to the Football Data Co and have even gone so far as to say "well, they were sat directly behind me at that game, next time i'm there i'll confront them (this has happened, and the fan was asked to leave).

THAT is not on...i couldnt care less if you're there to take photos of the day, and pics of you and your friends. But, just dont try and sell them afterwards in the hope of making a quick £$


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eigga
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Oct 07, 2009 08:55 |  #47

I guess things are just different in Australia, best of luck to you.


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PMCphotography
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Oct 07, 2009 14:58 |  #48

That was sort of my point too James. Even if a non-credentialed photog took some great pics from the stands, the media, the sports organizers or the stadium wouldn't go anywhere them. If you want to sell your pics, get credentialed.

I don't know how much they think they'd make on a citizen site anyway. Who would buy them?


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PMCphotography
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Oct 07, 2009 15:00 |  #49

PixelMagic wrote in post #8776911 (external link)
You have both a wife and a fiancee?

AWESOME!!!

I'm not that great a multi tasker. Lol.

Were engaged but I usually refer to her as my wife for some reason. Occasionally "fiancee" pops out.


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digirebelva
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Oct 07, 2009 20:05 |  #50

PMCphotography wrote in post #8779332 (external link)
I'm not that great a multi tasker. Lol.

Were engaged but I usually refer to her as my wife for some reason. Occasionally "fiancee" pops out.

True you are a photog...you wouldnt have enough money to afford both...:D


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PMCphotography
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Oct 07, 2009 21:27 |  #51

Hehe...

Nope :)


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jamesb84
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Oct 08, 2009 03:50 |  #52

PMCphotography wrote in post #8779317 (external link)
That was sort of my point too James. Even if a non-credentialed photog took some great pics from the stands, the media, the sports organizers or the stadium wouldn't go anywhere them. If you want to sell your pics, get credentialed.

I don't know how much they think they'd make on a citizen site anyway. Who would buy them?

I know Scoopt is owned by Getty so it might be a case of "if I can show how great my shots from the stand are, they might offer me a job" or (perhaps more likely) it's simply ignorance of the licensing issues.

I went back to my parents town recently, and was accosted in the pub several times by old schoolmates who said "do you have to buy a ticket to get in" and "are you sitting in the stand"

I reckon it might just be that people sat in the stands, unless they frequent places such as POTN just have no idea about the licensing, media accreditation or such issues and think they can make a fast buck!


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DONKEYTROLL
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Oct 08, 2009 04:09 |  #53

bensherman2 wrote in post #8727036 (external link)
I think you find that 99% of uk soccer fans aren't hooligans and don't take kindly from such remarks

Agreed, I find that the OP comment was extremely offensive and it should be removed.


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Hinson
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Oct 13, 2009 11:00 as a reply to  @ post 8776510 |  #54

...but I'm not trying to take anyone's business away... Only to take some snaps of my kids at the game. That's it.

I know this subject is being beaten to death but just had to throw in my .02 worth.

Statements such as the above show why this is such a problem. As someone who did kids sports for a number of years, I can sympathize with the parent who 'just wants to take some snaps of their kids' but at the same time, I'm not with my kids today, I'm out here trying to earn a living. And as one poster put it, I'll do whatever I can to protect my profits.

Now, if there is no contracted photographer, then no problem. However, whenever we had a school or league contract, it stated that there were to be no other photos taken. We offered numerous packages including a digital image for those who wanted to email family and friends in distant areas. We didn't shoot action so during the game, they could shoot whatever they wished. When we were doing individual and group photos, we refused to allow anyone to photograph the kids. We set up so that it was almost impossible for a parent to get a decent shot of the individual or group.

When necessary, one of the assistants would actually stand between the parent w/camera and the team. Sounds harsh doesn't it? Well, if that parent wanted a photo, they could purchase it from us. We had parents who asked us if we could move over so they could get a shot. The answer was always "no, but when we are finished you may take the child/team out of the area and take all the photos you wish." These were always parents who bought nothing but expected us to pose little johnny/mary or his/her team and then step back and let them shoot. No way!

As for the 'pro camera' question, I like the one answer. It ain't the camera it's the guy/gal behind the camera that is the pro.


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LW ­ Dail
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Oct 13, 2009 11:23 as a reply to  @ Hinson's post |  #55

I chuckle at this. A bunch of us went to see Elvis impersonators at a local casino (don't laugh, that's big fun in Tulsa!).

I had my Rebel XTi with me, cuz it's a fun 'party' camera. I was taking pics of the audience (these women were crying for Elvis impersonators singing 'Falling in Love with You.") It was so odd, I had to shoot some pics.

Security comes over to tell me I can't shoot. I point to the 10ss of P&S and cell phones and ask why not? She says there's no photography.

Really?!

I put the camera back in my purse without argument (the whole arguing with idiots thing!).

I just don't carry anything that looks 'important,' 'expensive,' or 'professional' and have never had an issue since.

I just shake my head and laugh!


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Sibil
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Oct 13, 2009 11:26 |  #56

Hinson wrote in post #8813368 (external link)
We offered numerous packages including a digital image for those who wanted to email family and friends in distant areas.



From my experience, the official photographers I have dealt with in sports and school functions do not offer digital version for purchase; only prints that, IMHO, leave a lot to be desired. This is one reason I find myself competing with the official photographers to get shots of my kids, especially in school functions. I’ll spare no expense in gear/effort to get the shots I want, especially that more often than not, I end up with no shots of my kids if I count on the ‘official’ photographer.

Hinson wrote in post #8813368 (external link)
When necessary, one of the assistants would actually stand between the parent w/camera and the team. Sounds harsh doesn't it?



I have been on the other side of the fence when a staffer yelled at me to put my camera away. I was standing in the parking lot waiting for the kids to leave the T&I fenced area so I could snap a couple of candid shots of the team, not trying to get a duplicate of the T&I shots. I couldn’t even see the area that was set up for that purpose. Nevertheless, a staffer walked all the way into the parking lot to yell at me. I thought it was excessive, given that I was using a Lumix FZ50 (super-zoom P&S) at the time. Nothing that remotely looked like pro gear.




  
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eigga
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Oct 13, 2009 14:15 |  #57

Such a frustrating topic, I dont think anyone posting here has done this but why would someone show up to a portrait session and take their own pictures?? Thats like going to get your hair cut and just using their stuff and doing it yourself, if people think (or know) they can do better then just do it on your own time.

As for "knowing" you can take better pictures at an event - I certianly understand and I am forced to buy pictures of a lesser quality than I like but unlike you I dont "compete with the official photographers" since I understand there is A LOT more to being the offical photog than just taking pictures. It takes hours of organization, countless phone calls and emails with the organization, and most of all $$ to have a contract with an event or school.

IMO opinion this whole "argument" centers around respect for the professional. AND by professional I mean the person under contract to do a job. I figure most professionals deserve respect until they have done something wrong... and if thats the case then the appropriate thing to do is talk to the organization about getting someone new (this is exactly how I got started), not just doing it better yourself despite the contract.

Now - no contract then its all good,do as you wish respecting the events rules.


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PMCphotography
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Oct 13, 2009 17:53 |  #58

Hinson wrote in post #8813368 (external link)
I know this subject is being beaten to death but just had to throw in my .02 worth.

Statements such as the above show why this is such a problem. As someone who did kids sports for a number of years, I can sympathize with the parent who 'just wants to take some snaps of their kids' but at the same time, I'm not with my kids today, I'm out here trying to earn a living. And as one poster put it, I'll do whatever I can to protect my profits.

Now, if there is no contracted photographer, then no problem. However, whenever we had a school or league contract, it stated that there were to be no other photos taken. We offered numerous packages including a digital image for those who wanted to email family and friends in distant areas. We didn't shoot action so during the game, they could shoot whatever they wished. When we were doing individual and group photos, we refused to allow anyone to photograph the kids. We set up so that it was almost impossible for a parent to get a decent shot of the individual or group.

When necessary, one of the assistants would actually stand between the parent w/camera and the team. Sounds harsh doesn't it? Well, if that parent wanted a photo, they could purchase it from us. We had parents who asked us if we could move over so they could get a shot. The answer was always "no, but when we are finished you may take the child/team out of the area and take all the photos you wish." These were always parents who bought nothing but expected us to pose little johnny/mary or his/her team and then step back and let them shoot. No way!

As for the 'pro camera' question, I like the one answer. It ain't the camera it's the guy/gal behind the camera that is the pro.

No, I totally get that. The story i told was about going into a stadium for a professional Australian Rules Football game. Not a little league game.


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PMCphotography
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Oct 13, 2009 17:58 |  #59

Sibil wrote in post #8813534 (external link)
From my experience, the official photographers I have dealt with in sports and school functions do not offer digital version for purchase; only prints that, IMHO, leave a lot to be desired. This is one reason I find myself competing with the official photographers to get shots of my kids, especially in school functions. I’ll spare no expense in gear/effort to get the shots I want, especially that more often than not, I end up with no shots of my kids if I count on the ‘official’ photographer.

I offer a digital download package for any Kids' triathlon or community event that I do. FUnny thing is, no one buys them! They all want prints!


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